5 ms·

I don't know where to start with writing an emulator. Any ideas?

leggomylibro 8y ago
Ditto - I've been wanting to do one on a small ARM Cortex-M core, but it's bewildering to even think about where to start. It seems like people have put together a lot of good documentation for old systems though, which could at least be a good place to start reading: https://problemkaputt.de/gbatek.htm https://problemkaputt.de/gbatek.htm
- jwhitlark 8y ago
  Chip8 is a good one to cut your teeth on. Very simple, good examples, does not take too long, but once you've done it, its much easier to see how more complex ones could work.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Try this Assembly tutorial https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/ https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/ It has enough for doing 2D games bare metal on ARM. And then you can jump into PiFox. https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pifox-bare-metal-arm-assembly-language-star-fox/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pifox-bare-metal-arm-assemb...
  - burfog 8y ago
    The upside is that the Raspberry Pi has good documentation. The downside is that you'll need to emulate 4 cores plus a GPU. Guest software (the stuff being emulated) may fail if the cores aren't decently fast. You may also need to do USB, audio, wireless LAN, and Ethernet.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      I understood that leggomylibro would like to learn the hardware first, before getting into emulation. Hence the idea of learning ARM Assembly, I guess I got it wrong.
  - leggomylibro 8y ago
    Well I've already gotten simple 2D games working in bare-metal ARM with OLED and TFT displays, it's more the emulation aspect of things that is intimidating. ARM Cortex-M cores are also a bit different from the Application-class processors used in boards like the Raspberry Pi. They are closer to an Arduino than a "real computer".
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Yeah, I guess I misunderstood you. That is how we did 8 and 16 bit coding on home micros back in the day. :) My favourite SOC is the ESP32, but I guess it already has too much hardware to emulate and isn't an ARM anyway.
      - leggomylibro 8y ago
        Haha, no worries - embedded stuff sometimes feels so confusing that I think I misunderstand myself most of the time. Yeah, I've wanted to learn more about the ESP32 - it seems like people have done some really cool stuff with it and it looks like you get a lot of power and connectivity. But I'll bet you can empathize with not having enough hours in the day!
        pjmlp 8y ago
        Yup, my github repo is full of useless, unfinished stuff. :)
- makapuf 8y ago
  I ported a gb emulator on baremetal custom diy arm32 console with 192k of ram and 168mhz. The challenge was that the video signal is generated in realtime, like no framebuffer. http://bitboxconsole.blogspot.fr/2014/01/bitboy-bitbox-emulator-for-bitbox.html?m=1 http://bitboxconsole.blogspot.fr/2014/01/bitboy-bitbox-emula...
  - leggomylibro 8y ago
    Oh, cool! Thanks for that link, the STM32F4 is pretty close to the F0/L0/L4 series that I've been learning about; I was actually thinking of using an L082KZ to start with because it has a lot of Flash, built-in EEPROM, a simple M0+ core, and is easy to hand-solder. Cool idea using VGA as the output; was that hard, or could you just use the DACs normally? I was looking into parallel LCD interfaces for awhile - some F4 cores have a 24-bit RGB LCD peripheral - but they look complicated and I'm still puttering around with SPI OLED/TFT displays. Anyways, looks like a really cool project!
totallynotadev 8y ago
You might want to start with a CHIP-8 emulator. There are a lot of guides on the web, and it isn't a giant time commitment.
eropple 8y ago
I started with the MOS 6502, the core of the NES, Atari 2600, C64, and a bunch of others. I wrote it in order to build a really simple NES emulator, and I found the chip super approachable and easy to deal with--there just isn't much to it. Documentation is easy to find, too.
- zellyn 8y ago
  Agreed. If you have 6502 nostalgia, there are some really good tests, and you can basically just keep fixing test failures until they all go away, and you'll have a working chip emulation. https://github.com/Klaus2m5/6502_65C02_functional_tests https://github.com/Klaus2m5/6502_65C02_functional_tests is what I used.
pubby 8y ago
You could try writing a homebrew game for an old system. That's a pretty good way to learn things. Once you start on the emulator, the first thing you'll do is emulate the CPU, which can be done as a big switch statement inside of a loop. Knowing how to code each instruction is easy when you have an instruction listing handy. Here's a quick example of how I would write an emulator, with 2 opcodes already implemented (6502 assembly): https://pastebin.com/raw/PhCEqh35 https://pastebin.com/raw/PhCEqh35 And the instruction listing I used: http://obelisk.me.uk/6502/reference.html#AND http://obelisk.me.uk/6502/reference.html#AND
- TimTheTinker 8y ago
  Is `while(true)` preferable to `for(;;)` to get an infinite loop? The compiler probably optimizes the condition check out, so I doubt it really matters.
  - souprock 8y ago
    The compiler won't care unless you "#define true 0". The "for(;;)" loop is easier and faster for the human to parse. It stands out in source code. With the "while(true)", you have to pay attention. It could be "while(tnie)" or "while(trua)". Whenever you see it, you have to read carefully.
  - a_e_k 8y ago
    When I tested this in the distant past, I found that all the compilers I tried generated exactly the same assembly for both loops. I've seen it said that "The most optimizing compiler is the most normalizing compiler." [1] The infinite loop structure is pretty easy to normalize. The only real difference that I saw was that some compiler front ends would produce warnings that the condition in the while loop was always true, where they seemed to assume the empty for must be intentional. [1] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-705.pdf https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-705.pdf
corysama 8y ago
http://emulator101.com http://emulator101.com
rpeden 8y ago
This might seem like a roundabout way to start, but I'd recommend Code by Charles Petzold[0]. It starts out with just wires, switches, and relays, and as the book progresses he goes through the process of building up a simple CPU and RAM one step at a time. The book even walks you through coming up with opcodes and assembly language. Even if you already know this stuff, I found the book was helpful in developing an intuitive feel for how everything works and fits together. After reading it, you'd probably have a good mental model of how you'd want to approach writing an emulator. The Nand to Tetris courses and their accompanying textbook would probably be helpful here too[1][2]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Code-Language-Computer-Hardware-Software/dp/0735611319 https://www.amazon.com/Code-Language-Computer-Hardware-Softw... [1] https://www.coursera.org/learn/build-a-computer https://www.coursera.org/learn/build-a-computer [2] https://www.coursera.org/learn/nand2tetris2 https://www.coursera.org/learn/nand2tetris2
segmondy 8y ago
learn assembly, learn how it maps to opcodes. learn microelectronics and learn about cpu, registers, memory layout, cpu flags, etc. it becomes obvious. i wrote a 6800 emulator just from having this background knowledge and no reference in my college years. I did it because I didn't want to go to the labs early saturday morning to fight over the few 6800 hardware. I could write my code, run, debug, show up just as the lab is ending and hand in my work and go home.
aquova 8y ago
I've been looking into writing an emulator for a while now. There are some excellent references for specific systems, but one of the best sources I've found is here: http://www.codeslinger.co.uk/pages/basics.html http://www.codeslinger.co.uk/pages/basics.html In addition to having source code for several different emulators, they've written a ~150 page document about emulator development. It's easily the best resource I've seen on the subject.
OhDagny 8y ago
PDP-8 has a minimal number of opcodes.

