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People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services -- this is what actual
by dnomad 8y ago
People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services -- this is what actual monopolistic behavior looks like. Apple controls access to a significant share of the mobile application industry and it directly abuses that market power to harm customers by reducing competition and artificially raising prices. Apple is being sued in both US and French courts over it appstore monopoly so let's hope this ridiculous practice is stopped soon.
- jakubp 8y agoIs there Amazon Kindle app for iOS? If there is, isn't it the exact same type of app as Steam Link? Access your content library, buy more content. If Apple lets Amazon do this (presumably because Amazon is too big to ignore) and won't let Steam do it (because Steam isn't big enough), then this feels more like a cartel than monopoly.
- huseyinkeles 8y agoit actually has, but you can not buy new books, only read the ones you've already bought.
- Haydos585x2 8y agoMy understanding of Kindle and Audible on iOS is that Amazon does not _sell_ content on the iOS apps. You can only download/access your content. I always found this annoying with Audible and having to use my laptop to purchase and then download in the app. I haven't had an iPhone in a few years but I think the Steam app was similar.
- pragone 8y agoI always assumed this was because Amazon didn't want to have to pay the 30% or whatever cost to Apple for in-app purchases.
- canuckintime 8y agoPrecisely. Amazon's Kindle app actually predated Apple's in-app purchasing mechanics. Apple forced Amazon to remove the already in use in-app Kindle store after Apple started charging 30%
- matwood 8y agoThere is, but the way the Apple app store rules work is that if you are purchasing something for use in the current app, it must go through the IAP API and give Apple their cut. Purchases for things outside the app (like physical items) are fine. The way this works with Amazon, is in the Amazon store app a user can buy ebooks/audiobooks (along with anything else Amazon sells), and then those books are sent to the Kindle app on iOS. There is no option to buy content directly in the Kindle app. I also believe the apps cannot directly link to each other as that would circumvent the above. EDIT I just checked (it had been awhile) and it looks like you can no longer buy the books within the Amazon store app either, and can only get a sample.
- jakubp 8y agoOk. What if Amazon customer buys a kindle ebook on Amazon.com and then reads it on iOS Kindle app? I don't imagine Apple gets a cut in that scenario, do they? A comment here said that Valve was open to disabling buying in the app and they are still banned. Hmm. I can see how Apple's position to get some cut is reasonable, but we are talking multiplatform here. Was Valve unwilling to give Apple any cut at all? Was Apple insisting on too big a cut? What's going on?
- fma 8y agoSo that's why I can't buy books on the app... Even though I can find it. Always confused the hell out of me but makes sense now.
- danso 8y agoWhy is the Amazon Store app not subject to the Apple fee? I’ve always bought stuff via browser and Amazon.com
- signal11 8y agoThe Amazon store app doesn't sell anything which might compete with iBooks or the iTunes store, i.e. - no digital books, music or movies. In my other comment on this thread I've pointed out how this creates hilariously bad UX for iOS users.
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- tramGG 8y ago"Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices, escalating its war with Google" http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-wont-sell-nest-products-from-google-2018-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-wont-sell-nest-product... Sounds like the same behavior. Google has been known to replace whole other start-up services or de-list them.
- 23443463455 8y agoSurprise??? I’ve been basically tarred and feathered for years for suggesting that dear cult leaders {fill in the techtalitarian tech company of choice} are threats to competition and actual diversity and competition and even all of humanity. These tech companies are essentially the reincarnation of the same impulses for control and utopian psychosis that the socialists called Nazis, the Communists called Soviets, and the theocrats called Islam are. It’s essentially just repackaging and rebranding, because the product is still rotten under the package. People are even cheering them on just like the propagandized and bamboozled masses do and did at other times. Unfortunately, this time there will be no America to stop the authoritarian impulses from overrunning the free world, as America itself is succumbing to the infestation. Soon enough we will all experience what it is that true Americans died to prevent when we are tricked by our cure illusion into stopping our freedom meds and the manic authoritarianis that invariably ends in mass homicide of one form or another takes over.
