5 ms·

If Microsoft couldn’t force their way into the phone market late, no way a startup was going to.

wdn 8y ago
Microsoft made a bad decision. The 950 was too expensive. They should have take a loss at the 950 and get the phone to customer's hand. No phone no developers.
- ggg9990 8y ago
  Windows Phone was dead as a doornail long before the 950.
  - toast0 8y ago
    I really wanted Windows Phone to do better, so I may be somewhat biased, but WP 8.1 was reasonable, and they were making progress with market share at the low end. In my opinion Windows Mobile 10 fizzled out because of a few reasons; the most important reason was organizational changes meant nobody cared about Windows 10 on the phone, and the releases were pretty bad for the first year. The other important one was that for quite some time, the 950 was the only phone it was reasonable to buy that had it, and it was too expensive. The 650 was basically the same hardware as the 640, but shipped with WM 10, and was more expensive. Also, they had promised all WP8 devices would be upgradable to Windows 10, but then they pulled it back for low memory devices (which makes sense, because it was sloowwwwww, but still)
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    They were reaching 10% across Europe when Microsoft gave up on WP.
jacquesm 8y ago
Microsoft cut-and-run, they could have just stuck to it like they did with the Xbox and in the long term it probably would have worked out for them. But their initial models were rushed to market and their Nokia strategy didn't make much sense.
- jklinger410 8y ago
  They also tried to bring their Video Game UI to the phone after a phone UI had already been established. Then it felt dirty for them to dial back to generic android. They could have been successful if they wanted to just make a phone, but they wanted to make the phone on their terms.
  - nine_k 8y ago
    Interestingly, the UI was among the most praised features of windows phones, and still has a number of fans.
    - lagadu 8y ago
      Windows Phone refugee here: going back to Android was a massive step back in user experience, It's been over 2 years and I'm still angry at Microsoft for dropping the ball on WP.
- FractalLP 8y ago
  Yea...there were definitely fans like me. When I would show others, it wasn't completely uncommon for them to go out and buy one the next week. The marketing was terrible though.
- jrs95 8y ago
  They launched a product that wasn't good enough and harmed their brand, then what customers they actually had they fucked over with the next release. Windows Phone 7 and 8 were both bad at this, and then they did it again with the transition to Windows 10 Mobile, at which point there was almost no chance of being able to put a market together. In a way this was because the phone didn't utilize Microsoft's strengths effectively enough to acheieve consumer success, as well as a general strategic problem with Windows and it's design in general. They should have made the first release basically an XBox phone if they wanted to get consumers on board. Gamers are a target audience that would be willing to make sacrifices to jump onto the platform and establish a user base, which is required to develop a decent ecosystem. The whole 'Metro' interface has really been a failure for Microsoft as well. They should have simply stuck to Aero or a derivative of it, and kept mobile and desktop computing separate as Apple has. And of course there's the whole issue of timing. Ballmer didn't seem to take iPhone seriously while Google did and they took immediate action to establish a viable alternative. Had Microsoft had their eye on the ball, it very well could have been them dominating the smartphone market. Or at least they could have been a third platform that actually survived.
melling 8y ago
That's because Microsoft completely lost its lead in the smartphone market, and people no longer wanted Microsoft software on their phones. Some form of Windows Mobile held close to 20% of the market before Apple came along with the iPhone. Selling an Android in an Android world is completely different.
