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I don't quite understand something: why are the terms "unpermitted", "unauthorized", and "bootleg" used in the article? When I signed up with Seattle Public Uti

I don't quite understand something: why are the terms "unpermitted", "unauthorized", and "bootleg" used in the article? When I signed up with Seattle Public Utilities, I didn't sign an agreement saying I wouldn't mine or run servers out of my apartment.

digianarchist 8y ago
Coming to a power utilities terms and conditions soon I would guess. I wonder what source they will use in response. Generators, solar, move to Quebec?
oh_sigh 8y ago
Keep reading after 'unpermitted', and the answer right there in the article: "...running computer servers far too large for the electrical grids of residential neighborhoods"
- mondoshawan 8y ago
  I read the article past that statement, but saw no reference to regulation or ToS that states this is a violation of any statute or local law -- "far too large" is what, exactly? My problem with that statement is that it doesn't actually answer the question -- it smacks of journalistic supposition and no root facts. I can run two refrigerators, two freezers and an AC unit all day and night and push myself into the top tier of energy usage, being the equivalent of a closet full of computers running 24/7, but all that would do is push myself into the top tier and cost me lots of moolah -- what's the line between authorized and unauthorized?
  - syshum 8y ago
    Well you see, "server power" is different than "Freezer Power" .... /s
  - oh_sigh 8y ago
    "In one instance last year, the transformer outside a bootleg miner’s home overheated and touched off a grass fire, Chelan County PUD officials say."
- Rjevski 8y ago
  If you consume more power than what the electrical company can supply your main breaker will trip. Unless those people are bypassing breakers I don’t see what’s the big deal. If the electrical company tells you that you can draw 20A and gives you a 20A breaker then you should be allowed to use it.
  - mondoshawan 8y ago
    Precisely! If they are bypassing the breakers, then that's "breaking and entering" on the public utility's property -- the mining isn't the "unauthorized" part.
  - ythose 8y ago
    The only purpose of a breaker is to prevent current from heating up wires beyond a safe level. They don't indicate anything about power capacity for a given neighborhood.
    - pm24601 8y ago
      Yes they did: > In one instance last year, the transformer outside a bootleg miner’s home overheated and touched off a grass fire, Chelan County PUD officials say.
      - Rjevski 8y ago
        In which case the utility is the one at fault for not properly calculating the capacity of their grid. If a transformer is rated to supply 1000A then you should not under any circumstances allow more to be drawn from it.
    - syshum 8y ago
      Yes and no, the Service Breakers in your home panel are there for safety yes. However when you sign up for Services you sign up for a given Amp level of service, the Power company then has the expectation to be able to supply you with that level of current at that location Most residential Homes have either 100 or 200amp service. 100amp service would probably be enough to run about 50 cards (assuming each card running at at 250w power draw that may be high no idea)
bdcravens 8y ago
Your apartment lease likely has restrictions on business use.
- syshum 8y ago
  That would be between the landlord and the tenant not a government, generally when people talk as they do in the story they are talking about violation of government regulations not civil contracts
slivym 8y ago
Running industrial equipment off your local residential power grid is both against the terms and conditions of every power company under the sun and also incredibly stupid to do.
- icantdrive55 8y ago
  Yea, but a bank of mining rigs are running off of 120 volts. Yes--they use a lot of amps, but so do electric heaters.
- casefields 8y ago
  A few asics is not industrial equipment. Oh please.
  - neilalexander 8y ago
    How many is "a few"? What if you were running 300 of them? The term "industrial" usually applies to scale.
stordoff 8y ago
If on a domestic connection, they may be referring to: > Where a portion of a dwelling is used regularly for the conduct of business or where a portion of the electricity supplied is used for other than domestic and incidental farm power, service may be supplied on this Schedule, provided the energy used is in accordance with the regulations defined in Sections 43 and 44 of the District’s Utility Service Regulations. If not, energy shall be billed on General Service Schedule 2. https://www.chelanpud.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/electric-rate-schedules-effective-jan-1-2017.pdf https://www.chelanpud.org/docs/default-source/default-docume... (I don't believe the Section 43/44 exception applies, as it is discussing temporary service per https://www.chelanpud.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/utility-service-regulations-effective-april-16-2018.pdf https://www.chelanpud.org/docs/default-source/default-docume...) For miners that have negotiated a non-residential supply, there are additional terms that apply (e.g. HIGH DENSITY LOAD Schedule 35) that the miners _may_ not be complying with.