- pookeh 8y agoOr even like this "Yelp And TripAdvisor Team Up To Pile On Google Over Search Monopoly" https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/05/yelp-and-tripadvisor-team-up-to-pile-on-google-over-search-monopoly/ https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/05/yelp-and-tripadvisor-team...
- ensignavenger 8y agoI can buy a Nest Thermostat from any of thousands of websites and it would work just fine in my home. I can't even get a Steam Link app for free from anyone and have it work effortlessly on my iOS device. These two are not the same, no matter which side you are on.
- amarant 8y agocame here to say something similar. How is this not a breach of anti-trust/anti-competition laws?
- cup-of-tea 8y ago> People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services Whoa there, consumers are not the only people who matter. Suppliers are often exploited by monopolies. Have you never heard of the Fair Trade movement? Please do not forget about the suppliers of your cheap shit you don't need.
- saint_fiasco 8y agoAlso don't forget workers. Companies that engage in anti competitive practices in the market for their products often try to become monopsonist in the market for their workers.
- flintchip 8y agoCan you explain how Google pulling YouTube from the Firestick was good for consumers?
- int_19h 8y agoAn example of monopolistic Google behavior was when they refused to make a YouTube app for any Windows platform (Win8, and later Win10) - which is fine - but then they also blocked the app that Microsoft itself has developed. Because they control access to YouTube as a service, they could do that. And because YouTube is the place for videos on the Net, it hurt the platform pretty bad.
- rhodysurf 8y agoYou could still access YouTube through the web though couldn’t you?
- beavis2 8y agoDespite the two companies collaborating on an app based on HTML5, Microsoft's app is still breaking YouTube's terms of use. "Microsoft has not made the browser upgrades necessary to enable a fully-featured YouTube experience, and has instead re-released a YouTube app that violates our Terms of Service - It has been disabled. We value our broad developer community and therefore ask everyone to adhere to the same guidelines" https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-window-phone-youtube-app https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-win... My impression was Microsoft being arrogant. Besides, Windows 8/10 users could still access YT via web.
- jrs95 8y agoGoogle intentionally ignores issues Edge/IE users have with their products because they want them to switch to Chrome. This isn’t an issue of Microsoft making “browser upgrades”, it’s an issue of Google developing to and supporting Chrome and ignoring the rest of the web.
- fron 8y agoI don't blame anyone if they don't want to support Edge/IE. Microsoft's browsers are horrible to develop for. Personally I'd be much happier if more of my users would switch to Chrome.
- Doctor_Fegg 8y ago> actual monopolistic behavior > a significant share If it's only "a significant share" it's by definition not a monopoly.
- vetinari 8y agoActually, it could be a monopoly, see also Herfindahl-Hirschman index and other measures of market concentration.
- sgift 8y agoThe legislative term is "dominant market position", but that's too long, so everyone just uses monopoly, because it is far shorter and everyone can understand with a bit of thinking what is meant.
- Doctor_Fegg 8y agoSure. Given that 15-16% of smartphones sold worldwide are iPhones, "dominant" is about as much of a stretch as "monopoly".
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Chathamization 8y ago> People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services That's not really true, things like the abundance of counterfeit goods on Amazon (the result of Amazon's policies and its position) are really bad for consumers.
- bluthru 8y agoAmazon used to not carry Chromecast or Apple TV: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/12/19/amazon-sell-apple-tv-google-chromecast-again-after-spat/964099001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/12/19/amazon-s...
- trumped 8y agoIt's a bit ridiculous the amount of resources wasted by everyone having to please all these stores... maybe Europe will force them to come up with a standard so that 1 app will be compatible everywhere (a bit like HTML5) and prevent them from removing any non-malicious apps (which would be clearly defined and easy to understand for any non-attorney)...
- jakelazaroff 8y agoGiven that iPhones account for just 35% of US mobile phones [1] and only around 15% of phone shipments worldwide [2], this is in no way monopolistic. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/13/ios-and-samsung-market-share-now-tied-in-the-u-s/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/13/ios-and-samsung-market-sha... [2] https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/05/02/apples-iphone-bucks-smartphone-market-trends-gains-marketshare-in-q1 https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/05/02/apples-iphone-buc...
