7 ms·

QuitGenius (YC W18) raises $2M to help people quit smoking

44 points by nafizh 8y ago

CPLX 8y ago
These days it just seems crazy to trust some random SV company that's likely to be acquired by a huge company with questionable privacy ethics in a couple years with sensitive data that traditionally has been used to price discriminate in health insurance. I went to their website looking for some acknowledgement that they take this problem seriously and didn't see it. Even worse, the article says that they envision a future collaborating with employers to track employee programs. There's just no way I would be able to feel comfortable sharing this kind of information with a company that has this business model.
- adanto6840 8y ago
  The question is found on all health insurance applications as far as I'm aware -- "Have you used tobacco in the past 6 months". I'm under the impression that the question is not optional and that it's perfectly legal for insurers to price discriminate based on the answer to it (understandably and justifiably so IMO). I'm not sure, but I'd also assume that being dishonest when answering the question would technically put you at risk of having claims denied on that basis -- or, at the very least, having your rates raised retroactively since it presumably would indicate that you belong in a higher risk (and premium) pool... Is my layman's understanding wrong?
  - wolco 8y ago
    The fact that these companies can discriminate based protected human attributes like age or gender doesn't make sense in this day and age.
    - ciupicri 8y ago
      The fact that you assume that age and gender don't make a difference in this age of big data, doesn't make sense.
      - wolco 8y ago
        So does race do we include that? So do other factors like politics. Should we say if you are black you should pay more? A trump fan gets to pay less until he leaves office. We create groups based on anything to assign costs to other people. Everyone should be paying the same general rate with personal factors like accident history, or tickets.
        cortexio 8y ago
        race: yes, politics: yes, black: no, trump: no
griffinmb 8y ago
> Since launch Quit Genius has grown to 300,000 registered users, with over 20,000 people officially smoke-free in the app (which Quit Genius defines as having not smoked for over 28 days). I'd be interested to know how "smoke-free" time is established. Are users self-reporting that they have or haven't smoked with the app? And 28-days of not smoking is great, but it feels dishonest to call that "smoke-free". > Healthy employees save the company money and are more productive, and Quit Genius thinks it can not only help employees get healthier but give employers a way to track that progress. Dystopian.
- jbob2000 8y ago
  > Smoking costs 45,400 lives, $16.2B in a year, study finds [1] It is the largest single expense to employers and to the [Canadian] healthcare system. It is not dystopian to want to track smokers on their journey away from smoking - it's the only way we know if we're getting better at helping them quit. 28 days is a good measure of smoke free. By that time, you are through the nicotine withdrawal of about 72 hours, which I think is the biggest cause of relapse. After that, you need to resist the social and habitual pressures, and that is wholly up to the individual. Some people can go 20 years resisting these pressures, others collapse in a few days. So 3 weeks is a fair balance, I think. [1] http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/smoking-economic-cost-1.4357096 http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/smoking-economic-cost-1.4357...
  - ChristianBundy 8y ago
    > It is not dystopian to want to track smokers on their journey away from smoking - it's the only way we know if we're getting better at helping them quit. The dystopian bit is that they give your personal data to your employer. Was this really unclear to you? I'm confused at why else you would try to derail that point.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - ameister14 8y ago
anilshanbhag 8y ago
This reminds me of Weight Watchers ($WTW). The idea is crazy - people will pay for advice and some instructions I guess. $WTW is a $5B company now.
- hkmurakami 8y ago
  Aren't they paying for community / accountability? Oftentimes the value the user gets is a bit tangental to the concrete product.
- dyim 8y ago
  Advice, instructions, and a social group centered around the advice & instructions! Bill Ackman lost a lot of money underestimating the value of the latter.
Bucephalus355 8y ago
Stopping smoking is not all it’s cracked up to me. The show Silicon Valley hinted at this when Bachman tries to pitch an app to crowdsource geolocating smokers. First, yes smoking is bad, but all the health benefits of stopping have been completely absorbed by the unhealthy food that is sold / made available. In fact, the second largest smoking company, RJ Reynolds, used to be called RJR Nabisco. A ton of snack food executives got there start from the world of smoking. Second, there is a community level to this as well. It used to really bother me how many people at work smoked. I would walk past the designated smoking area and see 30 of them hanging out. Then I realized that there is something about smoking that brings people together (one of which is being forced to gather in a designated area), and perhaps in this era of individualism, loneliness, and anonymity that is a greater good. For more on RJR Nabisco, I suggest this great book from the 80’s: Barbarians at the Gate: The Fall of RJR Nabisco https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061655554 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061655554
