6 ms·

Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

73 points by ilamont 8y ago

bmcusick 8y ago
Maybe I’ll get the Model 3.11 for Workgroups.
rwbt 8y ago
A lot of annoyances, needless complicated door handles, buggy software. But this made me smile and the car enthusiast inside me is ecstatic. > "This car is a joy to drive on Angeles Crest Highway, and I don't say that lightly. Angeles Crest is a famously demanding road that winds up into the San Gabriel Mountains north of Los Angeles. You need brakes, power and a taut, balanced chassis to do it right. The Model 3 has it all. Body roll is minimal, the brakes don't complain, the steering is gratifyingly precise, and there are gobs of instant torque on tap. Plus, the regenerative braking function means you use the actual brake pedal less often. > "It's a new kind of fun to lift off the throttle ahead of a corner and realize you've already scrubbed enough speed without even touching the pedal. After my drive, a friend of mine asked me how the Model 3 compares to the current BMW 3 Series, and I told him I'd rather have the Tesla. He laughed. I wasn't kidding."
- tinbad 8y ago
  “you need brakes” According to the latest Consumer Reports test the model 3 failed pretty hard in that department: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-consumer-reports-dings-model-3-lackluster-stops/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-consume...
  - sunstone 8y ago
    That was one vehicle. The first test was fine. Subsequent tests were not. It's pretty clearly a flaw in the brakes of that particular vehicle. If CR wants to generalize from that fine, but it's not doing a service to its readers.
    - yumraj 8y ago
      I will disagree, I think they are making people aware of a potential problem, if indeed this is only with some cars, as most people won't know just by driving if their car's breaking is per the specs.
      - greglindahl 8y ago
        This thread is an excellent example of how people will over-interpret such a warning.
    - wlesieutre 8y ago
      It says they borrowed a second car from a private owner to double check and had the same results.
    - morogop 8y ago
      CR obtained additional vehicles. But I get it. You're a volunteer in Elon's disinformation army. And you're such a dumb cuck that you don't even get paid for bullshitting the public.
    - hooloovoo_zoo 8y ago
      They tested on 2 model 3s with "almost identical" results. https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/ https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-re...
    - justin66 8y ago
      > That was one vehicle. From the Consumer Reports article[1]: Because we saw some inconsistency in the braking performance, we got a second Model 3 (a privately owned vehicle that was loaned to CR) to verify our results. CR has tested second samples in previous situations to double-check our findings. ... CR’s experience with the Model 3’s braking is not unique. Car and Driver, in its published test of a Model 3, said it noticed “a bizarre amount of variation” in its test, including one stop from 70 mph that took “an interminable 196 feet.” “I’ve been testing cars for 11 years,” Car and Driver Testing Director K.C. Colwell said in an interview with CR, “and in 11 years, no car has stood out with inconsistent braking like this. Some trucks have. . . . It was just weird.” [1]https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/ https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-re...
- userbinator 8y ago
  It's a new kind of fun to lift off the throttle ahead of a corner and realize you've already scrubbed enough speed without even touching the pedal. That sounds similar to the feeling of driving a bus or other heavy vehicle with a retarder and/or Jake brake.
  - gomox 8y ago
    Sounds like driving a manual, actually. You just use the brakes a lot less.
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      Except with a manual, you're reducing the lifetime of your clutch, while with regenerative brakes, you're saving energy. I find that one-pedal driving makes me much more mellow: I play a game where I try to never have to use the actual brakes. Disclaimer: my first clutch lasted 120,000 miles.
      - mmt 8y ago