- lostmsu 8y agoIMO, it is time to redefine monopoly. Something, that affects a billion of users should not be let policing things like this.
- kartan 8y agoAntitrust laws may affect monopolies and oligopolies. oligopoly: a state of limited competition, in which a market is shared by a small number of producers or sellers.
- simonh 8y agoSuppose a majority of those users are perfectly fine with it, and enjoy the benefits of a carefully curated system? The fact that Apples policies are widely known and people still buy iPhones in the millions is pretty good evidence that Apple has a much better grip on what their users prefer than you do.
- cpuguy83 8y agoAt the same time (as an example) I have something like 150 movies I've bought on iTunes that I cannot bring to any other platform. So Apple locks-in users to their platform (as is everyone else) then they are using the control they have over their user base to lock out competition. This is the very definition of anti-competitive behavior.
- abritinthebay 8y ago
- Ar-Curunir 8y agoAh yes, let's suck off one corporate giant to demonstrate how bad another one is. Google regularly breaks their websites on browsers other than Chrome. Amazon doesn't sell popular devices competing with their Kindle line, and doesn't make it easy to install apps using Google Play Services on their Kindle devices.
- jmull 8y agoIt's pretty weird to excuse Google and Amazon's monopolistic practices because Apple has different monopolistic practices.
- pjc50 8y ago> "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services I'm suspicious of this given that both are shareholder-owned, eventually the shareholders are going to want a benefit too.
- jamesrcole 8y ago> this is what actual monopolistic behavior looks like. Apple ... abuses [its] power ... by ... artificially raising prices That's a strange thing to say in the context of digital games, where one of the biggest issues iOS game developers face is consumers not being willing to spend more than trifling amounts for games.
- sidlls 8y agoI'd question your use of "benefit" and "low prices". Some of their services do not require purchase with currency. That doesn't mean the price for using them is low. It's just different (and often hidden, or outright incalculable).
- Doctor_Fegg 8y ago> People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers Google being the de facto gatekeeper to the web, able to enforce its own whims (such as AMP), "only benefits consumers"? Please.
- baxtr 8y agoThis is like saying BMW, Toyota and the like have a monopoly because you can’t use your own infotainment software. There are enough alternatives to the iPhone.
- shawnz 8y ago> This is like saying BMW, Toyota and the like have a monopoly because you can’t use your own infotainment software. Maybe if BMW or Toyota were the market leaders in infotainment hardware
- dahart 8y ago> let's hope this ridiculous practice is stopped soon. I agree that these are monopolies, but it's interesting to me that the behavior in question is viewed as competitive and healthy when a company is small. The primary thing that makes the practice ridiculous is success; becoming so large that what were competitive behaviors become anti-competitive. The same things that people applauded Apple for when it was underdog 20 years ago, are now criticized.
- s3r3nity 8y agoBut Apple doesn't have a significant share of the mobile phone industry - Android (Google) does - with I believe Samsung leading the way. So how can it be monopolistic? The comparisons in other posts is not quite apples - to - apples (no pun intended) because you can't be a monopoly when you're not in a dominant market position. Lastly, whether or not the examples you mention "benefit" customers today is irrelevant, as you need to consider the possibility that their dominant position would mean that they might not in the future (i.e. customers not acting in their best long-term interest, or companies leveraging their market dominance in the future for non-customer-centric behavior, etc.) Platitudes like "don't be evil" don't persuade me much. Edit: don't know why folks are down-voting a comment about US anti-trust law.
- dgaaaaaaaaaa 8y agoApple has 60% of market-share in high-end phone market (worldwide, it's higher in US). Oh, it is a major player
- s3r3nity 8y ago"High-end phone market" is a specious market definition, though. When you look at "smartphone market share" or even "smartphone OS market share," it's a top player, sure, but not the dominant one (Android is still multiples of iOS.)
- dingaling 8y agoBut only about 20-25% of the overall market.
- mygo 8y agowhat next? We’ll be suing Apple for holding the monopoly on MacOS?
- westoque 8y agoI completely agree. But on the flipside, having that control gives you a more secure and robust environment (app store) _almost_ free of spam and phising apps (Windows app store anyone?)