4 ms·

> EU can't wait to give fat fines to companies like Facebook and Google, due to their tax evasion schemes. How does GDPR relate to "tax evasion" at all? Also,

by ipsum2 8y ago

> EU can't wait to give fat fines to companies like Facebook and Google, due to their tax evasion schemes. How does GDPR relate to "tax evasion" at all? Also, Google and FB set up to pay taxes in Ireland, which is a member of the E.U. That seems legal to me. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

adventured 8y ago
The 4% of worldwide revenue aspect is almost exclusively pointed at the giant US tech companies. Europe has few meaningfully large tech companies, with large global sales, such that taxing worldwide revenue matters (this is why they didn't just make it an EU revenue tax). It's meant to try to plunder some of the global revenue that Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Netflix, Apple, Amazon, Twitter, Snapchat, etc. are generating. They're betting that these companies will slip up at some point (who the hell taxes revenue, instead of profit, other than the backwards Russian state anyway?). Amazon is going to $400 billion in sales (and is about to have a giant, lucrative ad business). Google is going to $200 billion in sales. Facebook is going to $100 billion in sales. Netflix will have 250 million subscribers. Apple is pushing toward $250 billion in sales. GDPR itself wasn't designed just to tax the US giants. The 4% tax on worldwide revenue however does exist solely to try to get loot from the US tech dominance. As the EU gets left further and further behind the US tech colossus, their rage and envy will increase by the year. The Germans like to snark at the Americans about how they should build better cars. Well, Europe should learn to build better tech, and learn to pay their engineers what they're actually worth if they want to compete with the US that pays 3x or 5x more.
- the_watcher 8y ago
  There's no 4% tax on revenue in the GDPR as far as I can tell. It's a 4% fine for violations. Which is potentially far greater than a 4% tax, since it applies to every violation.
  - DuskStar 8y ago
    If fines are impossible to avoid without going out of business or leaving the market, they're taxes by another name.
    - oaiey 8y ago
      They are impossible to avoid if and only if they continue to give a shit about user's rights. I agree however that the law targets the big tech companies. They ignored previous laws and regulations so they got a meaner more targeted one. Btw, constitutions start with "we the people" not with "we the companies".
- bad_user 8y ago
  > Europe should learn to build better tech, and learn to pay their engineers what they're actually worth if they want to compete with the US that pays 3x or 5x more. I'm an European and I must say that's bullshit. Yes, you can earn 3x to 5x more in Silicon Valley. Property prices are crazy expensive however, many people don't afford to live near their office, with crazy commute times being common, the schools there are either expensive and crazily competitive or poor, if you work on your own or in a startup it's pretty common to not have health insurance, in which case you can get fucked, plus your gun control is pretty broken and it's horrific to see kids shot in US schools all the time. I live in Romania. I'm within 15 minutes of my office that I do by bike, I have both public and private health insurance for cheap (and in spite of popular opinion, Bucharest has some of the best trained medical personnel in the world), my earnings are well above the average which means that for me the cost of living is cheap, my 8 year old son goes to a good public school, I own my own apartment and we'll build a house in the future too and I freely travel to Berlin, Munich, London, Barcelona, Rome, etc. yearly for conferences and I can walk the streets of Bucharest without fear, gun-related murders and murder in general being almost unheard of. People in Silicon Valley may be earning 5x, but the cost of living is 10x at least. If anything, Silicon Valley is only attractive because all the cool companies are there. But you know what, due to the high competition, nowadays you've got plenty of companies hiring remotely or opening offices in Europe. I'm fine with that.
  - pqaewofjawe 8y ago
    Keep in mind that in absolute terms, earning 5x more and 10x cost of living might be larger savings. It sounds like Romania is a nice place, so you could even save for 5 years and retire there. That said, I dislike rewarding california a single cent of tax revenue for them to piss their LSD-addled urine into the wind, fuck SF go to austin TX (state income tax, easiest 10% raise of your life! pay is same as SF)
  - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
    Most of this is pretty irrelevant to the comment you're replying to. The argument is that EU companies don't pay tech talent what they're worth. School shootings and bike lanes don't have anything to do with that. And I'm completely sympathetic to the argument that you're making about compensation vs. cost-of-living, but I think you're mistaken. The cost of living isn't 10x that of Europe. Taking into account taxes and government benefits that we have to pay for ourselves, it's probably more like 50-100% more expensive to live in, say, the Bay Area or NYC vs. any major metro area in Europe other than Eastern Europe, which will catch up eventually. I could be wrong though! I live in NYC, in a very nice 2 bedroom apartment in a doorman building right next to a large park. My daughter attends an expensive private school. We have excellent healthcare, travel a LOT, eat out frequently, etc. Total basic budget (not including taxes, savings, or other splurges) is ~$10k - 12k / month. Is your budget for similar lifestyle around $1k / month? In general, those of us in the US who are lucky enough to work in tech and live in HCOL areas and work for high salaries aren't irrational; the tradeoff is usually worth it, especially if you enjoy urban areas.
- maccard 8y ago
  > Europe should learn to build better tech, and learn to pay their engineers what they're actually worth if they want to compete with the US that pays 3x or 5x more. Funny, I see plenty of happily employed engineers with 30 days PTO, mandatory sick pay, national healthcare, stable security nets, support for maternity (and in some cases even paternity) leave.
- slededit 8y ago
  > who the hell taxes revenue, instead of profit, other than the backwards Russian state anyway? Both Washington and Texas for starters....
throwupaway123 8y ago
New companies can't benefit from that scheme anymore, since 2014 actually. "Finance Minister Michael Noonan closed the Double Irish to new schemes in October 2014 (existing schemes to close in 2020), and expanded the Capital Allowances for Intangibles scheme as a replacement"
sanxiyn 8y ago
Yes, it's tax avoidance, not tax evasion. On the other hand, EU seems to want to make the current arrangement tax evasion in the future.

