12 ms·

Drowning Doesn’t Look Like Drowning (2010)

217 points by dsr12 8y ago

bradknowles 8y ago
The linked article is from 2010, but I think it’s still as good and valid today as it was then. Thanks!
dang 8y ago
Quite a few previous discussions: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Drowning%20Doesn%E2%80%99t%20Look%20Like%20Drowning%20points%3E10&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Drowning%20Doesn%E2%80%99t%20L...
- jcims 8y ago
  Speaking as a member of the community I'm good with this one reposting every summer. Super important IMHO.
  - amingilani 8y ago
    I second this. I've been on HN for years and I missed the previous postings.
  - organsnyder 8y ago
    Agreed. I've seen this come around every summer for the past few years, and I don't mind reading it again (especially considering I'm up at the cottage right now with our young children).
  - jazoom 8y ago
    I'm also okay with it but I think this was posted about 6 or so weeks ago.
ColinWright 8y ago
Site unavailable due to capacity problems. However, as others have pointed out, this (or similar) articles have been submitted and discussed many, many times. That doesn't make it interesting or unimportant, and I respectfully suggest people should read some of them. In particular - READ THIS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1492894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1492894 Added in edit: This has been discussed more often than the search given by dang suggests. Here are some, with the number of comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16978769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16978769 (13) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16939063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16939063 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14313067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14313067 (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11667755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11667755 (74) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11658854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11658854 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9947237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9947237 (40) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9685842 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9685842 (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7581288 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7581288 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5856312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5856312 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5822917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5822917 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4028232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4028232 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2393594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2393594 (10 (mostly meta)) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1647662 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1647662 (2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1492835 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1492835 (127)
- forapurpose 8y ago
  > In particular - READ THIS In fact, do NOT read it. Do not take advice on HN (or any Internet forum) about situations involving safety; people on the Internet don't know what they are talking about, even when they sound competent or claim credentials (do I really need to say that?) and someone could get seriously hurt or killed. Unless you are an expert, you can't tell the good advice from the bad; find an authoritative source. And in fact, if you read further down the linked thread, someone asked an apparent professional about the advice; they did not give a favorable response and called part of it dangerous.
  - JshWright 8y ago
    In this case the advise is spot on (i.e. don't get within arms reach of someone who is drowning unless you know what you're doing). I think warning people that the situation is more dangerous than it appears is consistent with your advice that you should rely on experts when possible. At the risk of "claiming credentials", I'm a paramedic with swift-water rescue training.
    - forapurpose 8y ago
      In my experience, responsible professionals do not give free Internet advice in situations with potentially serious consequences. Serious situations require very carefully considered advice; you could leave something out or misstate something; it could be misconstrued - and someone dies. For much less dire situations, I don't give professional advice without giving it far more care than I give an HN comment. Authoritative sources are great. They probably bring to bear far more expertise than HN commenters, they've already performed all that careful consideration, and in many cases they've also tested how the information will be understood. Again, misunderstandings can be deadly. The proper response is not 'here's what to do'; it's 'here's a link to an excellent authoritative source'.
      - JshWright 8y ago
        I agree with your general premise. I disagree with your application of that premise here. In this case the comment is providing a warning that the situation is more dangerous than it appears. Someone reading that comment would be more likely to act conservatively, resulting in fewer deaths.
vortico 8y ago
Archive.org mirror https://web.archive.org/web/20180528043231/http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180528043231/http://mariovitto...
rodrigocoelho 8y ago
Also, this video: Can you spot the drowning child? https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/69540825/can-you-spot-the-drowning-child https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/69540825/can-yo...
- eksemplar 8y ago
  This video actually shows the Hollywood styled drowning. It can look a lot different from this, and I suspect that’s what the original article is about, though it’s currently unavailable so who knows. People who are drowning can look like they are just floating, or sitting in the water, with their heads barely sticking out and no splashing, yelling or any sort of alarming thing going on. The reason for this is that they are dog paddling in an upright position, but rarely get their mouths and noses out of the water. They can be in this situation for quite a while before they actually drown, with no real visible signs. We’re a costal nation(Denmark) and each year tourists drown. It’s especially tragic when children drown 10-15 meters from their parents that never noticed something was wrong. If anyone especially children is dead quiet in the water you definitely have to check if they are ok.
