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Kubernetes Containerd Integration Goes GA
- jdoliner 8y agoThis looks to be the beginning of the "extinguish" step from Google. They've executed the embrace, extend, extinguish playbook to a T with Docker.
- bryanlarsen 8y agoThe top contributors to containerd are all from Docker.
- jrs95 8y agoGoogle is just one of many organizations involved in Kubernetes. If this has anything to do with embrace, extend, extinguish, it's to prevent Docker as a company from attempting to do anything like that to Kubernetes. Edit: I take that last part back. This seems to ensure that neither party can easily fuck each other over, and that's a good thing.
- stingraycharles 8y agoTo be fair, Kubernetes was a big competitor to Docker Swarm and Docker’s own Cloud, which kind of lost the battle. One has to wonder what would have happened if Google did not build Kubernetes, which heavily embraced Docker. Sometimes it’s not all that black and white, Google seems to mainly be afraid of one competitor becoming too powerful and losing control. Android vs iPhone being another example.
- bboreham 8y agoGoogle’s competitor here is AWS. AWS’ comparable product is ECS. ECS also lost. Roll on EKS.
- justicezyx 8y agoYou missed the point. It should have been the battle of Docker to take on incubate VM-based compute providers.
- bboreham 8y agoApparently I also miss your point, because I cannot parse it. Did you mean “incumbent”?
- jimmy1 8y agoAnd the biggest reason ECS lost imo because of the poor load balancing and service discovery options. They just now released Route 53 service discovery via DNS but it might be too little too late.
- Rapzid 8y agoI believe those are just symptoms of the underlying issue; AWS's closed off and slow roll development practices simply could not keep up. They tried to rectify the situation with Blox; I'm honestly not sure how that is going. When you ask about attaching EFS or EBS to services in fargate and they ask what your use case for that is... In the words of Drake; "...we gonna see."
- geerlingguy 8y agoYeah, no EFS in Fargate is a deal-breaker; we manage our own nodes in ECS right now, just because we want EFS support. It was kind of too-little-too-late, same thing with Route53 DNS-based service discovery—it's annoying when you feel nickel-and-dimed into adding an (relatively expensive, IMHO) ELB/ALB per service to be able to direct requests to the backend. I'm hoping EKS will evolve a lot more quickly and stay up to date with the upstream; it would be awesome if AWS has full and stable support for all the major bits like persistent volumes (on EFS or EBS), LoadBalancers (ELBs/ALBs, hopefully more configurable someday), etc. It sounds like the beta period is over and AWS is ramping up for EKS' GA soon.
- 8y ago
- jrs95 8y agoEven if there was no Kubernetes, both Mesos and Nomad seem better than Docker Swarm depending on your use case. I don't know if Docker really would have been very successful even if Kubernetes didn't exist.
- numbsafari 8y agoDocker Swarm was announced ~6 mos. after Kubernetes was announced. Similarly, Kubernetes 1.0 release was 6 mos. before Swarm's 1.0 release. Personally, Docker's big mistake was killing off dotCloud so quickly instead of gradually migrating it to Docker.
- tannhaeuser 8y agoI have no stake in this, and am in no position to make any judgement at all, but I'm still hesitant to conclude that K8s has "won" or something. There was a story here two weeks ago about the absurd complexity of it. All I know is that it's heavily promoted left and right, and like for most tech products this decade, big media has won the attention grab, and has been successful in creating the perception that k8s is the orchestration software most people are using or look forward to using. Not saying it isn't, but I've yet to see any figures supporting that statement. What Google is up to here is pretty clear IMHO: they want to be perceived as the go-to provider for k8s based clouds. It's not like the iPhone-vs-Android situation at all where Google's goal is to maintain influence over advertising channels rather than push Android sales per se.
- ironjunkie 8y agoWhat google wants to do is to make their complement cheap. ie, they want to make Kubernetes an open-source de-facto solution so that people can spend more money on cloud providers.
- raducu 8y agoI have a very limited experience with kubernetes, and to me it is indeed very complex (as a user). I can only imagine how complicated it would be to offer a kubernetes solution as a cloud provider. So all of the complexity works in favor of google, but as long as users actually use it, it's a fair game.
- bonesss 8y agoIf Google wants to be the go-to provider of clouds their open source Kubernetes strategy is pretty backwards. As it stands, though, they've got their competitors reselling their orchestration platform technology giving them platform control moreso than a selling point for their cloud. > I'm still hesitant to conclude that K8s has "won" or something Take a look at Azures container offerings (kubernetes itself or kubernetes compatible), along with the AWS equivalents. All three major cloud platforms have managed kubernetes solutions now. That doesn't mean competing orchestrators are dead, but they're hiding in their bunkers hoping that the worst is over... > There was a story here two weeks ago about the absurd complexity of it. Yeah it's absurdly complex, except when compared to the absurd rats-nest of almost-there not-quite-compatible technologies it has replaced ;) There are lighter weight solutions for lighter weight problems, but map the DevOps cycle from A to Z and Kubernetes is head-and-shoulders simpler than competing solutions. Simpler, more comprehensive, standardized, and better documented. Add in cross-cloud portability and you've got something hard to compete with.
