4 ms·

In a fair world, there would be an option in Google for "Show me reviews from X" where users are forced to select X (i.e. no defaults provided). The problem is

In a fair world, there would be an option in Google for "Show me reviews from X" where users are forced to select X (i.e. no defaults provided). The problem is that Yelp is the one who wants to be monopoly and they would never agreed to this. They don't want Google Maps to show any reviews at all. Instead they insist that people must take an additional step to go to Yelp's own website for reviews. This is unworkable. Reviews and ratings decide the ranking in maps query. I as a customer should have an integrated experience in maps instead of having thrown 10 random results for each of which I have to go to Yelp website to figure things out. Lot of search results in maps are driven from review text, for example, names of dishes. The ratings and reviews are integral part of a map product. Yelp doesn't care about how much users would suffer as long as they can get their eyeballs. Google shouldn't be forced to work with these kind of people. Yes, I do strongly believe that any website that harvests volunteers to gather the publicly accessible data must give away that data for free. I can never agree to the business model that a company has sole propitiatory right to that data by duppig millions of people in to labor who didn't cared to read legal T&C stating that all this is going to be behind the wall so CEO can get his billion dollar exit to buy private island while stagnating the company.

hueving 8y ago
>The ratings and reviews are integral part of a map product. No they are not. I and many others I know just use the "map product" for directions to get to places. Google maps was useful long before the integration of the cesspool of crowd-sourced reviews. You might want a map of top 10 whatever voted by the democratic people of Gmaps/Yelp busy-bodies but there is no reason that needs to be in the core. Google maps has an API that lets you plot things on it. Yelp can plot things on it. Leave maps to be maps and keep the clutter of opinion diarrhea out of there.
- jryle70 8y ago
  If you search for places to eat at 10pm, wouldn't you also want to know if they are still open, what kind of food they offer, how people rate them? Google Maps is such a dominant service that a competing company like Yelp will be at a huge disadvantage. No wonder Yelp complains. But you can't say what Google does doesn't make sense.
  - jasonlotito 8y ago
    > If you search for places to eat at 10pm... All the times I've searched for places to eat at 10pm or later, no. I just wanted to find the place.
  - mmt 8y ago
    >wouldn't you also want to know if they are still open, Yes, but my experience is that, especially for the case of later (or earlier) than peak business hours for an area, I can't trust a second- or third-hand source like a mapping service for this kind of information. Even if it weren't for the GIGO problem, I still have the UI problem in that there's only an "open now" boolean filter, which is horrible if I'm searching at 9:48 for places open after 10. >what kind of food they offer, Sometimes, but there's often at least a hint in the name of the restaurant. Often, though, the later it is, the less importance the kind of food holds. >how people rate them? Honestly, not even a little, since, by this point, it's a "beggars can't be choosers" situation. Plus, even if I had the inclination to dig into the reviews, I wouldn't care what people thought of, for example, the service during the dinner rush.
  - hueving 8y ago
    You don't need user ratings to tell if they are open or what type of restaurant it is. That's basic business information that Google has allowed businesses to provide forever.
gregknicholson 8y ago
> In a fair world, there would be an option in Google… In a fair world, if you don't like the results Google's service provides, you'll choose a better service provider. Google's search service has always used a business model like “give us your query; we'll apply our proprietary algorithm and return results”. If you don't like those results, you don't like Google's service. You can ask them to change their service so that you like it better; but they have never agreed to do so for you, and they're under no obligation. Google should be able to do what they like; users can choose not to use Google's services.
- telltruth 8y ago
  One can argue that Microsoft may put whatever they want as default on their OS and customers always have choice to vote with their wallet. In real world, most of the population is too naive to change default or learn something new just because of technology ideology differences. Furthermore, if I want to switch over to something else, I would lose other dozens of apps that are not available there. So customer is effectively tied up with dominant product and accept it as benevolent dictator. The apparent choice in theory is not really a choice in reality.
  - gregknicholson 8y ago
    Yes, this is precisely the problem. Capitalism does not produce good quality products and services without genuine competition.
  - dougfelt 8y ago
    And the point of this reference to MS and Explorer is...? I don't see how it relates to Google and search at all.
- annabellish 8y ago
  >if you don't like the results Google's service provides, you'll choose a better service provider In the real world, this isn't always a clear option. If I run a restaurant I cannot cause everyone who might visit it to switch to a different maps provider. For the users, there _isn't_ a comparable service to Google Maps. The competition is fairly incomparable. This is a scenario which is only going to keep happening more often and worse as we move deeper into systems where _data_ is the differentiating factor. Competition becomes impossible when you're starting from zero and the entrenched player has decades of good, clean data.