  - Merad 8y ago
    TFA was about instinctive drowning response [1], which seems (to my amateur eye) to be what’s happening in that video. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinctive_drowning_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinctive_drowning_response
dogruck 8y ago
Also, most people don’t know how to swim. When you ask a person if they know how to swim, when you’re headed to the beach, you’ll get: 1 Sometimes: no way, I stay out of the water 2 Usually: uh, sure, yup, I can swim 3 Rarely: Totally, I used to be on a team. My favorite follow up to #2 is “could you swim 4 laps in a pool without ever touching the bottom or stopping to take a break? That usually prompts a “what are you crazy, no way that’s super hard” response. Then I inform the person that they do not know how to swim, and that they should be extra careful.
- meschi 8y ago
  You are implying that only competitive sport swimmers can actually swim.
  - andrewksl 8y ago
    4 laps at what could be a leisurely pace hardly qualifies as competitive swimming.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - dfee 8y ago
    I’d say that’s a segment of the population who can swim. But outside those who swam on a team for more than a year (I was a competitive swimmers for more than a decade), and of course lifeguarded through my high school years, I’ve found it very rare for people who have less than a few hundred hours experience in a pool (in a non-play way) to understand their safety limits.
  - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
    Not really. It's more of a sign that the person knows how to swim efficiently, which I suspect is inversely related to risk of drowning. Case in point: go to a public swimming pool (YMCA, etc.) when old people are swimming laps. You'll see people who are clearly not athletic swim for many tens of minutes without taking a break.
  - 8y ago
openfuture 8y ago
I don't know how to swim and have almost drowned a few times (~8) from not really respecting that I can't swim effectively (actually from reading the top link from ColinWright I am tempted to do a "AskHN: Best way to learn how to swim as an adult?" there seems to be a lot of knowledge here on this subject) One of those times was particularly bad and someone had to come in and rescue me. I had gone to a swimming pool the day before and done a couple of strokes and thought to myself "this isn't too bad" but then we went to this cliff next to a flooded canyon where people like to jump into the water (it's very deep but only around 10 meters across and you have to swim across to get to the cliff). I wanted to be safe so I started by going parallel to the bank to be sure I could do it but after doing a stroke and keeping my head out of water I thought "what the hell I'll go for it" and turned while swimming and started going across. With no experience and a very out of my element I was rushing and basically managed to exhaust myself when I was half way (I could have gotten to that same spot in one kick from the bank probably). It was a very strange feeling I couldn't move at all! My body was completely exhausted and I couldn't summon an ounce of energy so I started to drown. The issue was that no one really took it seriously and my friend who was standing on the other side and had said he'd help me if anything went wrong was just looking at me like "come on.." so gradually my panic rose and rose until my face communicated sufficient terror for him to realize that I was going to die. The problem of course is when you are really panicked this climbing response (that I just learned about today by reading ColinWrights top link in this thread) kicks in and you become dangerous. I did know that panicking people tend to kill their would-be saviors in their panic but I wasn't really thinking.. Anyway he jumps in and I bear hug him instantly and we both start drowning, except I realize we're going to die and go completely limp just keeping my hand on his shoulder and my eyes open. He manages a stroke or two and then I do the climbing response and pull on his shoulder and manage to grab a rock and pull on it and boom I'm up and standing on the other side wheezing and coughing and with a crazy headache. It's very important to start saving at first signs of trouble and not waiting for signals of distress, by then people have already lost their rationality. I think what saved me is just how mentally prepared I was for this exact scenario and also having experienced it before but with no one to help me (needing to breath out all air and walk on the bottom of the ocean / pool to find something to grab / float with). Being careful about not breathing in water (better to suffocate) and having done a bunch of yoga was also useful. My biggest lesson was that swimming isn't binary, anyone can swim, it's more about the gradual efficiency improvements you make. Since then I've made some progress in learning to relax again and now I know how to float on my back but I'd like to buy a buoy for open water swimming and start practicing in the ocean. I'd love it if anyone can inform me of the sanity of that plan or give me good resources and advice.
scarface74 8y ago
And don't forget about "Dry Drowning". It can happen days after someone is rescued from actually drowning.... http://www.livescience.com/59444-dry-drowning.html http://www.livescience.com/59444-dry-drowning.html
- timdoug 8y ago
  "Dry drowning is a term that has never had an accepted medical definition, and that is currently medically discredited." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning#Dry_drowning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning#Dry_drowning
  - scarface74 8y ago