digianarchist 8y ago

Coming to a power utilities terms and conditions soon I would guess. I wonder what source they will use in response. Generators, solar, move to Quebec?

oh_sigh 8y ago

Keep reading after 'unpermitted', and the answer right there in the article: "...running computer servers far too large for the electrical grids of residential neighborhoods"

mondoshawan 8y ago
I read the article past that statement, but saw no reference to regulation or ToS that states this is a violation of any statute or local law -- "far too large" is what, exactly? My problem with that statement is that it doesn't actually answer the question -- it smacks of journalistic supposition and no root facts. I can run two refrigerators, two freezers and an AC unit all day and night and push myself into the top tier of energy usage, being the equivalent of a closet full of computers running 24/7, but all that would do is push myself into the top tier and cost me lots of moolah -- what's the line between authorized and unauthorized?
- syshum 8y ago
  Well you see, "server power" is different than "Freezer Power" .... /s
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  "In one instance last year, the transformer outside a bootleg miner’s home overheated and touched off a grass fire, Chelan County PUD officials say."
Rjevski 8y ago
If you consume more power than what the electrical company can supply your main breaker will trip. Unless those people are bypassing breakers I don’t see what’s the big deal. If the electrical company tells you that you can draw 20A and gives you a 20A breaker then you should be allowed to use it.
- mondoshawan 8y ago
  Precisely! If they are bypassing the breakers, then that's "breaking and entering" on the public utility's property -- the mining isn't the "unauthorized" part.
- ythose 8y ago
  The only purpose of a breaker is to prevent current from heating up wires beyond a safe level. They don't indicate anything about power capacity for a given neighborhood.
  - pm24601 8y ago
    Yes they did: > In one instance last year, the transformer outside a bootleg miner’s home overheated and touched off a grass fire, Chelan County PUD officials say.
    - Rjevski 8y ago
      In which case the utility is the one at fault for not properly calculating the capacity of their grid. If a transformer is rated to supply 1000A then you should not under any circumstances allow more to be drawn from it.
  - syshum 8y ago
    Yes and no, the Service Breakers in your home panel are there for safety yes. However when you sign up for Services you sign up for a given Amp level of service, the Power company then has the expectation to be able to supply you with that level of current at that location Most residential Homes have either 100 or 200amp service. 100amp service would probably be enough to run about 50 cards (assuming each card running at at 250w power draw that may be high no idea)

bdcravens 8y ago

Your apartment lease likely has restrictions on business use.

syshum 8y ago
That would be between the landlord and the tenant not a government, generally when people talk as they do in the story they are talking about violation of government regulations not civil contracts

slivym 8y ago

Running industrial equipment off your local residential power grid is both against the terms and conditions of every power company under the sun and also incredibly stupid to do.

icantdrive55 8y ago
Yea, but a bank of mining rigs are running off of 120 volts. Yes--they use a lot of amps, but so do electric heaters.
casefields 8y ago
A few asics is not industrial equipment. Oh please.
- neilalexander 8y ago
  How many is "a few"? What if you were running 300 of them? The term "industrial" usually applies to scale.

stordoff 8y ago

If on a domestic connection, they may be referring to: > Where a portion of a dwelling is used regularly for the conduct of business or where a portion of the electricity supplied is used for other than domestic and incidental farm power, service may be supplied on this Schedule, provided the energy used is in accordance with the regulations defined in Sections 43 and 44 of the District’s Utility Service Regulations. If not, energy shall be billed on General Service Schedule 2. https://www.chelanpud.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/electric-rate-schedules-effective-jan-1-2017.pdf https://www.chelanpud.org/docs/default-source/default-docume... (I don't believe the Section 43/44 exception applies, as it is discussing temporary service per https://www.chelanpud.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/utility-service-regulations-effective-april-16-2018.pdf https://www.chelanpud.org/docs/default-source/default-docume...) For miners that have negotiated a non-residential supply, there are additional terms that apply (e.g. HIGH DENSITY LOAD Schedule 35) that the miners _may_ not be complying with.