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I think the CIA lost its way during the Bush II administration. (More precisely, I think they were led astray by the Bush administration and then used as a scap

I think the CIA lost its way during the Bush II administration. (More precisely, I think they were led astray by the Bush administration and then used as a scapegoat.) But Snowden's leaks concerned NSA and related agencies work on signals intelligence. He wasn't fighting against torture, so please don't give him credit for it.

rurban 8y ago
Then you never read about Nixon and Bush I. This was the most criminal era.
- auntienomen 8y ago
  Your comment is a non-sequitur. Are you trying to communicate something? Or just trying to change topics?
  - Vinnl 8y ago
    I think cowmoo728's comment were a reply to your remark about the TLA's (i.e. including the CIA), and rurban's comments a reply to your comment about when the CIA lost its way.
  - majos 8y ago
    The comment makes sense to me. It's saying that the CIA didn't "los[e] its way during the Bush II administration", since it did similar things in the Bush I and Nixon administrations (whether or not that's true I don't know).
    - auntienomen 8y ago
      But the Bush I administration isn't notable for CIA misbehavior. The criminal period which I think the parent comment refers to occurred in the 60s and 70s, under Johnson & Nixon. Bush Sr was director of the CIA, but under Ford, not Nixon. He was part of the post Church Committee era. Throwing him in to the mix is what makes rurban's comment read as nonsensical.
      - boomboomsubban 8y ago
        So you missed the Intecept's piece from the day before this one, going into detail about how the man suspected of "spying" on Trump definitely spied on Carter for Bush?
      - rurban 8y ago
        Are you missing the Iran-Contra affair? The whole drug operations exposed by Gary Webb? This was all Bush Sr. Yes, this was post Church, under Bush Sr (as head of CIA, then vice, then pres) it became the worst. Under Obama the formerly illegal assassinations were made legal, Habeas Corpus was abandoned, but it didn't reach the volume of the pre-Church and Bush Sr years. The military drone program took over those numbers.
- caycep 8y ago
  In terms of criminality, my feeling is that the CIA was always a bit of a loose cannon. In the WWII era with "Wild Bill" Donovan, there were all sorts of hijinks that wouldn't fly today, ranging from assassinations to downright silly operations leaving agents exposed to unnecessary danger. In the Eisenhower era, I don't think there was anything as bad as torture, but Allen Dulles and his cronies authorized assassinations behind Eisenhower's back (the criticism is that Eisenhower did not institute strong enough oversight of CIA back then). Similar to the Military Industrial Complex, the intelligence community has morphed into a bureaucracy all its own, with a tendency to hide its own agenda from oversight.
  - eeZah7Ux 8y ago
    > hijinks that wouldn't fly today, ranging from assassinations I'm afraid assassination is literally flying today...

rurban 8y ago

Then you never read about Nixon and Bush I. This was the most criminal era.

auntienomen 8y ago
Your comment is a non-sequitur. Are you trying to communicate something? Or just trying to change topics?
- Vinnl 8y ago
  I think cowmoo728's comment were a reply to your remark about the TLA's (i.e. including the CIA), and rurban's comments a reply to your comment about when the CIA lost its way.
- majos 8y ago
  The comment makes sense to me. It's saying that the CIA didn't "los[e] its way during the Bush II administration", since it did similar things in the Bush I and Nixon administrations (whether or not that's true I don't know).
  - auntienomen 8y ago
    But the Bush I administration isn't notable for CIA misbehavior. The criminal period which I think the parent comment refers to occurred in the 60s and 70s, under Johnson & Nixon. Bush Sr was director of the CIA, but under Ford, not Nixon. He was part of the post Church Committee era. Throwing him in to the mix is what makes rurban's comment read as nonsensical.
    - boomboomsubban 8y ago
      So you missed the Intecept's piece from the day before this one, going into detail about how the man suspected of "spying" on Trump definitely spied on Carter for Bush?
    - rurban 8y ago
      Are you missing the Iran-Contra affair? The whole drug operations exposed by Gary Webb? This was all Bush Sr. Yes, this was post Church, under Bush Sr (as head of CIA, then vice, then pres) it became the worst. Under Obama the formerly illegal assassinations were made legal, Habeas Corpus was abandoned, but it didn't reach the volume of the pre-Church and Bush Sr years. The military drone program took over those numbers.
caycep 8y ago
In terms of criminality, my feeling is that the CIA was always a bit of a loose cannon. In the WWII era with "Wild Bill" Donovan, there were all sorts of hijinks that wouldn't fly today, ranging from assassinations to downright silly operations leaving agents exposed to unnecessary danger. In the Eisenhower era, I don't think there was anything as bad as torture, but Allen Dulles and his cronies authorized assassinations behind Eisenhower's back (the criticism is that Eisenhower did not institute strong enough oversight of CIA back then). Similar to the Military Industrial Complex, the intelligence community has morphed into a bureaucracy all its own, with a tendency to hide its own agenda from oversight.
- eeZah7Ux 8y ago
  > hijinks that wouldn't fly today, ranging from assassinations I'm afraid assassination is literally flying today...