nostromo 8y ago
Microsoft and Amazon and Facebook (with HTC). It's obviously not an easy space to enter.
- askvictor 8y ago
  Especially considering Amazon and Facebook didn't have to bootstrap a developer community.
jonknee 8y ago
Microsoft failed because they wanted their own OS, I bet they could ship a rocking Android phone (but that's strategically opposed to their perceived best interest).
- sethhochberg 8y ago
  If whatever team did the hardware design on the Zune line is still around, I'd buy the fruits of their labor in a heartbeat. The Zune HD is still one of my all-time favorite consumer electronics devices.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    They are busy with other stuff. "Courageous Design – embracing successes and failures through iteration. : Build 2018" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5MGVbRLHaQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5MGVbRLHaQ
joezydeco 8y ago
Unless a larger company hungry to get into the smartphone market wanted to buy Essential. Rubin totally knows how the Google acquihire system works and how others emulate it.
- ttul 8y ago
  Or, building a phone was just a way to attract capital while behind the scenes you are actually working on the next big category.
  - prklmn 8y ago
    In this environment he would have had a difficult time not attracting capital working on the next big category.
ajkjk 8y ago
Since their effort was making a crappy product and desperately hyping it up, they shouldn't get credited as seriously trying.
rifung 8y ago
Although I agree with the point you're trying to make, I'm not sure this is the best example. If Microsoft/Nokia just sold (near) stock Android phones, I would have bought them in a heartbeat.
tinus_hn 8y ago
Although Microsoft has a lot of money in the bank they also have a very bad reputation for abandoning technologies a few years after they are introduced. At least a startup can avoid that.
- surfmike 8y ago
  Not any worse than Google. They did enter a bit late and Android and iOS had enough momentum that most app developers couldn't be bothered to make a Windows phone app.
blackrock 8y ago
What the hell happened to Microsoft's design aesthetics? Windows 7 started by making all the taskbar active app buttons similar. If you had multiple application windows open, with multiple app buttons, then you couldn't easily tell which window was the active window. This continues to be a frustration. Windows 8 was a colossal mistake. They pushed a tablet design, for everyone with a PC. You had to simulate the swipe-from-the-right, by clicking and dragging your mouse from the right side of the screen. Huh? Who thought this was a good idea? And this level of mistake came from a seasoned OS manufacturer? How idiotic was this team? Windows 9, I mean, 10, was, is a hideous nightmare to use. It's UI is still half-baked. They killed all colors, that helped to give identifying information on an icon or a text, and made everything flat and gray. It's like I went color blind, and have to look at everything in black and white. This makes it harder to use. Office, they went over-board with the flat design. Things that used to be easy to identify before, are now more difficult, because they removed color from their interface. Windows phone. Why would I want Live Tiles that constantly flip on me, for no apparent reason? Every time it flips, it just constantly asks for my attention. This was a poor design choice. And also, the flat design, and lack of color on their Windows phone. Everything is all one color, which means that I have to look at every icon, to identify what program I want to open. Whereas with the iPhone, I just look for the icon with a particular color, like red. Of course, this is just my personal opinion. And there are people who love the flat designs, and Microsoft's decisions to make everything ugly and more difficult to use.

