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So, I'll join the chorus here by saying that I've picked up the subscription fee. I've been using their software daily for over three years. During that time,

So, I'll join the chorus here by saying that I've picked up the subscription fee. I've been using their software daily for over three years. During that time, they have consistently improved their product and have been open about issues (as far as I am concerned). I was a little irked when I saw the subscription model. I was like, "hey, I paid for this." So, I looked up how much I paid in licenses by looking them up.. in 1Password. Turns out I paid about $40 for the Mac, Windows, iOS, and Android clients. That's $40 over three years for something that I use daily. Then, look at the $5/mo subscription for families. I get something that gives me access to all their software versions (Mac, Windows, iOS and Android) for five people, my entire family (if my cat ever decides to get a computer). I am a software professional. I pay for tools that keep me going and return me money because they offer me productivity. I pay for Things, Bear, iThoughts, and may other apps that have helped me greatly. One important statement I make to people is: _the price for security is eternal vigilance_. There are always new ways things get attacked and new ways to be more secure. I realized that I was gladly willing to pay $60/year to keep me and my family going while keeping AgileBits running as well. If there was anything that deserves a subscription, it is your security software. If its any consolation, several of my developer friends feel the same way. My two cents.

jiveturkey 8y ago
not just that there’s a cost to keeping this kind of software useful, for the subscription agilebits is actually adding value. unlike say adobe.
archagon 8y ago
As time goes on, I've gotten less and less comfortable using proprietary software for critical tasks. If 1Password were open source, I'd actually be pretty happy to subscribe. But as it stands, I have no faith that the product won't change out from under me in the future, whether due to a pivot, an acquisition, or some other reason. The incentives align in favor of the business, not the customer. IMHO, subscriptions are already pointing in that direction. I'd rather use something like pass and deal with the downsides. (Though I admittedly haven't switched yet.)
- samatman 8y ago
  For me, something related: can I remove the data in a usable form? 1Password makes that easy, so like others here, I'm happy to pay them to perform the 'eternal vigilance' that secret-keeping entails.
  - Nullabillity 8y ago
    For now...
    - facetube 8y ago
      Removing the ability to get your own passwords out of your password management utility that you paid for would be corporate suicide.
      - iuguy 8y ago
        Crippling it, not so much. I moved away from 1password at the time of the subscription palaver. I managed to move everything to Keepass but each entry has it's own folder. I don't blame 1Password for the state of my Keepass db (although they pretty much forced my hand) but the closed nature of 1Password does bite you in the arse when you decide to leave.
        facetube 8y ago
        I keep meaning to write some Applescript and/or browser glue for pass(1). Uses GPG, checks into Git, and even has an iOS app.
        brightball 8y ago
        I switched from 1Password to LastPass last year and it was a smooth transition. If they’d had a Linux version I’d still be a customer right now.
        facetube 8y ago
red_hare 8y ago
Just gonna piggyback off this and say the family plan is an amazing value if you have aging parents. I recently upgraded to one, set up each of my parents with accounts, and moved all of their passwords out the physical and digital notes that their passwords were strung across and into 1password. This means no more iCloud password resets every time they need an app or call me for IT support. It means I can help them securely manage their financial accounts and photos as they get older. I can share with them my Netflix login. And I sleep better at night knowing they’ll be aware when one of their previously common recycled passwords is compromised.
- analogmemory 8y ago
  The family plan is honestly the best feature hands down. I setup my partner and my mom in it. There was some resistance at first to learning a "new thing". But now they love that they only have to remember one secure password and all their other passwords are automatically generated for them. No more pet names as passwords!
fnordsensei 8y ago
Is it possible to pay for a subscription and use a local vault? I've no problem with the business model, but I'd rather keep the data to myself. Edit: Answered my own question > 1Password 7 from the Mac App Store will only support our hosted service, as that’s what you’re purchasing with a 1Password membership. If you install from our website, you’ll have to option to use a standalone vault synced via iCloud if you purchase a standalone license, or use our hosted service if you purchase a 1Password membership.
- cjcampbell 8y ago
  Yes it is. The new release even brings local vault to Windows.
  - fnordsensei 8y ago