by ipsum2 8y ago

adventured 8y ago

The 4% of worldwide revenue aspect is almost exclusively pointed at the giant US tech companies. Europe has few meaningfully large tech companies, with large global sales, such that taxing worldwide revenue matters (this is why they didn't just make it an EU revenue tax). It's meant to try to plunder some of the global revenue that Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Netflix, Apple, Amazon, Twitter, Snapchat, etc. are generating. They're betting that these companies will slip up at some point (who the hell taxes revenue, instead of profit, other than the backwards Russian state anyway?). Amazon is going to $400 billion in sales (and is about to have a giant, lucrative ad business). Google is going to $200 billion in sales. Facebook is going to $100 billion in sales. Netflix will have 250 million subscribers. Apple is pushing toward $250 billion in sales. GDPR itself wasn't designed just to tax the US giants. The 4% tax on worldwide revenue however does exist solely to try to get loot from the US tech dominance. As the EU gets left further and further behind the US tech colossus, their rage and envy will increase by the year. The Germans like to snark at the Americans about how they should build better cars. Well, Europe should learn to build better tech, and learn to pay their engineers what they're actually worth if they want to compete with the US that pays 3x or 5x more.

the_watcher 8y ago
There's no 4% tax on revenue in the GDPR as far as I can tell. It's a 4% fine for violations. Which is potentially far greater than a 4% tax, since it applies to every violation.
- DuskStar 8y ago
  If fines are impossible to avoid without going out of business or leaving the market, they're taxes by another name.
  - oaiey 8y ago
    They are impossible to avoid if and only if they continue to give a shit about user's rights. I agree however that the law targets the big tech companies. They ignored previous laws and regulations so they got a meaner more targeted one. Btw, constitutions start with "we the people" not with "we the companies".
bad_user 8y ago
> Europe should learn to build better tech, and learn to pay their engineers what they're actually worth if they want to compete with the US that pays 3x or 5x more. I'm an European and I must say that's bullshit. Yes, you can earn 3x to 5x more in Silicon Valley. Property prices are crazy expensive however, many people don't afford to live near their office, with crazy commute times being common, the schools there are either expensive and crazily competitive or poor, if you work on your own or in a startup it's pretty common to not have health insurance, in which case you can get fucked, plus your gun control is pretty broken and it's horrific to see kids shot in US schools all the time. I live in Romania. I'm within 15 minutes of my office that I do by bike, I have both public and private health insurance for cheap (and in spite of popular opinion, Bucharest has some of the best trained medical personnel in the world), my earnings are well above the average which means that for me the cost of living is cheap, my 8 year old son goes to a good public school, I own my own apartment and we'll build a house in the future too and I freely travel to Berlin, Munich, London, Barcelona, Rome, etc. yearly for conferences and I can walk the streets of Bucharest without fear, gun-related murders and murder in general being almost unheard of. People in Silicon Valley may be earning 5x, but the cost of living is 10x at least. If anything, Silicon Valley is only attractive because all the cool companies are there. But you know what, due to the high competition, nowadays you've got plenty of companies hiring remotely or opening offices in Europe. I'm fine with that.
- pqaewofjawe 8y ago
  Keep in mind that in absolute terms, earning 5x more and 10x cost of living might be larger savings. It sounds like Romania is a nice place, so you could even save for 5 years and retire there. That said, I dislike rewarding california a single cent of tax revenue for them to piss their LSD-addled urine into the wind, fuck SF go to austin TX (state income tax, easiest 10% raise of your life! pay is same as SF)
- ryanwaggoner 8y ago
  Most of this is pretty irrelevant to the comment you're replying to. The argument is that EU companies don't pay tech talent what they're worth. School shootings and bike lanes don't have anything to do with that. And I'm completely sympathetic to the argument that you're making about compensation vs. cost-of-living, but I think you're mistaken. The cost of living isn't 10x that of Europe. Taking into account taxes and government benefits that we have to pay for ourselves, it's probably more like 50-100% more expensive to live in, say, the Bay Area or NYC vs. any major metro area in Europe other than Eastern Europe, which will catch up eventually. I could be wrong though! I live in NYC, in a very nice 2 bedroom apartment in a doorman building right next to a large park. My daughter attends an expensive private school. We have excellent healthcare, travel a LOT, eat out frequently, etc. Total basic budget (not including taxes, savings, or other splurges) is ~$10k - 12k / month. Is your budget for similar lifestyle around $1k / month? In general, those of us in the US who are lucky enough to work in tech and live in HCOL areas and work for high salaries aren't irrational; the tradeoff is usually worth it, especially if you enjoy urban areas.
maccard 8y ago
> Europe should learn to build better tech, and learn to pay their engineers what they're actually worth if they want to compete with the US that pays 3x or 5x more. Funny, I see plenty of happily employed engineers with 30 days PTO, mandatory sick pay, national healthcare, stable security nets, support for maternity (and in some cases even paternity) leave.
slededit 8y ago
> who the hell taxes revenue, instead of profit, other than the backwards Russian state anyway? Both Washington and Texas for starters....

throwupaway123 8y ago

New companies can't benefit from that scheme anymore, since 2014 actually. "Finance Minister Michael Noonan closed the Double Irish to new schemes in October 2014 (existing schemes to close in 2020), and expanded the Capital Allowances for Intangibles scheme as a replacement"

sanxiyn 8y ago

Yes, it's tax avoidance, not tax evasion. On the other hand, EU seems to want to make the current arrangement tax evasion in the future.