- jabgrabdthrow 8y ago
  I bet in another context you’d happily point out which logical fallacies you just used for points 1 and 2. I used to think like you - while I was still addicted.
  - wolco 8y ago
    In fairness these safe snack foods being marketed as powerbars or meal replacement will be outlawed or restricted in the future for the same reason smoking is now.
robbrown451 8y ago
Simpler solution that actually works: buy one of these miracle devices (timer box) and just taper off your smoking. Make decisions that are in your best long term interest when you aren't in a weak "I must have a smoke now" mode. I admit I use it for a different kind of smoke (legal in California, yay), and for that, no need to completely quit, just keep usage reasonable without having to constantly fight with temptation. I don't own stock in the company, but I heartily recommend it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JGFQRN4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JGFQRN4/ref=oh_aui_deta...
- Jonovono 8y ago
  FWIW this is not the right way to think about quiting smoking. It might work for some people, although i'd bet only temporarily unless the root problem somehow goes away. This solution still has people believe they want to smoke and that it's something they enjoy (it will de-stress them, etc). These core beliefs have to be addressed IMO. Only until the user does NOT want to smoke and sees smoking as not only not being a benefit to them but also a harm to them, have they successfully quit smoking. Not sure how this app works, though.
  - robbrown451 8y ago
    Well I've quit smoking multiple times, the first time in 1990 and then after a few relapses that each lasted a few months, in the time since. I still want to smoke. I see no reason that will ever go away. It is enjoyable and relaxing -- during the time I am smoking and soon afterward. But it makes me unhealthy and generally feel like crap overall, so I choose not to anymore. But I do know that during my relapses, this box would have fixed the problem quick. I just have short term weakness, and if a whole pack is sitting there, I will smoke it pretty quickly. If I could easily taper it off (and this device allows that) it would have been easy. (I've actually done the equivalent, but it required someone to hold onto my cigarettes and dole them out...the box automates that)
angryasian 8y ago
I don't know how necessary this is with electronic cigs now. I know many people that have switched to e-cig, slowly reduced nicotine and have quit altogether.
shiftoutbox 8y ago
This is idiotic . Why not just call it the “uber for quitters “
joering2 8y ago
Frontage and already harvesting for my phone number? Good idea. With email I can at least mark you as spam or report you, much harder to unsubscribe or report my cellnumber abuser. Truly a "Genius" idea.
3pt14159 8y ago
I wish them, and everyone they're trying to help, all the best. I quit years ago and it was one of the best things I've done. There were only three mantras in my head when I quit "get through the first 48 hours" then "get through two weeks" then "don't fuck it up". It's hard to quit smoking, but only in the short term. It's much harder to live as a smoker over a lifespan. Remember that. I have more advice and micro tactics, but I feel like listing them all would only pollute the message above. Just get through the first 48 hours. You can do it.
alexbeloi 8y ago
This seems to me like this should be a non-profit. This company's revenue growth is misaligned with their customer's goals. Total success would be for the company to have 100% churn from successful rehab, the better they are at what they do the higher their churn rate should be. I guess this is a common issue in the health industry, an area that I haven't the slightest clue about.
- adrianmonk 8y ago
  Depends on the revenue model. They could give you lifetime access for a one-time payment, and then the more you need their services the less money they make. Particularly if it includes any kind of labor like support costs or reviewing your case.
- mark_edward 8y ago
  Mobile, can't link now, but the Obamacare expansion required covering rehab centers, and the industry exploded, and tons of bad actors are doing literally this. There are even cases of centers next to drug dens with staff acting as suppliers/runners I apologise for no link, but quick googling will find the stories.
choward 8y ago
Does it bother anyone else that this is a phone app only? Why can't it be a normal web app? One of the bad habits people have is being glued to their phones. And the permissions it requires seem pretty skeptical as well.