        > Except with a manual, you're reducing the lifetime of your clutch Huh? How is engine braking (or, for that matter anything) on a fully-engaged dry clutch going to reduce its lifetime?
        greglindahl 8y ago
        Well, that's what people tell me, and a quick google shows that the Internets have a huge debate over the issue. So I'll just say that I'm not an expert, but I still love one-pedal driving. Edit: from the huge number of downvotes my previous comment is getting, apparently many HN users think they know the answer!
        mmt 8y ago
        The huge number of downvotes should probably indicate to you that what you stated as a matter of fact is incorrect[1]. It's not necessarily that HNers think they know, even though I'm sure we do! :), it's that it's pretty clear that you didn't know but made a statement as if you did know, with no substantiation. Sadly, as it turns out here, it was based on "some guy somewhere said", which is a much-maligned standard of knowledge on HN. BTW, I suspect the downvotes for this comment are for the combination of basically admitting that you're relying on hearsay and that, attempting to research the matter further, you were shocked (shocked!) that there were people arguing on the Internet and that was the end of the matter for you. [1] or a matter of opinion, but this is an engineering topic, which, on HN, is generally pretty comfortably treated as fact.
- dingaling 8y ago
  > Body roll is minimal There are a couple of problems with the obsession for flat cornering. One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels. More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go. As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    The 3 is so bottom-heavy that it could be that it naturally corners flat.
  - yathern 8y ago
    I'm not sure I understand how having a flat body roll is worse than normal, in terms of passenger tiltiness. Ideally, the car would bank, rolling opposite. Then the force of the turn would push you into your seat, rather than out of it. But I'm probably misunderstanding something.
  - rwbt 8y ago
    > More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go. This honestly depends on the tires. A lot of performance tires lose grip very gradually. Don't know what tires the Model 3 comes with, but with a good set it shouldn't be an issue. > As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners. I daily drive an MX-5 and the body roll drives me nuts. If you ever drive a modded Miata or an S2000/BRZ or a Porsche Cayman it'll be very apparent how their lack of body roll gives superior driving dynamics while still being very compliant. Not saying Miata is a boat, but it's overly wallow-y for a car of that size.
  - dpark 8y ago
    > One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels. Body roll is going the wrong way to make it more comfortable. The roll is in the same direction that the passengers are being pulled, which makes the passenger impact worse as gravity adds to the pull as the car tilts. Contrast with a banked curve, which is essentially reverse roll, and is more comfortable because much of the force is directed "downward" into the seat.
MBCook 8y ago
I can’t wait to see the apologists on this one. The Model 3 seems more like an alpha/prototype than a real car for consumers. As soon as I saw the interior I knew it wasn’t going to go well, seems it’s worse than I thought. Add in the software issues and other bugs they seem to be in countering in this is a pathetic experience for a $60,000 car + years of waiting.
- jjeaff 8y ago
  I had to look that price up, because I could have sworn the big talking points was the $35k price tag. And sure enough, average purchase estimates are swelling past $50k average and some paying closer to $60k.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    Tesla should absolutely be condemned for offering options, like every other carmaker.
    - mmt 8y ago
      Your sarcasm doesn't add much to the conversation. Here's my actual criticism: Is there actually a $35k "option" (base model) yet? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". I'm not going so far as a condemnation, but I'd like to see reviews of that model before passing judgment. Also, is it common for "every other carmaker" to have that huge a difference in price within the same model, barring actual structural differences (coupe/sedan/wagon)? $56k is 160% of the $35k price.