    From what I'm reading now, it seems like it's read-only. Only to get things from a vault onto their servers. I still don't understand how the revenue model (subscriptions) necessitates the technical solution (cloud storage).
    - bwoodruff 8y ago
      > From what I'm reading now, it seems like it's read-only. Only to get things from a vault onto their servers. With 1Password 6 for Windows that is the case, but not with 1Password 7. > I still don't understand how the revenue model (subscriptions) necessitates the technical solution (cloud storage). It doesn't. But that is the recommended solution. You _can_ subscribe and use a standalone vault. But you're missing out on functionality that you're paying for that way. Ben Woodruff AgileBits
      - fnordsensei 8y ago
        Thank you Ben. Yes, I get that. There's a subset (maybe 10-20%) of data that I can't (in some cases because of legislation)/don't want to put in the cloud, while the majority would be just fine. So, yes, I'd have to accept the compromise. Thank you again, I have now acquired a subscription and version 7 looks very nice indeed.
DavideNL 8y ago
You are making the same mistake with these arguments as many people make; nobody is complaining about paying for software. People are complaining about subscriptions, because for example you easily loose track of what exactly it is your paying for. Paying for an upgrade clearly shows you that you're paying some amount for some list of new features. You can then choose whether or not it's worth paying for. (just to name 1 disadvantage.) For customers there are 0 benefits to a subscription model. For companies of course there are many.
- jonknee 8y ago
  > For customers there are 0 benefits to a subscription model. For companies of course there are many. OP described in detail the benefit for customers--constantly updated software. Critical for something as security conscience as a password manager.
  - chrischen 8y ago
    People updated software before they started using subscription models. Paying for software meant they had to make more compelling updates.
    - seandougall 8y ago
      True in the traditional model. But the Mac App Store model doesn’t have paid upgrades, which meant there was no incentive for them to keep updating. With a subscription system, there’s (theoretically at least) the possibility that customers would jump ship if they feel the developers aren’t pulling their weight.
      - chrischen 8y ago
        Lucky for MacOS users we don’t have to use it like iOS users on the iOS app store.
    - nsgi 8y ago
      For something like a password manager, the most compelling updates are security fixes, but there are several problems with charging for these: - It's unreasonable to expect people to pay the full price for minor security fixes that still need to go out - Because security upgrades are invisible to the user, it may be harder for the customer to see their value v. new features - The timeline of when security updates need to go out is less predictable than that of feature upgrades, resulting in unpredictable revenue and expenditure for both the vendor and the customer and the customer may not have the budget to pay for an unexpected security fix - Customers often want to take time to consider whether it is worth paying for upgrades, whereas security fixes should be applied as soon as possible - The vendor must invest a lot of resources in testing the security of their software even when no security upgrades are warranted
chrischen 8y ago
It sounds like you feel like you underpaid. Then the solution is for them to charge more or charge for more of their products, not a subscription. A subscription basically forces you into paying for upgrades. The only thing a subscription model is good for is it wrestes power from the consumer. With the traditional model if they decide to stop updating the app, you wouldn’t buy the next version, and that would be your leverage. With a subscription model, they can decide to stop deivering updates, or deliver lower quality updates, and you’d be forced to pay perpetually just to keep the existing software operational.
- gkoberger 8y ago
  Here's a counterpoint: If someone pays $40 for, say, 1Password 5, they have no incentive to upgrade. It works well enough, and there's no reason to pay again. So, 1Password is stuck supporting a legacy product (and servers / APIs for it), the user is frustrated by an old version of the software, and the company gets no money so they're at risk of folding (which would hurt both the customer and 1Password). I agree that subscriptions can get annoying. However, if it ultimately is about the same price, it ends up working out much better for both sides. And hey, they can always stop their subscription and go somewhere else if things get bad. They don't lose their buying power completely.
  - pktgen 8y ago