- organsnyder 8y ago? Per the announcement, Docker Engine is also built on containerd.
- jrs95 8y agoSeems like more of the usual FUD that shows up on literally every post about Kubernetes regardless of the context.
- waffle_ss 8y agoBut Docker created containerd to begin with...? https://www.docker.com/docker-news-and-press/docker-extracts-and-donates-containerd-its-core-container-runtime-accelerate https://www.docker.com/docker-news-and-press/docker-extracts...
- wmf 8y agoIt sure looks like there was a plan to completely eliminate Docker and replace it with CRI-O and it looks like Docker Inc. responded to that plan by creating containerd so they could maintain some level of relevance. So yes, Docker can stay involved as long as they deliver what k8s wants, but k8s is clearly in the driver's seat now.
- auslander 8y ago> This looks to be the beginning of the "extinguish" step from Google. They've executed the embrace, extend, extinguish playbook to a T with Docker. True. Also: - email. Keeping your own server unblocked by Gmail is a loosing battle. - Web. Google AMP. Use it or get lost in search results. - Android. Try make a phone with open source Android without Google apps and licensing.
- nu-world-odor 8y agoBetter Title: Pactainerd Man: how containerd ate all the dots
- lobster_johnson 8y agoThis is great. Anyone know what Google's plans are when it comes to rolling this out on GKE?
- thesandlord 8y ago> Containerd 1.1 works with Kubernetes 1.10 and above Kubernetes 1.10 just came out on GKE, so I assume it should work today! https://cloudplatform.googleblog.com/2018/05/Google-Kubernetes-Engine-1-10-is-generally-available-and-ready-for-the-enterprise.html https://cloudplatform.googleblog.com/2018/05/Google-Kubernet... (Note: I haven't personally tried this out. I also work for GCP)
- lobster_johnson 8y agoI don't see it mentioned in the GKE release notes, so I assume there's no option to enable it yet.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- erikb 8y agoThe fact that A is tested to work with B doesn't necessarily mean that a packaged service will provide both A and B, though.
- Random-Liu 8y agoDisclaimer: I work in Google, wrote the blog post. We are working on rolling out containerd 1.1 to GKE alpha cluster. If everything goes as expected, it will be available in GKE alpha cluster soon.
- simonebrunozzi 8y agoFor the few that are not familiar with the acronym GA, that means General Availability. Typically this means the removal of a "beta" tag, and a general expectation of a service that is supposed to be available for most of the time, and not have significant security issues or bugs. In some cases a GA release is accompanied by an SLA (Service Level Agreement), e.g. uptime of 99.9% measured monthly. I know, it sounds obvious. You might be tempted to downvote me :) And yet, when I was a tech evangelist and later a CTO, I realized the importance of being as clear as possible when explaining things (including titles). You would be surprised at how many people got lost with even the most basic acronym.
- rdsubhas 8y agoModern GA literally means generally available, as in: > that service seems to be down! > huh, its generally available...
- alpb 8y agoIn Kubernetes terms (and the context of this feature), GA means stability (rather than SLA). When a Kubernetes feature is in alpha/beta, it may go through breaking changes between releases. For this feature, it means it is no longer considered an experiment and is recommended for production use. For Kubernetes API, alpha/beta process and the deprecation policy is documented here: https://kubernetes.io/docs/reference/using-api/deprecation-policy/ https://kubernetes.io/docs/reference/using-api/deprecation-p...
- joshwa 8y agoHow about something for the few that are not familiar with 'containerd' ?
- takeda 8y agoMy understanding is that it replaces docker for running the containers.
- nineteen999 8y agoI asked myself the same question a little while back, and landed here: https://blog.docker.com/2017/08/what-is-containerd-runtime/ https://blog.docker.com/2017/08/what-is-containerd-runtime/ Although I ended up coming out of it with more acronyms in hand, and perhaps only slightly less confusion than when I went into it.
- esseti 8y agoI'm familiar with K8 and docker, but not with Containerd. does this means that now K8 supports containers that are not created with docker but rather with Containerd ? is that correcet? if so, what's the benefit? i miss some background here.
- chupasaurus 8y agoDocker daemon is running on top of containerd, so it was an additional layer which could be avoided and that's exactly what was done. The benefit is less latency and resource consumption.
- neic 8y agoDo you mean K8s as an abbreviation for Kubernetes, or am I again out of the loop with some new tech in this fast moving field?
- sewer_bird 8y agoIndeed, K8s is a numeronym[0] for K(ubernete)s. [0] Compare i18n, g11n, and i10n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeronym https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeronym
- neic 8y agoYes, but the GP uses K8, not K8s.
- auslander 8y agoAWS ECS was GA in 2015. With load balancing, autoscaling, health and update management. Just saying :)
- auslander 8y agoHmm ... Does Google has its own troll factory? Whenever I say something against it, downvotes come, always without replies.
- asey 8y agoIt's because your comment belies your understanding of the article and the nature of the announcement. It makes no sense to compare AWS ECS in it's entirety to the rollout of containerd. The correct comparison in your case would be with Kubernetes Engine against ECS.