wdn 8y ago

Microsoft made a bad decision. The 950 was too expensive. They should have take a loss at the 950 and get the phone to customer's hand. No phone no developers.

ggg9990 8y ago
Windows Phone was dead as a doornail long before the 950.
- toast0 8y ago
  I really wanted Windows Phone to do better, so I may be somewhat biased, but WP 8.1 was reasonable, and they were making progress with market share at the low end. In my opinion Windows Mobile 10 fizzled out because of a few reasons; the most important reason was organizational changes meant nobody cared about Windows 10 on the phone, and the releases were pretty bad for the first year. The other important one was that for quite some time, the 950 was the only phone it was reasonable to buy that had it, and it was too expensive. The 650 was basically the same hardware as the 640, but shipped with WM 10, and was more expensive. Also, they had promised all WP8 devices would be upgradable to Windows 10, but then they pulled it back for low memory devices (which makes sense, because it was sloowwwwww, but still)
- pjmlp 8y ago
  They were reaching 10% across Europe when Microsoft gave up on WP.

jacquesm 8y ago

Microsoft cut-and-run, they could have just stuck to it like they did with the Xbox and in the long term it probably would have worked out for them. But their initial models were rushed to market and their Nokia strategy didn't make much sense.

jklinger410 8y ago
They also tried to bring their Video Game UI to the phone after a phone UI had already been established. Then it felt dirty for them to dial back to generic android. They could have been successful if they wanted to just make a phone, but they wanted to make the phone on their terms.
- nine_k 8y ago
  Interestingly, the UI was among the most praised features of windows phones, and still has a number of fans.
  - lagadu 8y ago
    Windows Phone refugee here: going back to Android was a massive step back in user experience, It's been over 2 years and I'm still angry at Microsoft for dropping the ball on WP.
FractalLP 8y ago
Yea...there were definitely fans like me. When I would show others, it wasn't completely uncommon for them to go out and buy one the next week. The marketing was terrible though.
jrs95 8y ago
They launched a product that wasn't good enough and harmed their brand, then what customers they actually had they fucked over with the next release. Windows Phone 7 and 8 were both bad at this, and then they did it again with the transition to Windows 10 Mobile, at which point there was almost no chance of being able to put a market together. In a way this was because the phone didn't utilize Microsoft's strengths effectively enough to acheieve consumer success, as well as a general strategic problem with Windows and it's design in general. They should have made the first release basically an XBox phone if they wanted to get consumers on board. Gamers are a target audience that would be willing to make sacrifices to jump onto the platform and establish a user base, which is required to develop a decent ecosystem. The whole 'Metro' interface has really been a failure for Microsoft as well. They should have simply stuck to Aero or a derivative of it, and kept mobile and desktop computing separate as Apple has. And of course there's the whole issue of timing. Ballmer didn't seem to take iPhone seriously while Google did and they took immediate action to establish a viable alternative. Had Microsoft had their eye on the ball, it very well could have been them dominating the smartphone market. Or at least they could have been a third platform that actually survived.

melling 8y ago

That's because Microsoft completely lost its lead in the smartphone market, and people no longer wanted Microsoft software on their phones. Some form of Windows Mobile held close to 20% of the market before Apple came along with the iPhone. Selling an Android in an Android world is completely different.

nostromo 8y ago

Microsoft and Amazon and Facebook (with HTC). It's obviously not an easy space to enter.

askvictor 8y ago
Especially considering Amazon and Facebook didn't have to bootstrap a developer community.

jonknee 8y ago

Microsoft failed because they wanted their own OS, I bet they could ship a rocking Android phone (but that's strategically opposed to their perceived best interest).

sethhochberg 8y ago
If whatever team did the hardware design on the Zune line is still around, I'd buy the fruits of their labor in a heartbeat. The Zune HD is still one of my all-time favorite consumer electronics devices.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  They are busy with other stuff. "Courageous Design – embracing successes and failures through iteration. : Build 2018" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5MGVbRLHaQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5MGVbRLHaQ

joezydeco 8y ago

Unless a larger company hungry to get into the smartphone market wanted to buy Essential. Rubin totally knows how the Google acquihire system works and how others emulate it.

ttul 8y ago
Or, building a phone was just a way to attract capital while behind the scenes you are actually working on the next big category.
- prklmn 8y ago
  In this environment he would have had a difficult time not attracting capital working on the next big category.

ajkjk 8y ago

Since their effort was making a crappy product and desperately hyping it up, they shouldn't get credited as seriously trying.

rifung 8y ago

Although I agree with the point you're trying to make, I'm not sure this is the best example. If Microsoft/Nokia just sold (near) stock Android phones, I would have bought them in a heartbeat.

tinus_hn 8y ago

Although Microsoft has a lot of money in the bank they also have a very bad reputation for abandoning technologies a few years after they are introduced. At least a startup can avoid that.

surfmike 8y ago
Not any worse than Google. They did enter a bit late and Android and iOS had enough momentum that most app developers couldn't be bothered to make a Windows phone app.

blackrock 8y ago

What the hell happened to Microsoft's design aesthetics? Windows 7 started by making all the taskbar active app buttons similar. If you had multiple application windows open, with multiple app buttons, then you couldn't easily tell which window was the active window. This continues to be a frustration. Windows 8 was a colossal mistake. They pushed a tablet design, for everyone with a PC. You had to simulate the swipe-from-the-right, by clicking and dragging your mouse from the right side of the screen. Huh? Who thought this was a good idea? And this level of mistake came from a seasoned OS manufacturer? How idiotic was this team? Windows 9, I mean, 10, was, is a hideous nightmare to use. It's UI is still half-baked. They killed all colors, that helped to give identifying information on an icon or a text, and made everything flat and gray. It's like I went color blind, and have to look at everything in black and white. This makes it harder to use. Office, they went over-board with the flat design. Things that used to be easy to identify before, are now more difficult, because they removed color from their interface. Windows phone. Why would I want Live Tiles that constantly flip on me, for no apparent reason? Every time it flips, it just constantly asks for my attention. This was a poor design choice. And also, the flat design, and lack of color on their Windows phone. Everything is all one color, which means that I have to look at every icon, to identify what program I want to open. Whereas with the iPhone, I just look for the icon with a particular color, like red. Of course, this is just my personal opinion. And there are people who love the flat designs, and Microsoft's decisions to make everything ugly and more difficult to use.