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Is it so hard to believe that there's a creator maybe?
by rashthedude 8y ago
Is it so hard to believe that there's a creator maybe?
- NateyJay 8y agoWhy not both?
- IanDrake 8y agoIt’s not hard to “believe”, but it’s impossible to prove. Theological debates usually end up with the creationist position being that belief without proof equals faith, there for proof is not desired. Science is skepticism, religion is unquestionable; the two are opposites.
- kmm 8y agoReligion isn't unquestionable, doubt is a key to faith. There's an entire academic discipline devoted to critically studying the divine, theology. That is not an excuse for avoiding and denying any insight into creation or trying to fill the gap with gods of course. I strongly disagree with the thread starter's sentiment
- infinite8s 8y agoDoes it critically study the basis for itself, or does it start with that 'immaculate' presumption.
- IanDrake 8y agoI didn’t mean to suggest that one is not allowed to question religion (these days), I meant questioning religion becomes either a useless spiral of circular logic or you finally wind up at the point I made about faith. That’s been my experience at least. All that said, reading Jordan Peterson’s book has increased my opinion of the Bible and the knowledge about the human condition that it contains, but as an allegory, not a literal history.
- OscarCunningham 8y agoSure maybe. But there's a long way from "life was intentionally created on Earth" to "an interventionist God created the entire universe". Perhaps aliens seeded life on Earth. So even if the appearence of life on Earth couldn't be otherwise explained, I don't think it would be particularly compelling evidence for the kind of religion that people tend to believe.
- fenomas 8y agoNot if there's evidence of one, no. Why, do you have some?
- ralfd 8y agoThe existence of the universe itself
- erric 8y agoApologists have used the same argument for the last several hundred years and have done nothing to push the discussion forward.
- invalidusernam3 8y agoThe only thing that proves is that the universe exists. Claiming that someone created it is only moving the question, because who then made the creator?
- rashthedude 8y agoThis is a very famous point raised by theologians many centuries ago. Circular reasoning can hardly count as valid. What if the creator always existed? And besides no major religion deals with this point so I wouldn't have an answer.
- erric 8y agoWhat if the universe has always existed, and every few billion years or so, a portion of it explodes outwards into a completely new direction of space?
- castis 8y agoSo the existence of something is proof that it was created purposefully?
- rashthedude 8y ago
- tzahola 8y agoJe n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothèse-là.
- erric 8y agoWell, yes. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- rashthedude 8y agoThe most extraordinary claim is that we are here by 'chance' or a happy 'accident' rather than a supreme being putting us here.
- erric 8y agoNow you're just shifting the argument.
- alpaca128 8y agoWho/what created the creator then? And please don't say "the creator has always been there", because the same could be said about a universe to make a creator redundant...
- andrewflnr 8y agoSince that argument cuts exactly as well both ways, why bring it up at all? We're talking about information content here more than metaphysics.
- rashthedude 8y agoNot quite. Since we know the markup of the chemicals of the universe we also know that it has a beginning and an end date or simply put that energy was required to set it off. That would explain that it can't be timeless whereas we simply do not have any attributes or what the creator is made of hence can't come to a conclusion regarding his mortality
- white-flame 8y agoCausality is a concept found in this universe/reality. All meta-reality concepts like causality, time, place, identity, information, and such originating from within are underjustified for considerations outside it.
- Voloskaya 8y agoBelieving is not hard no, anyone can believe whatever they want. What is hard is proving that what you believe is true.
- rashthedude 8y agoOr for the other side to prove that you are wrong. Let's be honest here, none of us can "proof" the existence or non existence of a creator but we have been endowed with intelligence and humility to hopefully come to the right conclusion.
- erric 8y agoSo game over, you win because humility?
- Voloskaya 8y ago> Let's be honest here, none of us can "proof" the existence or non existence of a creator. Indeed, let's be honest, we cannot prove anything. > but we have been endowed with intelligence and humility to hopefully come to the right conclusion. So then, the right conclusion would simply be that we don't know, right? You are free to have some preference, i.e, you prefer that a creators exists, and that's fine, but as you said earlier, let's be honest we cannot prove it. So with the humility that was endowed to us, let's just acknowledge what we don't know. And that's why people are trying to understand :)