      - greglindahl 8y ago
        The $35k Model 3 will be released when they need to ship them -- until then, they're going to ship higher-priced higher-margin cars. (Even higher-priced dual motor and performance models just got released because production has finally gotten to a reasonable level and they're willing to introduce kinks in the production line.) The same thing was done with Model S and Model X. I have air suspension because elsewise I would have had to wait longer than the 9 months I'd already waited in 2012-2013. The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is battery size, which affects weight and the max performance.
magoon 8y ago
Software updates can possibly fix most of the complaints? Any non-software problems further the theory that the quality of any car lies in the assembly line itself; Modern auto manufacturers’ core product is actually their factory.
jtchang 8y ago
Man I bet their JIRA project issue bug counters are in the tens of thousands at this point.
- trhway 8y ago
  just instead of points they burn wads of cash
dave1619 8y ago
I've owned a Model 3 for over 5 months now with almost 6k miles on it. All I can attest to is my personal experience and the experience of some friends who also own a Model 3. Performance and handling on this car is truly amazing. Autopilot (at least in my personal experience) has been excellent. That said I understand the limitations of Autopilot and keep cautious oversight when it's on. I've head a few minor issues with the car but they are very minor compares to how great the car has been. For example, my trunk is difficult to close. One of the panel pieces was bulging out but service ranger fixed that. And sometimes the car doesn't recognize my phone to start the car, so I need to start it from the app or use the key card. Hopefully Tesla will be able to iron out these issues, and other issues that early owners have had. But I went into it knowing that I'm an early owner and will face some issues on first gen, first year car. All first gen, first year cars have their share of problems. But overall, I suggest those who seriously want to know what kind of car the Model 3 is, is to test drive the car. And to ask Model 3 owners about the car. The vast, vast majority of Model 3 owners I've talked with tell me the car is truly amazing.
- abduhl 8y ago
  I am trying to think of any other first generation first year car that had a problem so basic as being on the order of "car doesn't recognize the key/keyfob and so won't start" and I can't think of one.
  - linsomniac 8y ago
    As far as the radio volume issue they were having: My 1997 Audi A4 had a similar problem. Unlike the Tesla, I didn't have the option of a firmware update to fix it. :-)
  - njovin 8y ago
    OP did say that the key card worked but the phone recognition didn’t. I’ve owned few cars with any sort of phone integrations beyond basic Bluetooth and they almost never work. Heck I own a Toyota truck they’ve been making for decades with a digital interface that’s probably five years mature and you still have to install one of their (overwhelmingly one-star rated) apps to do anything interesting with it. even if the app does work you get integration with a B-grade navigation app or iHeartRadio. It’s not really a fair comparison.
brisance 8y ago
Does the car not come with an anti-glare coating on the display? Seems like it could be a safety issue when driving with the sun at the back.
flyGuyOnTheSly 8y ago
>The passenger vanity mirror fell off completely. Installed and held on only by double-sided tape. That is the most worrying report of all... taping together parts of a $56,000 automobile? Glass parts, no less? Sounds like desperation is taking hold at Tesla imho...
- userbinator 8y ago
  What did you expect? Tape is not uncommon. Pretty much all mirrors are held on with double-sided tape, or some other soft adhesive.
  - flyGuyOnTheSly 8y ago
    >What did you expect? Some actual engineering of a snap together framework at the very least? (Which would be even cheaper than just taping it together in the long run...) Some nuts and bolts, perhaps? I have never heard of a mirror "falling off" of any consumer car unless it was in some kind of accident... especially not after a few months of ownership... of a $56,000 car...