44 points by nafizh 8y ago

CPLX 8y ago

These days it just seems crazy to trust some random SV company that's likely to be acquired by a huge company with questionable privacy ethics in a couple years with sensitive data that traditionally has been used to price discriminate in health insurance. I went to their website looking for some acknowledgement that they take this problem seriously and didn't see it. Even worse, the article says that they envision a future collaborating with employers to track employee programs. There's just no way I would be able to feel comfortable sharing this kind of information with a company that has this business model.

adanto6840 8y ago
The question is found on all health insurance applications as far as I'm aware -- "Have you used tobacco in the past 6 months". I'm under the impression that the question is not optional and that it's perfectly legal for insurers to price discriminate based on the answer to it (understandably and justifiably so IMO). I'm not sure, but I'd also assume that being dishonest when answering the question would technically put you at risk of having claims denied on that basis -- or, at the very least, having your rates raised retroactively since it presumably would indicate that you belong in a higher risk (and premium) pool... Is my layman's understanding wrong?
- wolco 8y ago
  The fact that these companies can discriminate based protected human attributes like age or gender doesn't make sense in this day and age.
  - ciupicri 8y ago
    The fact that you assume that age and gender don't make a difference in this age of big data, doesn't make sense.
    - wolco 8y ago
      So does race do we include that? So do other factors like politics. Should we say if you are black you should pay more? A trump fan gets to pay less until he leaves office. We create groups based on anything to assign costs to other people. Everyone should be paying the same general rate with personal factors like accident history, or tickets.
      - cortexio 8y ago
        race: yes, politics: yes, black: no, trump: no

griffinmb 8y ago

> Since launch Quit Genius has grown to 300,000 registered users, with over 20,000 people officially smoke-free in the app (which Quit Genius defines as having not smoked for over 28 days). I'd be interested to know how "smoke-free" time is established. Are users self-reporting that they have or haven't smoked with the app? And 28-days of not smoking is great, but it feels dishonest to call that "smoke-free". > Healthy employees save the company money and are more productive, and Quit Genius thinks it can not only help employees get healthier but give employers a way to track that progress. Dystopian.

jbob2000 8y ago
> Smoking costs 45,400 lives, $16.2B in a year, study finds [1] It is the largest single expense to employers and to the [Canadian] healthcare system. It is not dystopian to want to track smokers on their journey away from smoking - it's the only way we know if we're getting better at helping them quit. 28 days is a good measure of smoke free. By that time, you are through the nicotine withdrawal of about 72 hours, which I think is the biggest cause of relapse. After that, you need to resist the social and habitual pressures, and that is wholly up to the individual. Some people can go 20 years resisting these pressures, others collapse in a few days. So 3 weeks is a fair balance, I think. [1] http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/smoking-economic-cost-1.4357096 http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/smoking-economic-cost-1.4357...
- ChristianBundy 8y ago
  > It is not dystopian to want to track smokers on their journey away from smoking - it's the only way we know if we're getting better at helping them quit. The dystopian bit is that they give your personal data to your employer. Was this really unclear to you? I'm confused at why else you would try to derail that point.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- ameister14 8y ago

anilshanbhag 8y ago

This reminds me of Weight Watchers ($WTW). The idea is crazy - people will pay for advice and some instructions I guess. $WTW is a $5B company now.

hkmurakami 8y ago
Aren't they paying for community / accountability? Oftentimes the value the user gets is a bit tangental to the concrete product.
dyim 8y ago
Advice, instructions, and a social group centered around the advice & instructions! Bill Ackman lost a lot of money underestimating the value of the latter.