Ditto - I've been wanting to do one on a small ARM Cortex-M core, but it's bewildering to even think about where to start. It seems like people have put together a lot of good documentation for old systems though, which could at least be a good place to start reading: https://problemkaputt.de/gbatek.htm https://problemkaputt.de/gbatek.htm

jwhitlark 8y ago
Chip8 is a good one to cut your teeth on. Very simple, good examples, does not take too long, but once you've done it, its much easier to see how more complex ones could work.
pjmlp 8y ago
Try this Assembly tutorial https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/ https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/ It has enough for doing 2D games bare metal on ARM. And then you can jump into PiFox. https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pifox-bare-metal-arm-assembly-language-star-fox/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pifox-bare-metal-arm-assemb...
- burfog 8y ago
  The upside is that the Raspberry Pi has good documentation. The downside is that you'll need to emulate 4 cores plus a GPU. Guest software (the stuff being emulated) may fail if the cores aren't decently fast. You may also need to do USB, audio, wireless LAN, and Ethernet.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    I understood that leggomylibro would like to learn the hardware first, before getting into emulation. Hence the idea of learning ARM Assembly, I guess I got it wrong.
- leggomylibro 8y ago
  Well I've already gotten simple 2D games working in bare-metal ARM with OLED and TFT displays, it's more the emulation aspect of things that is intimidating. ARM Cortex-M cores are also a bit different from the Application-class processors used in boards like the Raspberry Pi. They are closer to an Arduino than a "real computer".
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Yeah, I guess I misunderstood you. That is how we did 8 and 16 bit coding on home micros back in the day. :) My favourite SOC is the ESP32, but I guess it already has too much hardware to emulate and isn't an ARM anyway.
    - leggomylibro 8y ago
      Haha, no worries - embedded stuff sometimes feels so confusing that I think I misunderstand myself most of the time. Yeah, I've wanted to learn more about the ESP32 - it seems like people have done some really cool stuff with it and it looks like you get a lot of power and connectivity. But I'll bet you can empathize with not having enough hours in the day!
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Yup, my github repo is full of useless, unfinished stuff. :)
makapuf 8y ago
I ported a gb emulator on baremetal custom diy arm32 console with 192k of ram and 168mhz. The challenge was that the video signal is generated in realtime, like no framebuffer. http://bitboxconsole.blogspot.fr/2014/01/bitboy-bitbox-emulator-for-bitbox.html?m=1 http://bitboxconsole.blogspot.fr/2014/01/bitboy-bitbox-emula...
- leggomylibro 8y ago
  Oh, cool! Thanks for that link, the STM32F4 is pretty close to the F0/L0/L4 series that I've been learning about; I was actually thinking of using an L082KZ to start with because it has a lot of Flash, built-in EEPROM, a simple M0+ core, and is easy to hand-solder. Cool idea using VGA as the output; was that hard, or could you just use the DACs normally? I was looking into parallel LCD interfaces for awhile - some F4 cores have a 24-bit RGB LCD peripheral - but they look complicated and I'm still puttering around with SPI OLED/TFT displays. Anyways, looks like a really cool project!

