5 ms·

Its REALLY intense living here - I lived in the bay from 2004-2014, and moved up here for better COL. I'm riding the wave now, but its getting ever higher and m

Its REALLY intense living here - I lived in the bay from 2004-2014, and moved up here for better COL. I'm riding the wave now, but its getting ever higher and my income needs to increase by the same amount. I'm a developer, but not a superstar - I make more than the median dev income, but that is not enough to afford any sort of permanent housing much of city limits. I am hoping for an economic shock at this point - anything to shake loose all the people holding onto their investment houses while the values are going up, and maybe then all the brand new apartment buildings that wouldn't be able to find tenants might convert to condo's. Supply is desperately needed - even renting is a bloodsport (far more than NYC or even the SF bay, if a little cheaper). Its literally my #1 concern about the area. If the wave rises to the point that I can never achieve housing stability without a 1.5 hour commute, I'll move (just as so many of my friends here have). Colorado and Portland are next, but even there the whispers of NIMBYism are getting louder. I'm beginning to think at this point that the economy is out to get everyone who's under 35 - the only place there are jobs that pay well enough to afford anything are vastly more expensive.

doublerebel 8y ago
We're still more affordable per sqft than most top international cities and many US cities -- I think the mentality of needing a large sqft unit, or yard, or single-family home in Seattle needs to change. We have a ton of parks if anyone needs space. For the quality of life, I still think Seattle is very affordable. That being said, I completely agree that zoning needs to be overhauled.
- taurath 8y ago
  I want a condo or townhouse. Apparently condos are unfeasible in WA due to state liability laws.
  - binarycrusader 8y ago
    There are plenty of condominiums in WA, especially on the east side.
    - moonka 8y ago
      Lots of existing ones, but not a lot under construction. This[1] talks a little bit about why there haven't been a lot of projects in the last few years. http://thelens.news/2018/01/10/the-need-for-condominium-liability-reform/ http://thelens.news/2018/01/10/the-need-for-condominium-liab...
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Only a few cities are more expensive than Seattle ATM, like LA, SF, NYC, Boston maybe. It isn't as simple as upscaling zoning, you need roads to go with it. West Seattle has horrible traffic these days because they built a bunch of high density housing around California Avenue. They did add rapid bus transit, but everyone still drives even if they have an apartment.
  - doublerebel 8y ago
    Yes we're between 5th [0] and 7th [1] depending on the measure, which is think is appropriate. Most of the places I'd rather live globally are more expensive [2]. [0]: https://nested.com/research/rental/2017/us/all https://nested.com/research/rental/2017/us/all [1]: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-most-expensive-u-s-cities-to-live-in-2018/index.html https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-mo... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/admin/100000005486592.embedded.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/admin/1000000054865...
    - thatfrenchguy 8y ago
      Paris’s rent doesn’t include the (train/métro) suburbs, where 80% of the people live. It’s a very different market than the Bay Area.
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      As far as international cities go, very few offer better than Seattle salaries for software engineers. Maybe maybe Zurich, but definitely not Paris or London.
      - taurath 8y ago
        And yet, in the mid 100s in salary one can’t afford a place here.
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Compared to other international non-US cities? Seattle is still very affordable. Places in Zurich aren’t cheap. Heck, even Vancouver is more pricey.
AFNobody 8y ago
> Its literally my #1 concern about the area. If the wave rises to the point that I can never achieve housing stability without a 1.5 hour commute, I'll move (just as so many of my friends here have). Colorado and Portland are next, but even there the whispers of NIMBYism are getting louder. I'm beginning to think at this point that the economy is out to get everyone who's under 35 - the only place there are jobs that pay well enough to afford anything are vastly more expensive. I'd suggest the Southeast if you can. $300k houses are quite viable with 30 minute commutes.
driverdan 8y ago
> I make more than the median dev income, but that is not enough to afford any sort of permanent housing much of city limits. If you have a large, single income family perhaps not but for most people it should be plenty to buy.
- taurath 8y ago
  600k gets you a shack or a small condo on the outskirts with a long car commute. For someone making $150k trying to buy an $800k property is really stretching them thin
  - lazyasciiart 8y ago
    Oh bullshit. 600k would get you a 2bed condo in Capitol Hill, or a perfectly livable house well within city limits. Source: my recent condo purchase in Capitol Hill, redfin.
    - taurath 8y ago
      There is not a single 2 bedroom up for sale in Cap Hill for 600k or under. There are 5 1 beds with 600 square feet or less. That’s it. I got my number off of current postings
      - lazyasciiart 8y ago
        Oh sorry, this one isn't legally in Capitol Hill, guess you should move to Atlanta or Bothell to find anywhere less than $1 million - https://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/1400-Hubbell-Pl-98101/unit-1201/home/21428 https://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/1400-Hubbell-Pl-98101/unit... - bye!