    In the context of the article "drowning doesn't look like drowning". Drowning a week after you have been submerged in water doesn't "look like drowning". The definition may not be medically accepted but the concept is well documented. From the original article. Dry drowning occurs when, after being submerged in water, a person's vocal cords experience a spasm and close, making it difficult to breathe, said Dr. Mike Patrick, an emergency-medicine physician at Nationwide Children's Hospital in Columbus, Ohio, who was not involved in the boy's care. When this happens, the body's response is to send fluid to the lungs to try to open up the vocal cords. But this can lead to excess fluid in the lungs — a condition called pulmonary edema. Symptoms of dry drowning usually start within an hour after a person is submerged in water, Patrick said.
watmough 8y ago
Yeah, my 7 y/o got a bit off her depth in a hotel pool once and was doing this. In fact she did it like 3 times, and I had to rescue her each time. So it's really stuck with me that people drown 'very quietly', and to stay alert whenever my children are in water.
hopeless 8y ago
Practice spotting someone drowning from real videos of public swimming pools: http://spotthedrowningchild.com/ http://spotthedrowningchild.com/ It's good but not perfect since the lifeguard thankfully rescues them before they drown but it's still a good exercise. I can do this exercise fairly reliably but I'm not perfect either. A few years ago I saved a man from drowning _but_ I very very nearly didn't: https://medium.com/@ideasasylum/i-saved-a-man-from-drowning-today-1994833cff4 https://medium.com/@ideasasylum/i-saved-a-man-from-drowning-...
- devit 8y ago
  Seems insane to allow non-swimmers to use floating tubes that can flip over without also wearing personal flotation devices. Even with a lifeguard, what if multiple people need saving at the same time, or the lifeguard just doesn't notice it after a long time with no interventions require.
  - tgb 8y ago
    I think you're jumping to conclusions that they are non-swimmers.
    - christophilus 8y ago
      Not the OP, and I've only watched ~8 of those videos, but it seems pretty safe to say they are non-swimmers. Is there a reason you think I'm jumping to that conclusion?
      - tgb 8y ago
        On what basis do you assume they are non-swimmers? The video doesn't show them swimming - well sure they were in a tube of course it doesn't show them swimming. Just because you can swim fine doesn't mean you will do so when you flip unexpectedly out of a tube when the panic response takes over. One (the first one I saw when opening it again) where the drowner is never using a float: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFgOBjk860 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFgOBjk860 The second one I saw he appears to intentionally be leaving the float to go swim so at least thinks he is capable of swimming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NycwxaU4GPw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NycwxaU4GPw And for completeness, the third one I saw: are you seriously suggesting that you can judge someone's swimming ability from her response after this flip? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STY8N-33-tQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STY8N-33-tQ
danso 8y ago
Related: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child (1215 upvotes, 384 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9962185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9962185
yodsanklai 8y ago
I witnessed once a guy drowning in the sea. There were signs all over the beach that it was very dangerous to swim there at that time of the year. The sea was a bit rough but the waves weren't that impressive. Nonetheless, a guy went for a dip although not very far in the sea, maybe waist-level. Eventually, he realized he wasn't able to go back to the beach, got carried by the current and called for help. Fortunately, he was rescued by a surfer. I certainly wouldn't have gone in the sea considering all the warnings, but at the same time, I didn't really think the guy was in danger while being so close to the beach. I think it was a good lesson.
- tetha 8y ago
  A friend of mine is an experienced sailor and kayak driver. As he put it: A bad current moves several tons of water per minute. That small wave has more weight than you do, even on a small space. Doesn't matter if you're 300 pound muscle or 400 pound fat, you go where the current goes.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    Surely what matters is whether you can swim faster than the current, not the weight or otherwise of anything.
    - abraae 8y ago
      Not just faster, but significantly faster. If the current is 3 mph, and you can swim at 4 mph, then you will be swimming for a very long time at the effective 1 mph to get back to shore. And if on the way you need to stop for even a minute's rest, you'll lose 4 minutes worth of your hard-won progress.
- js2 8y ago
  That sounds like a rip current. A rip current moves out to sea faster than you can swim, but they typically aren’t very wide. The key is to swim parallel to the shore till you’re out of the current, then you can swim in. It can be scary though and obviously panicking is about the worst thing you can do. People will often try to swim against the current till they tire and then they unfortunately may drown. You can sometimes identify a rip current from the beach as a stream of bubbles/whitewash moving out to sea by they are often hard to spot.
forkLding 8y ago
Was a junior lifeguard a long time ago at university pool, not sure if they still do this but do lifeguards still have flotation device and go into kicking position when approaching drowning people?
diehunde 8y ago
There's an excellent episode on stuff you should know podcast about drowning. They talked about this and several other interesting facts about drowning. Link: https://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/how-drowning-works.htm https://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/how-drowning-wor...
yzmtf2008 8y ago
What’s even more dangerous is that children can get secondary drowning if they sucked water into their lung [0]. They would often just look like they’re tired, like any other child after the beach. But it can be fatal if not treated properly. [0]: http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-health/health-conditions-library/childrens-health/Pages/secondary-drowning.aspx http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-hea...