    - justin66 8y ago
      It's a vanity mirror. It shouldn't ever fall off or come loose, but the correct double-sided adhesive should be perfectly adequate.
    - userbinator 8y ago
      Some nuts and bolts, perhaps? It's a piece of glass. Adding such fastening would increase the cost of assembly significantly. Double-sided tape is an industry standard. Cars costing more and less than $56k use it. It just appears that it wasn't very good tape in this case. Good double-sided tape can stick very, very well.
      - sxcurry 8y ago
        I love it! This is HN now - backing up the use of double sided tape in a Tesla. Glad I bought an Audi...,
aportnoy 8y ago
Let's hope the hardware is not as buggy as the software.
sunstone 8y ago
Ok so, bottom line, some software bugs, some cosmetic issues, some "we're not used to doing it like that" situations and a fabulous piece of driving engineering. Edmunds don't seem to have their automotive priorities in the right order here.
- vntok 8y ago
  Don't forget the Autocrash feature.
erik_landerholm 8y ago
The braking, if correct is terrible. It’s not the 80s anymore. https://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports-says-it-found-big-flaws-with-the-tesla-1826198783 https://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports-says-it-found-big-flaw...
- stephengillie 8y ago
  >In CR’s testing, Model 3's braking distance from 60 mph was 152 feet, a distance that the outlet claimed is “far worse than any contemporary car [it has] tested” and was nearly seven feet longer than the braking distance than that of a Ford F-150. Another article[0] in this thread has more: In a recent test of various 2018 F-150s, Motor Trend recorded a 129-foot stopping distance for the 3.3-liter XL Supercab model, while an upscale Lariat trim made the stop in 10 fewer feet. For comparison, a Chrysler 300S tested by the same publication made the stop in 109 feet. For comparison, a 2016 Camry Hybrid: >Stopping distance from 60 mph is around 125 feet, which is average for the midsize hybrid segment...[1] Car distance (feet) Model 3 152 F-150 129 Camry Hybrid 125 F-150 Lariat 119 Chrysler 300S 109 [0]http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-consumer-reports-dings-model-3-lackluster-stops/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-consume... [1]https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2016-Toyota-Camry-Overview-c25220 https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2016-Toyota-Camry-Overview-c25...
xt00 8y ago
Sounds like the touchscreen is getting noise coupled into it from the ground of the car being different from the touchscreen's power supply. Assuming that they have something like 12V avail to power that unit, then a buck that gives you 3.3V, so probably somewhere in that chain there is a bunch of noise coupling in.. common mode noise.. gotta squash that..
Animats 8y ago
"Autopilot was launched back in 2014. At what point does it stop being beta?" - Edmunds
ryandetzel 8y ago
I couldn't find it in the details but I would assume because that this is an early production car which had known issues and if you believe the more recent reports the car is in much much better condition now only after a couple months of production. Growing pains, if these were issues on a model 1-2 years old there would be issues but they've only been sending cars down the line for <5 months in any real numbers. I can't wait to get mine, sure there might be issues but I'm pretty confident the amazing features will shadow any minor tape issues that can easily be rectified.
erik_landerholm 8y ago
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/22/elon-musk-admits-tesla-model-3-has-a-braking-issue-promises-fix/ https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/22/elon-musk-admits-tesla-m... Hopefully, this sorts it.
TeeWEE 8y ago
I don't care about the software bugs, software will only get better over time. For me the most important is build quality. And i think Tesla is doing its best to have a high build quality. Maybe for the first few cars rolling of the assembly line there might be problems. I still hope for the best.