hueving 8y ago

>The ratings and reviews are integral part of a map product. No they are not. I and many others I know just use the "map product" for directions to get to places. Google maps was useful long before the integration of the cesspool of crowd-sourced reviews. You might want a map of top 10 whatever voted by the democratic people of Gmaps/Yelp busy-bodies but there is no reason that needs to be in the core. Google maps has an API that lets you plot things on it. Yelp can plot things on it. Leave maps to be maps and keep the clutter of opinion diarrhea out of there.

jryle70 8y ago
If you search for places to eat at 10pm, wouldn't you also want to know if they are still open, what kind of food they offer, how people rate them? Google Maps is such a dominant service that a competing company like Yelp will be at a huge disadvantage. No wonder Yelp complains. But you can't say what Google does doesn't make sense.
- jasonlotito 8y ago
  > If you search for places to eat at 10pm... All the times I've searched for places to eat at 10pm or later, no. I just wanted to find the place.
- mmt 8y ago
  >wouldn't you also want to know if they are still open, Yes, but my experience is that, especially for the case of later (or earlier) than peak business hours for an area, I can't trust a second- or third-hand source like a mapping service for this kind of information. Even if it weren't for the GIGO problem, I still have the UI problem in that there's only an "open now" boolean filter, which is horrible if I'm searching at 9:48 for places open after 10. >what kind of food they offer, Sometimes, but there's often at least a hint in the name of the restaurant. Often, though, the later it is, the less importance the kind of food holds. >how people rate them? Honestly, not even a little, since, by this point, it's a "beggars can't be choosers" situation. Plus, even if I had the inclination to dig into the reviews, I wouldn't care what people thought of, for example, the service during the dinner rush.
- hueving 8y ago
  You don't need user ratings to tell if they are open or what type of restaurant it is. That's basic business information that Google has allowed businesses to provide forever.

gregknicholson 8y ago

> In a fair world, there would be an option in Google… In a fair world, if you don't like the results Google's service provides, you'll choose a better service provider. Google's search service has always used a business model like “give us your query; we'll apply our proprietary algorithm and return results”. If you don't like those results, you don't like Google's service. You can ask them to change their service so that you like it better; but they have never agreed to do so for you, and they're under no obligation. Google should be able to do what they like; users can choose not to use Google's services.

telltruth 8y ago
One can argue that Microsoft may put whatever they want as default on their OS and customers always have choice to vote with their wallet. In real world, most of the population is too naive to change default or learn something new just because of technology ideology differences. Furthermore, if I want to switch over to something else, I would lose other dozens of apps that are not available there. So customer is effectively tied up with dominant product and accept it as benevolent dictator. The apparent choice in theory is not really a choice in reality.
- gregknicholson 8y ago
  Yes, this is precisely the problem. Capitalism does not produce good quality products and services without genuine competition.
- dougfelt 8y ago
  And the point of this reference to MS and Explorer is...? I don't see how it relates to Google and search at all.
annabellish 8y ago
>if you don't like the results Google's service provides, you'll choose a better service provider In the real world, this isn't always a clear option. If I run a restaurant I cannot cause everyone who might visit it to switch to a different maps provider. For the users, there _isn't_ a comparable service to Google Maps. The competition is fairly incomparable. This is a scenario which is only going to keep happening more often and worse as we move deeper into systems where _data_ is the differentiating factor. Competition becomes impossible when you're starting from zero and the entrenched player has decades of good, clean data.