217 points by dsr12 8y ago

The linked article is from 2010, but I think it’s still as good and valid today as it was then. Thanks!

dang 8y ago

Quite a few previous discussions: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Drowning%20Doesn%E2%80%99t%20Look%20Like%20Drowning%20points%3E10&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Drowning%20Doesn%E2%80%99t%20L...

jcims 8y ago
Speaking as a member of the community I'm good with this one reposting every summer. Super important IMHO.
- amingilani 8y ago
  I second this. I've been on HN for years and I missed the previous postings.
- organsnyder 8y ago
  Agreed. I've seen this come around every summer for the past few years, and I don't mind reading it again (especially considering I'm up at the cottage right now with our young children).
- jazoom 8y ago
  I'm also okay with it but I think this was posted about 6 or so weeks ago.

ColinWright 8y ago

Site unavailable due to capacity problems. However, as others have pointed out, this (or similar) articles have been submitted and discussed many, many times. That doesn't make it interesting or unimportant, and I respectfully suggest people should read some of them. In particular - READ THIS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1492894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1492894 Added in edit: This has been discussed more often than the search given by dang suggests. Here are some, with the number of comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16978769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16978769 (13) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16939063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16939063 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14313067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14313067 (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11667755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11667755 (74) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11658854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11658854 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9947237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9947237 (40) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9685842 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9685842 (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7581288 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7581288 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5856312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5856312 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5822917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5822917 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4028232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4028232 (0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2393594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2393594 (10 (mostly meta)) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1647662 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1647662 (2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1492835 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1492835 (127)

