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This keeps coming up and people keep saying that's the way it is, but Belgium's biggest newspapers just GDPR-walled their websites. You can't read the paper unl
by Tharkun 8y ago
This keeps coming up and people keep saying that's the way it is, but Belgium's biggest newspapers just GDPR-walled their websites. You can't read the paper unless you agree to data gathering, cookie setting and tailored advertising. Maybe what they're doing is against the rules. Maybe their interpration is different. I don't know, but it is what it is.
- OJFord 8y agoIf I block JS, and the way they've implemented means that the site is readable and usable despite me never seeing or opting in, are they in violation, or is it on me for 'tampering' or whatever?
- kungtotte 8y agoAFAIK, it's on them. They can't track you without explicit consent, and they can't force you to consent to improper tracking in order to use the service. By improper I mean something that's not literally required for the service to function; a newsletter obviously needs to know email addresses to work since that's the core operation of the service.
- briandear 8y agoIsn’t revenue literally required for a service to function? Who pays for the server costs?
- speakeron 8y agoNothing stops a site showing ads; they just have to think of creative ways to target them. It's a new opportunity, as all changes of environments are.
- virgilp 8y agoThey are free to put up paywalls. GDPR legislates that personal information can't be used as currency - not that you can't ask for payment.
- jiveturkey 8y agobut it can. you just need consent.
- virgilp 8y agoYou can't condition service on consent (if you only need the consent for revenue, not in order to provide actual service)
- fjsolwmv 8y agoWhat is "the service"? Why can't personalized ads be part of my service? I can how selling personal data isn't part to the service, but the ad content displayed to a user is.
- kungtotte 8y agoIf you're a newspaper for example, personalized ads isn't part of your service which is to present news. So you can't make presenting the news conditional on accepting ad tracking. You're free to have ad tracking as long as it is optional and by explicit consent only.
- OJFord 8y agoBut you can use a paywall... So can you say 'pay, with either cash or personal information'?
- Joeri 8y agoThe basic argument as I understand it is that products paid for by advertising and tracking require you to accept advertising and tracking in order to obtain them. In other words, you are explicitly agreeing to purchase the product in exchange for your privacy / attention. This argument will be settled in the courts. If it holds up, GDPR won't affect privacy much because I don't think most people will opt for privacy over convenience. If the courts rule against this reasoning, we'll see the rise of micropayments on the web.
- alkonaut 8y agoI thought that was literally what the law was supposed to prevent. That is: viewers should not even be allowed to agree to data collection that is only used for tracking and not for the actual business. A newspaper might argue that their business is tracking users so they can show ads and afford journalists, but it won’t hold up. Of course sites will rather try to pull a stunt like this if the option is shutting down your business directly - but I sure hope regulators force sites to turn to paid content or shut down.
- merb 8y ago> A newspaper might argue that their business is tracking users so they can show ads and afford journalists, but it won’t hold up. I think it will hold up. Newspapers are a big factor in European the courts would not risk anything against them. Especially not if they might loose a big chunk of revenue.
- alkonaut 8y agoIt’s certainly going to be a battle. Allowing “ad-walls” like agree in order to see content they are making GDPR pointless. The law text seems pretty clear on that I think. Q is what will actually happen if the law is interpreted the way I want/think? Newspapers are doing quite poorly already.
- azernik 8y ago
- erichocean 8y agoI just checked, and if you have an above average IQ and click on enough 'show me more' links, eventually, they'll let you just choose "functional-only" cookies, and from then on, you can read the site. Takes about five different screens and a lot of scrolling, and they go out of their way to make you not want to do it, but it's there...
- madez 8y agoI'm browsing without cookies and javascript, and I can read the site just fine right away.
- Tharkun 8y agoI'm browsing without cookies and I can't.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoWhat does IQ have to do with anything?
- mjburgess 8y agoIt means that when you set yourself the task of undermining someone's comment its easier to find the gotchas in a process, than when just doing it casually. "Intelligence" in snark-validating environments like this means "successful oneupsmanship", and quotient means "upvotes".
- Moter8 8y agoCould you tell us what site it is, so we can see it too?
- lucb1e 8y agoI'm not so concerned with one newspaper's interpretation of the law or the risk in not following it, what I'm more worried about is that I can't find a word about it in the law. The relevant clause is supposed to be article 7.4 I think: > 4. When assessing whether consent is freely given, utmost account shall be taken of whether, inter alia, the performance of a contract, including the provision of a service, is conditional on consent to the processing of personal data that is not necessary for the performance of that contract. So they have to sit in contemplation for a few hours before going right ahead with collecting data that is not functionally required? Utmost care was taken...
- beojan 8y agoIt's the data protection authority that would make this judgement.
- lucb1e 8y agoBut it doesn't say so.
- fjsolwmv 8y agoIt's implicit. Regulations only mean what ever the regulator decides they mean.
- lucb1e 8y agoUh, doesn't the judge judge such things, when company X thinks it's compliant and the regulator thinks it isn't?
- amarkov 8y agoIn most countries, regulators are given broad authority to issue supplementary rules, explaining exactly what's required or forbidden to comply with the original law. The goal is that people who know a lot about data privacy, rather than random EU representatives, can figure out the specifics.
- amelius 8y agoPerhaps you have a choice between a paid subscription and targeted advertising (?) Would that be allowed by the GDPR?
- fjsolwmv 8y agoThat's the "€20M Or 4% of global revenue" question