4 ms·

Not all business models are legal. If the companies don't want to abide by the rules of the EU, they can opt not provide services to people in the EU.

by sbov 8y ago

Tomte 8y ago
Furthermore, they can adjust their business. The GDPR does not outlaw ads. It only makes using the worst types of ads difficult or maybe even impossible. And that‘s unequivocally good!
- thedevil 8y ago
  I prefer some targeted ads. I'd like to be able to opt in or out. Why do you think that what I want from Google should not be allowed if it's a win for me, Google, and advertisers?
  - icebraining 8y ago
    You can! It's totally fine for Google to ask for your consent to track you! They just can't make your use of the site dependent on your consent.
    - tchock23 8y ago
      Why not? As a consumer if I don't consent I simply don't use the service. Is it my right to use Google?
      - icebraining 8y ago
        I answered in another post of this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17163342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17163342
      - solarkraft 8y ago
        Would you seriously, actually ever stop to use Google? They have a gigantic monopoly on so many things.
        tchock23 8y ago
        I wouldn’t, but if anyone thinks their privacy violations are so egregious then they should refrain from using their services. No one is forcing them to use the service.
        tchock23 8y ago
        To the person that downvoted this - anyone can use DuckDuckGo, Apple Map, Dropbox, Airtable, any one of hundreds of email service providers, etc to avoid Google. It’s actually fairly easy to avoid.
  - Tomte 8y ago
    Great! The GDPR allows that. It simply doesn‘t allow you to decide for me that I would really love targetted ads. Hence, „consent“.
  - anonymousab 8y ago
    You have to explicitly opt-in now. Perhaps a middle-ground will be centralized batch opt-in services that opt you into collecting for most ad networks and sites. The requirement not to deny service for people who don't opt-in should prevent that from being used as an end-run around the regulations, but we'll see.
    - dazc 8y ago
      'You have to explicitly opt-in now.' I'm seeing targeted ads so where did I opt in? I'm not saying I didn't but the fact that I can't recall doing so is a bit of puzzle?
      - inetknght 8y ago
        Are you a European citizen? If not, then I don't think there's much more you can do.
        anonymousab 8y ago
        There's the possibility of digital citizenship for some EU member states but I have no clue if it grants any of these rights or protections, or is even legal for most countries (or specifically, America). EDIT: typo.
        dazc 8y ago
        Yeah, UK actually. I have now turned them off here https://adssettings.google.com/ https://adssettings.google.com/
thedevil 8y ago
> Not all business models are legal. But why make this one illegal? We can make wedding planners illegal if we don't like them and then just say "not all business models are legal. But that doesn't explain why. Why stop people from engaging in a transaction that both sides consider to be a win?
- icebraining 8y ago
  Because "in the EU, personal information cannot be conceived as a mere economic asset: according to the case law of the European Court of Human Rights, the processing of personal data requires protection to ensure a person's enjoyment of the right to respect for private life and freedom of expression and association". https://edps.europa.eu/sites/edp/files/publication/16-09-23_bigdata_opinion_en.pdf https://edps.europa.eu/sites/edp/files/publication/16-09-23_...
  - thedevil 8y ago
    It's a little unclear to me how this answers the question. Can you connect the dots here? I don't think not giving you services if you don't opt in violates your "enjoyment of the right to respect for private life..." Are you saying that you shouldn't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services? If not, how does your quote tie in?
    - icebraining 8y ago
      Are you saying that you shouldn't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services? That's the principle behind the GDPR, yes.
      - KozmoNau7 8y ago
        No. You are still allowed to do that, but you have to explicitly opt-in.
    - anonymousab 8y ago
      > Are you saying that you shouldn't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services? I think that's the crux. That information is to be regarded as part of some inalienable rights, that those who have those rights cannot give up, even if they want to. Not allowing people to waive their rights prevents a race to the bottom, in theory.
taeric 8y ago
I would reword. Not all business models are healthy for society. Or their workers. Or their consumers. Searching for mechanisms to limit these models seems fair. I hope it is carried forth on good faith and gets good results.