forapurpose 8y ago
> In particular - READ THIS In fact, do NOT read it. Do not take advice on HN (or any Internet forum) about situations involving safety; people on the Internet don't know what they are talking about, even when they sound competent or claim credentials (do I really need to say that?) and someone could get seriously hurt or killed. Unless you are an expert, you can't tell the good advice from the bad; find an authoritative source. And in fact, if you read further down the linked thread, someone asked an apparent professional about the advice; they did not give a favorable response and called part of it dangerous.
- JshWright 8y ago
  In this case the advise is spot on (i.e. don't get within arms reach of someone who is drowning unless you know what you're doing). I think warning people that the situation is more dangerous than it appears is consistent with your advice that you should rely on experts when possible. At the risk of "claiming credentials", I'm a paramedic with swift-water rescue training.
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    In my experience, responsible professionals do not give free Internet advice in situations with potentially serious consequences. Serious situations require very carefully considered advice; you could leave something out or misstate something; it could be misconstrued - and someone dies. For much less dire situations, I don't give professional advice without giving it far more care than I give an HN comment. Authoritative sources are great. They probably bring to bear far more expertise than HN commenters, they've already performed all that careful consideration, and in many cases they've also tested how the information will be understood. Again, misunderstandings can be deadly. The proper response is not 'here's what to do'; it's 'here's a link to an excellent authoritative source'.
    - JshWright 8y ago
      I agree with your general premise. I disagree with your application of that premise here. In this case the comment is providing a warning that the situation is more dangerous than it appears. Someone reading that comment would be more likely to act conservatively, resulting in fewer deaths.

vortico 8y ago

Archive.org mirror https://web.archive.org/web/20180528043231/http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180528043231/http://mariovitto...

rodrigocoelho 8y ago

Also, this video: Can you spot the drowning child? https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/69540825/can-you-spot-the-drowning-child https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/69540825/can-yo...

eksemplar 8y ago
This video actually shows the Hollywood styled drowning. It can look a lot different from this, and I suspect that’s what the original article is about, though it’s currently unavailable so who knows. People who are drowning can look like they are just floating, or sitting in the water, with their heads barely sticking out and no splashing, yelling or any sort of alarming thing going on. The reason for this is that they are dog paddling in an upright position, but rarely get their mouths and noses out of the water. They can be in this situation for quite a while before they actually drown, with no real visible signs. We’re a costal nation(Denmark) and each year tourists drown. It’s especially tragic when children drown 10-15 meters from their parents that never noticed something was wrong. If anyone especially children is dead quiet in the water you definitely have to check if they are ok.
- Merad 8y ago
  TFA was about instinctive drowning response [1], which seems (to my amateur eye) to be what’s happening in that video. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinctive_drowning_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinctive_drowning_response

dogruck 8y ago

Also, most people don’t know how to swim. When you ask a person if they know how to swim, when you’re headed to the beach, you’ll get: 1 Sometimes: no way, I stay out of the water 2 Usually: uh, sure, yup, I can swim 3 Rarely: Totally, I used to be on a team. My favorite follow up to #2 is “could you swim 4 laps in a pool without ever touching the bottom or stopping to take a break? That usually prompts a “what are you crazy, no way that’s super hard” response. Then I inform the person that they do not know how to swim, and that they should be extra careful.

meschi 8y ago
You are implying that only competitive sport swimmers can actually swim.
- andrewksl 8y ago
  4 laps at what could be a leisurely pace hardly qualifies as competitive swimming.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dfee 8y ago
  I’d say that’s a segment of the population who can swim. But outside those who swam on a team for more than a year (I was a competitive swimmers for more than a decade), and of course lifeguarded through my high school years, I’ve found it very rare for people who have less than a few hundred hours experience in a pool (in a non-play way) to understand their safety limits.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  Not really. It's more of a sign that the person knows how to swim efficiently, which I suspect is inversely related to risk of drowning. Case in point: go to a public swimming pool (YMCA, etc.) when old people are swimming laps. You'll see people who are clearly not athletic swim for many tens of minutes without taking a break.
- 8y ago