    If they have no incentive to upgrade, that's because the newer versions don't add any value for the user. This makes sense: 1Password is a pretty mature product at this point and there probably isn't much room to add new features, unless you want to expand the scope of the product. That is to say that I personally (and again, this is just my opinion) don't care about any new features and would be unlikely to upgrade from version 6 on that basis. I may upgrade to ensure I will continue receiving security updates and OS and browser extension compatibility updates, but it would be nice to know how long such updates to version 7 are guaranteed for (presumably they will eventually release version 8 for a new fee and discontinue such updates to version 7). > (and servers / APIs for it) The users (like me) who are against subscriptions are only using local vaults (managing the storage sync ourselves) and do not care for or want the web/sync services.
richie5um 8y ago
This story is similar to mine. I really don't want to have lots of subscriptions, but I use 1Password sooo much, it is a clear winner for my money.
dingaling 8y ago
Well this one tool is 'only' $60 per year[0]. But what if your compiler moved to subscription, and your text editor and your e-mail client and ... It's the thousand-cuts problem. And once you start on that path you can't go back, or else the tool stops working. [0] which is a substantial chunk of a day's after-tax pay for many people in the UK, for example. 1/400th of their salary for a password database.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  > And once you start on that path you can't go back, or else the tool stops working. How would you feel about a subscription service that guaranteed updates? Essentially, upgrade pricing, but charged every month.
  - fapjacks 8y ago
    Will my compiler or IDE stop working if I don't pay the subscription fee? You can guess how I'd feel about that.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      No: you’re paying for updates, not the privilege of getting to use the software.
  - spronkey 8y ago
    So, you have a perpetual license to use the latest version of the software that you paid for? Perfect. ... But JetBrains attempted to explain why this doesn't work with the subscription model. And failed IMO, but regardless.
- vsl 8y ago
  My compiler (MSVC) is subscription. My go-to editor for other stuff (PyCharm and other JetBrains editors) is a subscription. My email client isn't, but my email hosting (FastMail), which has a web client, is. It doesn't even register -- they are tools I need for my work and I'm happy to pay yearly for them. It's worth nothing that with the exception of email (which, being on my own domain, I can always move elsewhere), I still keep usable licenses if I stop subscribing, I am not locked-in.
beepbeepbeep1 8y ago
I am a long time 1Password user, purchased Mac licenses, IOS and Android over the years. I was annoyed when it changed to being subscription based, the price wasn't an issue I think for the value it gives the price is fair, 1Password is the only thing now keeping me on a Mac. The issue i had with it is you don't own the software and when my credit card expired and i forgot to update it losing access to passwords even if temporarily until updating the card details left a bad taste and showed the downside of being subscription only. It's been on my list to move away ever since. 12 months on I've still not done it, there's lot's of alternatives but 1Password have the UX and functionality just right however i know i should move as i now don't own my passwords.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- danieldk 8y ago
  I was annoyed when it changed to being subscription based, the price wasn't an issue I think for the value it gives the price is fair, 1Password is the only thing now keeping me on a Mac. 1Password X works on Firefox and Chrome on Linux.
- crtasm 8y ago
  there's not even a grace period to export your passwords? If not, wow that's a major downside! Comment elsewhere in this thread points out they have a Linux CLI app now as well.
  - bwoodruff 8y ago
    When accounts are frozen (which is what happens if you stop paying) 1Password enters a read-only state. You can’t use the browser extensions, make modifications, or add new data, but you’ll have read-only access to your data. We do have a CLI that runs on Linux (as well as Mac and Windows). Ben Woodruff AgileBits
    - crtasm 8y ago
      Thanks for clarifying.
burnte 8y ago
I had purchased a bundle for Win/OSX/Android a while ago, several years, bu somewhere around 2ish years ago, I jumped into the subscription model to support it going forward. Worth every penny to me.
ratbeard 8y ago
I've been happy with 1password as well, other than two times my vault would not unlock until I restarted my computer. Making it seem like you lost access to all your passwords seems just below security issues as far as high priority bugs, in my opinion.. https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/82915/why-cant-i-open-my-1password-safe-on-osx-without-rebooting-sometimes https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/82915/why-cant-...
will_dev_4_food 8y ago
I have two free password managers. Both iOS. One open source, and one just free. https://github.com/UCFirefly/Pythonista https://github.com/UCFirefly/Pythonista Or https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dyfynderx/id1345759526?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dyfynderx/id1345759526?mt=8
deleted 8y ago
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jiveturkey 8y ago