Not all business models are legal. If the companies don't want to abide by the rules of the EU, they can opt not provide services to people in the EU.

by sbov 8y ago

Not all business models are legal. If the companies don't want to abide by the rules of the EU, they can opt not provide services to people in the EU.

Tomte 8y ago

Furthermore, they can adjust their business. The GDPR does not outlaw ads. It only makes using the worst types of ads difficult or maybe even impossible. And that‘s unequivocally good!

thedevil 8y ago
I prefer some targeted ads. I'd like to be able to opt in or out. Why do you think that what I want from Google should not be allowed if it's a win for me, Google, and advertisers?
- icebraining 8y ago
  You can! It's totally fine for Google to ask for your consent to track you! They just can't make your use of the site dependent on your consent.
  - tchock23 8y ago
    Why not? As a consumer if I don't consent I simply don't use the service. Is it my right to use Google?
    - icebraining 8y ago
      I answered in another post of this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17163342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17163342
    - solarkraft 8y ago
      Would you seriously, actually ever stop to use Google? They have a gigantic monopoly on so many things.
      - tchock23 8y ago
        I wouldn’t, but if anyone thinks their privacy violations are so egregious then they should refrain from using their services. No one is forcing them to use the service.
        tchock23 8y ago
        To the person that downvoted this - anyone can use DuckDuckGo, Apple Map, Dropbox, Airtable, any one of hundreds of email service providers, etc to avoid Google. It’s actually fairly easy to avoid.
- Tomte 8y ago
  Great! The GDPR allows that. It simply doesn‘t allow you to decide for me that I would really love targetted ads. Hence, „consent“.
- anonymousab 8y ago
  You have to explicitly opt-in now. Perhaps a middle-ground will be centralized batch opt-in services that opt you into collecting for most ad networks and sites. The requirement not to deny service for people who don't opt-in should prevent that from being used as an end-run around the regulations, but we'll see.
  - dazc 8y ago
    'You have to explicitly opt-in now.' I'm seeing targeted ads so where did I opt in? I'm not saying I didn't but the fact that I can't recall doing so is a bit of puzzle?
    - inetknght 8y ago
      Are you a European citizen? If not, then I don't think there's much more you can do.
      - anonymousab 8y ago
        There's the possibility of digital citizenship for some EU member states but I have no clue if it grants any of these rights or protections, or is even legal for most countries (or specifically, America). EDIT: typo.
      - dazc 8y ago
        Yeah, UK actually. I have now turned them off here https://adssettings.google.com/ https://adssettings.google.com/

thedevil 8y ago

> Not all business models are legal. But why make this one illegal? We can make wedding planners illegal if we don't like them and then just say "not all business models are legal. But that doesn't explain why. Why stop people from engaging in a transaction that both sides consider to be a win?

icebraining 8y ago
Because "in the EU, personal information cannot be conceived as a mere economic asset: according to the case law of the European Court of Human Rights, the processing of personal data requires protection to ensure a person's enjoyment of the right to respect for private life and freedom of expression and association". https://edps.europa.eu/sites/edp/files/publication/16-09-23_bigdata_opinion_en.pdf https://edps.europa.eu/sites/edp/files/publication/16-09-23_...
- thedevil 8y ago
  It's a little unclear to me how this answers the question. Can you connect the dots here? I don't think not giving you services if you don't opt in violates your "enjoyment of the right to respect for private life..." Are you saying that you shouldn't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services? If not, how does your quote tie in?
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Are you saying that you shouldn't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services? That's the principle behind the GDPR, yes.
    - KozmoNau7 8y ago
      No. You are still allowed to do that, but you have to explicitly opt-in.
  - anonymousab 8y ago
    > Are you saying that you shouldn't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services? I think that's the crux. That information is to be regarded as part of some inalienable rights, that those who have those rights cannot give up, even if they want to. Not allowing people to waive their rights prevents a race to the bottom, in theory.

taeric 8y ago

I would reword. Not all business models are healthy for society. Or their workers. Or their consumers. Searching for mechanisms to limit these models seems fair. I hope it is carried forth on good faith and gets good results.