openfuture 8y ago

I don't know how to swim and have almost drowned a few times (~8) from not really respecting that I can't swim effectively (actually from reading the top link from ColinWright I am tempted to do a "AskHN: Best way to learn how to swim as an adult?" there seems to be a lot of knowledge here on this subject) One of those times was particularly bad and someone had to come in and rescue me. I had gone to a swimming pool the day before and done a couple of strokes and thought to myself "this isn't too bad" but then we went to this cliff next to a flooded canyon where people like to jump into the water (it's very deep but only around 10 meters across and you have to swim across to get to the cliff). I wanted to be safe so I started by going parallel to the bank to be sure I could do it but after doing a stroke and keeping my head out of water I thought "what the hell I'll go for it" and turned while swimming and started going across. With no experience and a very out of my element I was rushing and basically managed to exhaust myself when I was half way (I could have gotten to that same spot in one kick from the bank probably). It was a very strange feeling I couldn't move at all! My body was completely exhausted and I couldn't summon an ounce of energy so I started to drown. The issue was that no one really took it seriously and my friend who was standing on the other side and had said he'd help me if anything went wrong was just looking at me like "come on.." so gradually my panic rose and rose until my face communicated sufficient terror for him to realize that I was going to die. The problem of course is when you are really panicked this climbing response (that I just learned about today by reading ColinWrights top link in this thread) kicks in and you become dangerous. I did know that panicking people tend to kill their would-be saviors in their panic but I wasn't really thinking.. Anyway he jumps in and I bear hug him instantly and we both start drowning, except I realize we're going to die and go completely limp just keeping my hand on his shoulder and my eyes open. He manages a stroke or two and then I do the climbing response and pull on his shoulder and manage to grab a rock and pull on it and boom I'm up and standing on the other side wheezing and coughing and with a crazy headache. It's very important to start saving at first signs of trouble and not waiting for signals of distress, by then people have already lost their rationality. I think what saved me is just how mentally prepared I was for this exact scenario and also having experienced it before but with no one to help me (needing to breath out all air and walk on the bottom of the ocean / pool to find something to grab / float with). Being careful about not breathing in water (better to suffocate) and having done a bunch of yoga was also useful. My biggest lesson was that swimming isn't binary, anyone can swim, it's more about the gradual efficiency improvements you make. Since then I've made some progress in learning to relax again and now I know how to float on my back but I'd like to buy a buoy for open water swimming and start practicing in the ocean. I'd love it if anyone can inform me of the sanity of that plan or give me good resources and advice.

scarface74 8y ago

And don't forget about "Dry Drowning". It can happen days after someone is rescued from actually drowning.... http://www.livescience.com/59444-dry-drowning.html http://www.livescience.com/59444-dry-drowning.html

timdoug 8y ago
"Dry drowning is a term that has never had an accepted medical definition, and that is currently medically discredited." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning#Dry_drowning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning#Dry_drowning
- scarface74 8y ago
  In the context of the article "drowning doesn't look like drowning". Drowning a week after you have been submerged in water doesn't "look like drowning". The definition may not be medically accepted but the concept is well documented. From the original article. Dry drowning occurs when, after being submerged in water, a person's vocal cords experience a spasm and close, making it difficult to breathe, said Dr. Mike Patrick, an emergency-medicine physician at Nationwide Children's Hospital in Columbus, Ohio, who was not involved in the boy's care. When this happens, the body's response is to send fluid to the lungs to try to open up the vocal cords. But this can lead to excess fluid in the lungs — a condition called pulmonary edema. Symptoms of dry drowning usually start within an hour after a person is submerged in water, Patrick said.

watmough 8y ago

Yeah, my 7 y/o got a bit off her depth in a hotel pool once and was doing this. In fact she did it like 3 times, and I had to rescue her each time. So it's really stuck with me that people drown 'very quietly', and to stay alert whenever my children are in water.