73 points by ilamont 8y ago

Maybe I’ll get the Model 3.11 for Workgroups.

rwbt 8y ago

A lot of annoyances, needless complicated door handles, buggy software. But this made me smile and the car enthusiast inside me is ecstatic. > "This car is a joy to drive on Angeles Crest Highway, and I don't say that lightly. Angeles Crest is a famously demanding road that winds up into the San Gabriel Mountains north of Los Angeles. You need brakes, power and a taut, balanced chassis to do it right. The Model 3 has it all. Body roll is minimal, the brakes don't complain, the steering is gratifyingly precise, and there are gobs of instant torque on tap. Plus, the regenerative braking function means you use the actual brake pedal less often. > "It's a new kind of fun to lift off the throttle ahead of a corner and realize you've already scrubbed enough speed without even touching the pedal. After my drive, a friend of mine asked me how the Model 3 compares to the current BMW 3 Series, and I told him I'd rather have the Tesla. He laughed. I wasn't kidding."

tinbad 8y ago
“you need brakes” According to the latest Consumer Reports test the model 3 failed pretty hard in that department: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-consumer-reports-dings-model-3-lackluster-stops/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-consume...
- sunstone 8y ago
  That was one vehicle. The first test was fine. Subsequent tests were not. It's pretty clearly a flaw in the brakes of that particular vehicle. If CR wants to generalize from that fine, but it's not doing a service to its readers.
  - yumraj 8y ago
    I will disagree, I think they are making people aware of a potential problem, if indeed this is only with some cars, as most people won't know just by driving if their car's breaking is per the specs.
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      This thread is an excellent example of how people will over-interpret such a warning.
  - wlesieutre 8y ago
    It says they borrowed a second car from a private owner to double check and had the same results.
  - morogop 8y ago
    CR obtained additional vehicles. But I get it. You're a volunteer in Elon's disinformation army. And you're such a dumb cuck that you don't even get paid for bullshitting the public.
  - hooloovoo_zoo 8y ago
    They tested on 2 model 3s with "almost identical" results. https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/ https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-re...
  - justin66 8y ago
    > That was one vehicle. From the Consumer Reports article[1]: Because we saw some inconsistency in the braking performance, we got a second Model 3 (a privately owned vehicle that was loaned to CR) to verify our results. CR has tested second samples in previous situations to double-check our findings. ... CR’s experience with the Model 3’s braking is not unique. Car and Driver, in its published test of a Model 3, said it noticed “a bizarre amount of variation” in its test, including one stop from 70 mph that took “an interminable 196 feet.” “I’ve been testing cars for 11 years,” Car and Driver Testing Director K.C. Colwell said in an interview with CR, “and in 11 years, no car has stood out with inconsistent braking like this. Some trucks have. . . . It was just weird.” [1]https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/ https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-re...
userbinator 8y ago
It's a new kind of fun to lift off the throttle ahead of a corner and realize you've already scrubbed enough speed without even touching the pedal. That sounds similar to the feeling of driving a bus or other heavy vehicle with a retarder and/or Jake brake.
- gomox 8y ago
  Sounds like driving a manual, actually. You just use the brakes a lot less.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    Except with a manual, you're reducing the lifetime of your clutch, while with regenerative brakes, you're saving energy. I find that one-pedal driving makes me much more mellow: I play a game where I try to never have to use the actual brakes. Disclaimer: my first clutch lasted 120,000 miles.
    - mmt 8y ago
      > Except with a manual, you're reducing the lifetime of your clutch Huh? How is engine braking (or, for that matter anything) on a fully-engaged dry clutch going to reduce its lifetime?
      - greglindahl 8y ago
        Well, that's what people tell me, and a quick google shows that the Internets have a huge debate over the issue. So I'll just say that I'm not an expert, but I still love one-pedal driving. Edit: from the huge number of downvotes my previous comment is getting, apparently many HN users think they know the answer!
        mmt 8y ago
        The huge number of downvotes should probably indicate to you that what you stated as a matter of fact is incorrect[1]. It's not necessarily that HNers think they know, even though I'm sure we do! :), it's that it's pretty clear that you didn't know but made a statement as if you did know, with no substantiation. Sadly, as it turns out here, it was based on "some guy somewhere said", which is a much-maligned standard of knowledge on HN. BTW, I suspect the downvotes for this comment are for the combination of basically admitting that you're relying on hearsay and that, attempting to research the matter further, you were shocked (shocked!) that there were people arguing on the Internet and that was the end of the matter for you. [1] or a matter of opinion, but this is an engineering topic, which, on HN, is generally pretty comfortably treated as fact.
dingaling 8y ago
> Body roll is minimal There are a couple of problems with the obsession for flat cornering. One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels. More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go. As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  The 3 is so bottom-heavy that it could be that it naturally corners flat.
- yathern 8y ago
  I'm not sure I understand how having a flat body roll is worse than normal, in terms of passenger tiltiness. Ideally, the car would bank, rolling opposite. Then the force of the turn would push you into your seat, rather than out of it. But I'm probably misunderstanding something.
- rwbt 8y ago
  > More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go. This honestly depends on the tires. A lot of performance tires lose grip very gradually. Don't know what tires the Model 3 comes with, but with a good set it shouldn't be an issue. > As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners. I daily drive an MX-5 and the body roll drives me nuts. If you ever drive a modded Miata or an S2000/BRZ or a Porsche Cayman it'll be very apparent how their lack of body roll gives superior driving dynamics while still being very compliant. Not saying Miata is a boat, but it's overly wallow-y for a car of that size.
- dpark 8y ago
  > One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels. Body roll is going the wrong way to make it more comfortable. The roll is in the same direction that the passengers are being pulled, which makes the passenger impact worse as gravity adds to the pull as the car tilts. Contrast with a banked curve, which is essentially reverse roll, and is more comfortable because much of the force is directed "downward" into the seat.