not just that there’s a cost to keeping this kind of software useful, for the subscription agilebits is actually adding value. unlike say adobe.

archagon 8y ago

As time goes on, I've gotten less and less comfortable using proprietary software for critical tasks. If 1Password were open source, I'd actually be pretty happy to subscribe. But as it stands, I have no faith that the product won't change out from under me in the future, whether due to a pivot, an acquisition, or some other reason. The incentives align in favor of the business, not the customer. IMHO, subscriptions are already pointing in that direction. I'd rather use something like pass and deal with the downsides. (Though I admittedly haven't switched yet.)

samatman 8y ago
For me, something related: can I remove the data in a usable form? 1Password makes that easy, so like others here, I'm happy to pay them to perform the 'eternal vigilance' that secret-keeping entails.
- Nullabillity 8y ago
  For now...
  - facetube 8y ago
    Removing the ability to get your own passwords out of your password management utility that you paid for would be corporate suicide.
    - iuguy 8y ago
      Crippling it, not so much. I moved away from 1password at the time of the subscription palaver. I managed to move everything to Keepass but each entry has it's own folder. I don't blame 1Password for the state of my Keepass db (although they pretty much forced my hand) but the closed nature of 1Password does bite you in the arse when you decide to leave.
      - facetube 8y ago
        I keep meaning to write some Applescript and/or browser glue for pass(1). Uses GPG, checks into Git, and even has an iOS app.
      - brightball 8y ago
        I switched from 1Password to LastPass last year and it was a smooth transition. If they’d had a Linux version I’d still be a customer right now.
        facetube 8y ago

red_hare 8y ago

Just gonna piggyback off this and say the family plan is an amazing value if you have aging parents. I recently upgraded to one, set up each of my parents with accounts, and moved all of their passwords out the physical and digital notes that their passwords were strung across and into 1password. This means no more iCloud password resets every time they need an app or call me for IT support. It means I can help them securely manage their financial accounts and photos as they get older. I can share with them my Netflix login. And I sleep better at night knowing they’ll be aware when one of their previously common recycled passwords is compromised.

analogmemory 8y ago
The family plan is honestly the best feature hands down. I setup my partner and my mom in it. There was some resistance at first to learning a "new thing". But now they love that they only have to remember one secure password and all their other passwords are automatically generated for them. No more pet names as passwords!

fnordsensei 8y ago

Is it possible to pay for a subscription and use a local vault? I've no problem with the business model, but I'd rather keep the data to myself. Edit: Answered my own question > 1Password 7 from the Mac App Store will only support our hosted service, as that’s what you’re purchasing with a 1Password membership. If you install from our website, you’ll have to option to use a standalone vault synced via iCloud if you purchase a standalone license, or use our hosted service if you purchase a 1Password membership.

cjcampbell 8y ago
Yes it is. The new release even brings local vault to Windows.
- fnordsensei 8y ago
  From what I'm reading now, it seems like it's read-only. Only to get things from a vault onto their servers. I still don't understand how the revenue model (subscriptions) necessitates the technical solution (cloud storage).
  - bwoodruff 8y ago
    > From what I'm reading now, it seems like it's read-only. Only to get things from a vault onto their servers. With 1Password 6 for Windows that is the case, but not with 1Password 7. > I still don't understand how the revenue model (subscriptions) necessitates the technical solution (cloud storage). It doesn't. But that is the recommended solution. You _can_ subscribe and use a standalone vault. But you're missing out on functionality that you're paying for that way. Ben Woodruff AgileBits
    - fnordsensei 8y ago
      Thank you Ben. Yes, I get that. There's a subset (maybe 10-20%) of data that I can't (in some cases because of legislation)/don't want to put in the cloud, while the majority would be just fine. So, yes, I'd have to accept the compromise. Thank you again, I have now acquired a subscription and version 7 looks very nice indeed.