totallynotadev 8y ago

You might want to start with a CHIP-8 emulator. There are a lot of guides on the web, and it isn't a giant time commitment.

eropple 8y ago

I started with the MOS 6502, the core of the NES, Atari 2600, C64, and a bunch of others. I wrote it in order to build a really simple NES emulator, and I found the chip super approachable and easy to deal with--there just isn't much to it. Documentation is easy to find, too.

zellyn 8y ago
Agreed. If you have 6502 nostalgia, there are some really good tests, and you can basically just keep fixing test failures until they all go away, and you'll have a working chip emulation. https://github.com/Klaus2m5/6502_65C02_functional_tests https://github.com/Klaus2m5/6502_65C02_functional_tests is what I used.

pubby 8y ago

You could try writing a homebrew game for an old system. That's a pretty good way to learn things. Once you start on the emulator, the first thing you'll do is emulate the CPU, which can be done as a big switch statement inside of a loop. Knowing how to code each instruction is easy when you have an instruction listing handy. Here's a quick example of how I would write an emulator, with 2 opcodes already implemented (6502 assembly): https://pastebin.com/raw/PhCEqh35 https://pastebin.com/raw/PhCEqh35 And the instruction listing I used: http://obelisk.me.uk/6502/reference.html#AND http://obelisk.me.uk/6502/reference.html#AND

TimTheTinker 8y ago
Is `while(true)` preferable to `for(;;)` to get an infinite loop? The compiler probably optimizes the condition check out, so I doubt it really matters.
- souprock 8y ago
  The compiler won't care unless you "#define true 0". The "for(;;)" loop is easier and faster for the human to parse. It stands out in source code. With the "while(true)", you have to pay attention. It could be "while(tnie)" or "while(trua)". Whenever you see it, you have to read carefully.
- a_e_k 8y ago
  When I tested this in the distant past, I found that all the compilers I tried generated exactly the same assembly for both loops. I've seen it said that "The most optimizing compiler is the most normalizing compiler." [1] The infinite loop structure is pretty easy to normalize. The only real difference that I saw was that some compiler front ends would produce warnings that the condition in the while loop was always true, where they seemed to assume the empty for must be intentional. [1] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-705.pdf https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-705.pdf

corysama 8y ago

http://emulator101.com http://emulator101.com

rpeden 8y ago

This might seem like a roundabout way to start, but I'd recommend Code by Charles Petzold[0]. It starts out with just wires, switches, and relays, and as the book progresses he goes through the process of building up a simple CPU and RAM one step at a time. The book even walks you through coming up with opcodes and assembly language. Even if you already know this stuff, I found the book was helpful in developing an intuitive feel for how everything works and fits together. After reading it, you'd probably have a good mental model of how you'd want to approach writing an emulator. The Nand to Tetris courses and their accompanying textbook would probably be helpful here too[1][2]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Code-Language-Computer-Hardware-Software/dp/0735611319 https://www.amazon.com/Code-Language-Computer-Hardware-Softw... [1] https://www.coursera.org/learn/build-a-computer https://www.coursera.org/learn/build-a-computer [2] https://www.coursera.org/learn/nand2tetris2 https://www.coursera.org/learn/nand2tetris2

segmondy 8y ago

learn assembly, learn how it maps to opcodes. learn microelectronics and learn about cpu, registers, memory layout, cpu flags, etc. it becomes obvious. i wrote a 6800 emulator just from having this background knowledge and no reference in my college years. I did it because I didn't want to go to the labs early saturday morning to fight over the few 6800 hardware. I could write my code, run, debug, show up just as the lab is ending and hand in my work and go home.

aquova 8y ago

I've been looking into writing an emulator for a while now. There are some excellent references for specific systems, but one of the best sources I've found is here: http://www.codeslinger.co.uk/pages/basics.html http://www.codeslinger.co.uk/pages/basics.html In addition to having source code for several different emulators, they've written a ~150 page document about emulator development. It's easily the best resource I've seen on the subject.

OhDagny 8y ago

PDP-8 has a minimal number of opcodes.