MBCook 8y ago

I can’t wait to see the apologists on this one. The Model 3 seems more like an alpha/prototype than a real car for consumers. As soon as I saw the interior I knew it wasn’t going to go well, seems it’s worse than I thought. Add in the software issues and other bugs they seem to be in countering in this is a pathetic experience for a $60,000 car + years of waiting.

jjeaff 8y ago
I had to look that price up, because I could have sworn the big talking points was the $35k price tag. And sure enough, average purchase estimates are swelling past $50k average and some paying closer to $60k.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Tesla should absolutely be condemned for offering options, like every other carmaker.
  - mmt 8y ago
    Your sarcasm doesn't add much to the conversation. Here's my actual criticism: Is there actually a $35k "option" (base model) yet? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". I'm not going so far as a condemnation, but I'd like to see reviews of that model before passing judgment. Also, is it common for "every other carmaker" to have that huge a difference in price within the same model, barring actual structural differences (coupe/sedan/wagon)? $56k is 160% of the $35k price.
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      The $35k Model 3 will be released when they need to ship them -- until then, they're going to ship higher-priced higher-margin cars. (Even higher-priced dual motor and performance models just got released because production has finally gotten to a reasonable level and they're willing to introduce kinks in the production line.) The same thing was done with Model S and Model X. I have air suspension because elsewise I would have had to wait longer than the 9 months I'd already waited in 2012-2013. The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is battery size, which affects weight and the max performance.

magoon 8y ago

Software updates can possibly fix most of the complaints? Any non-software problems further the theory that the quality of any car lies in the assembly line itself; Modern auto manufacturers’ core product is actually their factory.

jtchang 8y ago

Man I bet their JIRA project issue bug counters are in the tens of thousands at this point.

trhway 8y ago
just instead of points they burn wads of cash

dave1619 8y ago

I've owned a Model 3 for over 5 months now with almost 6k miles on it. All I can attest to is my personal experience and the experience of some friends who also own a Model 3. Performance and handling on this car is truly amazing. Autopilot (at least in my personal experience) has been excellent. That said I understand the limitations of Autopilot and keep cautious oversight when it's on. I've head a few minor issues with the car but they are very minor compares to how great the car has been. For example, my trunk is difficult to close. One of the panel pieces was bulging out but service ranger fixed that. And sometimes the car doesn't recognize my phone to start the car, so I need to start it from the app or use the key card. Hopefully Tesla will be able to iron out these issues, and other issues that early owners have had. But I went into it knowing that I'm an early owner and will face some issues on first gen, first year car. All first gen, first year cars have their share of problems. But overall, I suggest those who seriously want to know what kind of car the Model 3 is, is to test drive the car. And to ask Model 3 owners about the car. The vast, vast majority of Model 3 owners I've talked with tell me the car is truly amazing.

abduhl 8y ago
I am trying to think of any other first generation first year car that had a problem so basic as being on the order of "car doesn't recognize the key/keyfob and so won't start" and I can't think of one.
- linsomniac 8y ago
  As far as the radio volume issue they were having: My 1997 Audi A4 had a similar problem. Unlike the Tesla, I didn't have the option of a firmware update to fix it. :-)
- njovin 8y ago
  OP did say that the key card worked but the phone recognition didn’t. I’ve owned few cars with any sort of phone integrations beyond basic Bluetooth and they almost never work. Heck I own a Toyota truck they’ve been making for decades with a digital interface that’s probably five years mature and you still have to install one of their (overwhelmingly one-star rated) apps to do anything interesting with it. even if the app does work you get integration with a B-grade navigation app or iHeartRadio. It’s not really a fair comparison.

brisance 8y ago

Does the car not come with an anti-glare coating on the display? Seems like it could be a safety issue when driving with the sun at the back.

flyGuyOnTheSly 8y ago

>The passenger vanity mirror fell off completely. Installed and held on only by double-sided tape. That is the most worrying report of all... taping together parts of a $56,000 automobile? Glass parts, no less? Sounds like desperation is taking hold at Tesla imho...