doublerebel 8y ago

We're still more affordable per sqft than most top international cities and many US cities -- I think the mentality of needing a large sqft unit, or yard, or single-family home in Seattle needs to change. We have a ton of parks if anyone needs space. For the quality of life, I still think Seattle is very affordable. That being said, I completely agree that zoning needs to be overhauled.

taurath 8y ago
I want a condo or townhouse. Apparently condos are unfeasible in WA due to state liability laws.
- binarycrusader 8y ago
  There are plenty of condominiums in WA, especially on the east side.
  - moonka 8y ago
    Lots of existing ones, but not a lot under construction. This[1] talks a little bit about why there haven't been a lot of projects in the last few years. http://thelens.news/2018/01/10/the-need-for-condominium-liability-reform/ http://thelens.news/2018/01/10/the-need-for-condominium-liab...
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
Only a few cities are more expensive than Seattle ATM, like LA, SF, NYC, Boston maybe. It isn't as simple as upscaling zoning, you need roads to go with it. West Seattle has horrible traffic these days because they built a bunch of high density housing around California Avenue. They did add rapid bus transit, but everyone still drives even if they have an apartment.
- doublerebel 8y ago
  Yes we're between 5th [0] and 7th [1] depending on the measure, which is think is appropriate. Most of the places I'd rather live globally are more expensive [2]. [0]: https://nested.com/research/rental/2017/us/all https://nested.com/research/rental/2017/us/all [1]: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-most-expensive-u-s-cities-to-live-in-2018/index.html https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-mo... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/admin/100000005486592.embedded.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/admin/1000000054865...
  - thatfrenchguy 8y ago
    Paris’s rent doesn’t include the (train/métro) suburbs, where 80% of the people live. It’s a very different market than the Bay Area.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    As far as international cities go, very few offer better than Seattle salaries for software engineers. Maybe maybe Zurich, but definitely not Paris or London.
    - taurath 8y ago
      And yet, in the mid 100s in salary one can’t afford a place here.
      - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Compared to other international non-US cities? Seattle is still very affordable. Places in Zurich aren’t cheap. Heck, even Vancouver is more pricey.

AFNobody 8y ago

> Its literally my #1 concern about the area. If the wave rises to the point that I can never achieve housing stability without a 1.5 hour commute, I'll move (just as so many of my friends here have). Colorado and Portland are next, but even there the whispers of NIMBYism are getting louder. I'm beginning to think at this point that the economy is out to get everyone who's under 35 - the only place there are jobs that pay well enough to afford anything are vastly more expensive. I'd suggest the Southeast if you can. $300k houses are quite viable with 30 minute commutes.

driverdan 8y ago

> I make more than the median dev income, but that is not enough to afford any sort of permanent housing much of city limits. If you have a large, single income family perhaps not but for most people it should be plenty to buy.

taurath 8y ago
600k gets you a shack or a small condo on the outskirts with a long car commute. For someone making $150k trying to buy an $800k property is really stretching them thin
- lazyasciiart 8y ago
  Oh bullshit. 600k would get you a 2bed condo in Capitol Hill, or a perfectly livable house well within city limits. Source: my recent condo purchase in Capitol Hill, redfin.
  - taurath 8y ago
    There is not a single 2 bedroom up for sale in Cap Hill for 600k or under. There are 5 1 beds with 600 square feet or less. That’s it. I got my number off of current postings
    - lazyasciiart 8y ago
      Oh sorry, this one isn't legally in Capitol Hill, guess you should move to Atlanta or Bothell to find anywhere less than $1 million - https://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/1400-Hubbell-Pl-98101/unit-1201/home/21428 https://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/1400-Hubbell-Pl-98101/unit... - bye!