DavideNL 8y ago

You are making the same mistake with these arguments as many people make; nobody is complaining about paying for software. People are complaining about subscriptions, because for example you easily loose track of what exactly it is your paying for. Paying for an upgrade clearly shows you that you're paying some amount for some list of new features. You can then choose whether or not it's worth paying for. (just to name 1 disadvantage.) For customers there are 0 benefits to a subscription model. For companies of course there are many.

jonknee 8y ago
> For customers there are 0 benefits to a subscription model. For companies of course there are many. OP described in detail the benefit for customers--constantly updated software. Critical for something as security conscience as a password manager.
- chrischen 8y ago
  People updated software before they started using subscription models. Paying for software meant they had to make more compelling updates.
  - seandougall 8y ago
    True in the traditional model. But the Mac App Store model doesn’t have paid upgrades, which meant there was no incentive for them to keep updating. With a subscription system, there’s (theoretically at least) the possibility that customers would jump ship if they feel the developers aren’t pulling their weight.
    - chrischen 8y ago
      Lucky for MacOS users we don’t have to use it like iOS users on the iOS app store.
  - nsgi 8y ago
    For something like a password manager, the most compelling updates are security fixes, but there are several problems with charging for these: - It's unreasonable to expect people to pay the full price for minor security fixes that still need to go out - Because security upgrades are invisible to the user, it may be harder for the customer to see their value v. new features - The timeline of when security updates need to go out is less predictable than that of feature upgrades, resulting in unpredictable revenue and expenditure for both the vendor and the customer and the customer may not have the budget to pay for an unexpected security fix - Customers often want to take time to consider whether it is worth paying for upgrades, whereas security fixes should be applied as soon as possible - The vendor must invest a lot of resources in testing the security of their software even when no security upgrades are warranted

chrischen 8y ago

It sounds like you feel like you underpaid. Then the solution is for them to charge more or charge for more of their products, not a subscription. A subscription basically forces you into paying for upgrades. The only thing a subscription model is good for is it wrestes power from the consumer. With the traditional model if they decide to stop updating the app, you wouldn’t buy the next version, and that would be your leverage. With a subscription model, they can decide to stop deivering updates, or deliver lower quality updates, and you’d be forced to pay perpetually just to keep the existing software operational.

gkoberger 8y ago
Here's a counterpoint: If someone pays $40 for, say, 1Password 5, they have no incentive to upgrade. It works well enough, and there's no reason to pay again. So, 1Password is stuck supporting a legacy product (and servers / APIs for it), the user is frustrated by an old version of the software, and the company gets no money so they're at risk of folding (which would hurt both the customer and 1Password). I agree that subscriptions can get annoying. However, if it ultimately is about the same price, it ends up working out much better for both sides. And hey, they can always stop their subscription and go somewhere else if things get bad. They don't lose their buying power completely.
- pktgen 8y ago
  If they have no incentive to upgrade, that's because the newer versions don't add any value for the user. This makes sense: 1Password is a pretty mature product at this point and there probably isn't much room to add new features, unless you want to expand the scope of the product. That is to say that I personally (and again, this is just my opinion) don't care about any new features and would be unlikely to upgrade from version 6 on that basis. I may upgrade to ensure I will continue receiving security updates and OS and browser extension compatibility updates, but it would be nice to know how long such updates to version 7 are guaranteed for (presumably they will eventually release version 8 for a new fee and discontinue such updates to version 7). > (and servers / APIs for it) The users (like me) who are against subscriptions are only using local vaults (managing the storage sync ourselves) and do not care for or want the web/sync services.