Bucephalus355 8y ago

Stopping smoking is not all it’s cracked up to me. The show Silicon Valley hinted at this when Bachman tries to pitch an app to crowdsource geolocating smokers. First, yes smoking is bad, but all the health benefits of stopping have been completely absorbed by the unhealthy food that is sold / made available. In fact, the second largest smoking company, RJ Reynolds, used to be called RJR Nabisco. A ton of snack food executives got there start from the world of smoking. Second, there is a community level to this as well. It used to really bother me how many people at work smoked. I would walk past the designated smoking area and see 30 of them hanging out. Then I realized that there is something about smoking that brings people together (one of which is being forced to gather in a designated area), and perhaps in this era of individualism, loneliness, and anonymity that is a greater good. For more on RJR Nabisco, I suggest this great book from the 80’s: Barbarians at the Gate: The Fall of RJR Nabisco https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061655554 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061655554

jabgrabdthrow 8y ago
I bet in another context you’d happily point out which logical fallacies you just used for points 1 and 2. I used to think like you - while I was still addicted.
- wolco 8y ago
  In fairness these safe snack foods being marketed as powerbars or meal replacement will be outlawed or restricted in the future for the same reason smoking is now.

robbrown451 8y ago

Simpler solution that actually works: buy one of these miracle devices (timer box) and just taper off your smoking. Make decisions that are in your best long term interest when you aren't in a weak "I must have a smoke now" mode. I admit I use it for a different kind of smoke (legal in California, yay), and for that, no need to completely quit, just keep usage reasonable without having to constantly fight with temptation. I don't own stock in the company, but I heartily recommend it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JGFQRN4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JGFQRN4/ref=oh_aui_deta...

Jonovono 8y ago
FWIW this is not the right way to think about quiting smoking. It might work for some people, although i'd bet only temporarily unless the root problem somehow goes away. This solution still has people believe they want to smoke and that it's something they enjoy (it will de-stress them, etc). These core beliefs have to be addressed IMO. Only until the user does NOT want to smoke and sees smoking as not only not being a benefit to them but also a harm to them, have they successfully quit smoking. Not sure how this app works, though.
- robbrown451 8y ago
  Well I've quit smoking multiple times, the first time in 1990 and then after a few relapses that each lasted a few months, in the time since. I still want to smoke. I see no reason that will ever go away. It is enjoyable and relaxing -- during the time I am smoking and soon afterward. But it makes me unhealthy and generally feel like crap overall, so I choose not to anymore. But I do know that during my relapses, this box would have fixed the problem quick. I just have short term weakness, and if a whole pack is sitting there, I will smoke it pretty quickly. If I could easily taper it off (and this device allows that) it would have been easy. (I've actually done the equivalent, but it required someone to hold onto my cigarettes and dole them out...the box automates that)

angryasian 8y ago

I don't know how necessary this is with electronic cigs now. I know many people that have switched to e-cig, slowly reduced nicotine and have quit altogether.

shiftoutbox 8y ago

This is idiotic . Why not just call it the “uber for quitters “

joering2 8y ago

Frontage and already harvesting for my phone number? Good idea. With email I can at least mark you as spam or report you, much harder to unsubscribe or report my cellnumber abuser. Truly a "Genius" idea.

3pt14159 8y ago

I wish them, and everyone they're trying to help, all the best. I quit years ago and it was one of the best things I've done. There were only three mantras in my head when I quit "get through the first 48 hours" then "get through two weeks" then "don't fuck it up". It's hard to quit smoking, but only in the short term. It's much harder to live as a smoker over a lifespan. Remember that. I have more advice and micro tactics, but I feel like listing them all would only pollute the message above. Just get through the first 48 hours. You can do it.

alexbeloi 8y ago

This seems to me like this should be a non-profit. This company's revenue growth is misaligned with their customer's goals. Total success would be for the company to have 100% churn from successful rehab, the better they are at what they do the higher their churn rate should be. I guess this is a common issue in the health industry, an area that I haven't the slightest clue about.

adrianmonk 8y ago
Depends on the revenue model. They could give you lifetime access for a one-time payment, and then the more you need their services the less money they make. Particularly if it includes any kind of labor like support costs or reviewing your case.
mark_edward 8y ago
Mobile, can't link now, but the Obamacare expansion required covering rehab centers, and the industry exploded, and tons of bad actors are doing literally this. There are even cases of centers next to drug dens with staff acting as suppliers/runners I apologise for no link, but quick googling will find the stories.

choward 8y ago

Does it bother anyone else that this is a phone app only? Why can't it be a normal web app? One of the bad habits people have is being glued to their phones. And the permissions it requires seem pretty skeptical as well.