hopeless 8y ago

Practice spotting someone drowning from real videos of public swimming pools: http://spotthedrowningchild.com/ http://spotthedrowningchild.com/ It's good but not perfect since the lifeguard thankfully rescues them before they drown but it's still a good exercise. I can do this exercise fairly reliably but I'm not perfect either. A few years ago I saved a man from drowning _but_ I very very nearly didn't: https://medium.com/@ideasasylum/i-saved-a-man-from-drowning-today-1994833cff4 https://medium.com/@ideasasylum/i-saved-a-man-from-drowning-...

devit 8y ago
Seems insane to allow non-swimmers to use floating tubes that can flip over without also wearing personal flotation devices. Even with a lifeguard, what if multiple people need saving at the same time, or the lifeguard just doesn't notice it after a long time with no interventions require.
- tgb 8y ago
  I think you're jumping to conclusions that they are non-swimmers.
  - christophilus 8y ago
    Not the OP, and I've only watched ~8 of those videos, but it seems pretty safe to say they are non-swimmers. Is there a reason you think I'm jumping to that conclusion?
    - tgb 8y ago
      On what basis do you assume they are non-swimmers? The video doesn't show them swimming - well sure they were in a tube of course it doesn't show them swimming. Just because you can swim fine doesn't mean you will do so when you flip unexpectedly out of a tube when the panic response takes over. One (the first one I saw when opening it again) where the drowner is never using a float: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFgOBjk860 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFgOBjk860 The second one I saw he appears to intentionally be leaving the float to go swim so at least thinks he is capable of swimming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NycwxaU4GPw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NycwxaU4GPw And for completeness, the third one I saw: are you seriously suggesting that you can judge someone's swimming ability from her response after this flip? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STY8N-33-tQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STY8N-33-tQ

danso 8y ago

Related: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child (1215 upvotes, 384 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9962185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9962185

yodsanklai 8y ago

I witnessed once a guy drowning in the sea. There were signs all over the beach that it was very dangerous to swim there at that time of the year. The sea was a bit rough but the waves weren't that impressive. Nonetheless, a guy went for a dip although not very far in the sea, maybe waist-level. Eventually, he realized he wasn't able to go back to the beach, got carried by the current and called for help. Fortunately, he was rescued by a surfer. I certainly wouldn't have gone in the sea considering all the warnings, but at the same time, I didn't really think the guy was in danger while being so close to the beach. I think it was a good lesson.

tetha 8y ago
A friend of mine is an experienced sailor and kayak driver. As he put it: A bad current moves several tons of water per minute. That small wave has more weight than you do, even on a small space. Doesn't matter if you're 300 pound muscle or 400 pound fat, you go where the current goes.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  Surely what matters is whether you can swim faster than the current, not the weight or otherwise of anything.
  - abraae 8y ago
    Not just faster, but significantly faster. If the current is 3 mph, and you can swim at 4 mph, then you will be swimming for a very long time at the effective 1 mph to get back to shore. And if on the way you need to stop for even a minute's rest, you'll lose 4 minutes worth of your hard-won progress.
js2 8y ago
That sounds like a rip current. A rip current moves out to sea faster than you can swim, but they typically aren’t very wide. The key is to swim parallel to the shore till you’re out of the current, then you can swim in. It can be scary though and obviously panicking is about the worst thing you can do. People will often try to swim against the current till they tire and then they unfortunately may drown. You can sometimes identify a rip current from the beach as a stream of bubbles/whitewash moving out to sea by they are often hard to spot.

forkLding 8y ago

Was a junior lifeguard a long time ago at university pool, not sure if they still do this but do lifeguards still have flotation device and go into kicking position when approaching drowning people?

diehunde 8y ago

There's an excellent episode on stuff you should know podcast about drowning. They talked about this and several other interesting facts about drowning. Link: https://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/how-drowning-works.htm https://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/how-drowning-wor...

yzmtf2008 8y ago

What’s even more dangerous is that children can get secondary drowning if they sucked water into their lung [0]. They would often just look like they’re tired, like any other child after the beach. But it can be fatal if not treated properly. [0]: http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-health/health-conditions-library/childrens-health/Pages/secondary-drowning.aspx http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-hea...