richie5um 8y ago

This story is similar to mine. I really don't want to have lots of subscriptions, but I use 1Password sooo much, it is a clear winner for my money.

dingaling 8y ago

Well this one tool is 'only' $60 per year[0]. But what if your compiler moved to subscription, and your text editor and your e-mail client and ... It's the thousand-cuts problem. And once you start on that path you can't go back, or else the tool stops working. [0] which is a substantial chunk of a day's after-tax pay for many people in the UK, for example. 1/400th of their salary for a password database.

saagarjha 8y ago
> And once you start on that path you can't go back, or else the tool stops working. How would you feel about a subscription service that guaranteed updates? Essentially, upgrade pricing, but charged every month.
- fapjacks 8y ago
  Will my compiler or IDE stop working if I don't pay the subscription fee? You can guess how I'd feel about that.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    No: you’re paying for updates, not the privilege of getting to use the software.
- spronkey 8y ago
  So, you have a perpetual license to use the latest version of the software that you paid for? Perfect. ... But JetBrains attempted to explain why this doesn't work with the subscription model. And failed IMO, but regardless.
vsl 8y ago
My compiler (MSVC) is subscription. My go-to editor for other stuff (PyCharm and other JetBrains editors) is a subscription. My email client isn't, but my email hosting (FastMail), which has a web client, is. It doesn't even register -- they are tools I need for my work and I'm happy to pay yearly for them. It's worth nothing that with the exception of email (which, being on my own domain, I can always move elsewhere), I still keep usable licenses if I stop subscribing, I am not locked-in.

beepbeepbeep1 8y ago

I am a long time 1Password user, purchased Mac licenses, IOS and Android over the years. I was annoyed when it changed to being subscription based, the price wasn't an issue I think for the value it gives the price is fair, 1Password is the only thing now keeping me on a Mac. The issue i had with it is you don't own the software and when my credit card expired and i forgot to update it losing access to passwords even if temporarily until updating the card details left a bad taste and showed the downside of being subscription only. It's been on my list to move away ever since. 12 months on I've still not done it, there's lot's of alternatives but 1Password have the UX and functionality just right however i know i should move as i now don't own my passwords.

deleted 8y ago
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danieldk 8y ago
I was annoyed when it changed to being subscription based, the price wasn't an issue I think for the value it gives the price is fair, 1Password is the only thing now keeping me on a Mac. 1Password X works on Firefox and Chrome on Linux.
crtasm 8y ago
there's not even a grace period to export your passwords? If not, wow that's a major downside! Comment elsewhere in this thread points out they have a Linux CLI app now as well.
- bwoodruff 8y ago
  When accounts are frozen (which is what happens if you stop paying) 1Password enters a read-only state. You can’t use the browser extensions, make modifications, or add new data, but you’ll have read-only access to your data. We do have a CLI that runs on Linux (as well as Mac and Windows). Ben Woodruff AgileBits
  - crtasm 8y ago
    Thanks for clarifying.

burnte 8y ago

I had purchased a bundle for Win/OSX/Android a while ago, several years, bu somewhere around 2ish years ago, I jumped into the subscription model to support it going forward. Worth every penny to me.

ratbeard 8y ago

I've been happy with 1password as well, other than two times my vault would not unlock until I restarted my computer. Making it seem like you lost access to all your passwords seems just below security issues as far as high priority bugs, in my opinion.. https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/82915/why-cant-i-open-my-1password-safe-on-osx-without-rebooting-sometimes https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/82915/why-cant-...

will_dev_4_food 8y ago

I have two free password managers. Both iOS. One open source, and one just free. https://github.com/UCFirefly/Pythonista https://github.com/UCFirefly/Pythonista Or https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dyfynderx/id1345759526?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dyfynderx/id1345759526?mt=8

deleted 8y ago

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