userbinator 8y ago
What did you expect? Tape is not uncommon. Pretty much all mirrors are held on with double-sided tape, or some other soft adhesive.
- flyGuyOnTheSly 8y ago
  >What did you expect? Some actual engineering of a snap together framework at the very least? (Which would be even cheaper than just taping it together in the long run...) Some nuts and bolts, perhaps? I have never heard of a mirror "falling off" of any consumer car unless it was in some kind of accident... especially not after a few months of ownership... of a $56,000 car...
  - justin66 8y ago
    It's a vanity mirror. It shouldn't ever fall off or come loose, but the correct double-sided adhesive should be perfectly adequate.
  - userbinator 8y ago
    Some nuts and bolts, perhaps? It's a piece of glass. Adding such fastening would increase the cost of assembly significantly. Double-sided tape is an industry standard. Cars costing more and less than $56k use it. It just appears that it wasn't very good tape in this case. Good double-sided tape can stick very, very well.
    - sxcurry 8y ago
      I love it! This is HN now - backing up the use of double sided tape in a Tesla. Glad I bought an Audi...,

aportnoy 8y ago

Let's hope the hardware is not as buggy as the software.

sunstone 8y ago

Ok so, bottom line, some software bugs, some cosmetic issues, some "we're not used to doing it like that" situations and a fabulous piece of driving engineering. Edmunds don't seem to have their automotive priorities in the right order here.

vntok 8y ago
Don't forget the Autocrash feature.

erik_landerholm 8y ago

The braking, if correct is terrible. It’s not the 80s anymore. https://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports-says-it-found-big-flaws-with-the-tesla-1826198783 https://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports-says-it-found-big-flaw...

stephengillie 8y ago
>In CR’s testing, Model 3's braking distance from 60 mph was 152 feet, a distance that the outlet claimed is “far worse than any contemporary car [it has] tested” and was nearly seven feet longer than the braking distance than that of a Ford F-150. Another article[0] in this thread has more: In a recent test of various 2018 F-150s, Motor Trend recorded a 129-foot stopping distance for the 3.3-liter XL Supercab model, while an upscale Lariat trim made the stop in 10 fewer feet. For comparison, a Chrysler 300S tested by the same publication made the stop in 109 feet. For comparison, a 2016 Camry Hybrid: >Stopping distance from 60 mph is around 125 feet, which is average for the midsize hybrid segment...[1] Car distance (feet) Model 3 152 F-150 129 Camry Hybrid 125 F-150 Lariat 119 Chrysler 300S 109 [0]http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-consumer-reports-dings-model-3-lackluster-stops/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-consume... [1]https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2016-Toyota-Camry-Overview-c25220 https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2016-Toyota-Camry-Overview-c25...

xt00 8y ago

Sounds like the touchscreen is getting noise coupled into it from the ground of the car being different from the touchscreen's power supply. Assuming that they have something like 12V avail to power that unit, then a buck that gives you 3.3V, so probably somewhere in that chain there is a bunch of noise coupling in.. common mode noise.. gotta squash that..

Animats 8y ago

"Autopilot was launched back in 2014. At what point does it stop being beta?" - Edmunds

ryandetzel 8y ago

I couldn't find it in the details but I would assume because that this is an early production car which had known issues and if you believe the more recent reports the car is in much much better condition now only after a couple months of production. Growing pains, if these were issues on a model 1-2 years old there would be issues but they've only been sending cars down the line for <5 months in any real numbers. I can't wait to get mine, sure there might be issues but I'm pretty confident the amazing features will shadow any minor tape issues that can easily be rectified.

erik_landerholm 8y ago

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/22/elon-musk-admits-tesla-model-3-has-a-braking-issue-promises-fix/ https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/22/elon-musk-admits-tesla-m... Hopefully, this sorts it.

TeeWEE 8y ago

I don't care about the software bugs, software will only get better over time. For me the most important is build quality. And i think Tesla is doing its best to have a high build quality. Maybe for the first few cars rolling of the assembly line there might be problems. I still hope for the best.