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You obviously know that it's a crime in Germany. The parent's friend obviously didn't. Are you actually in support of rule of law no matter what, or is it just

You obviously know that it's a crime in Germany. The parent's friend obviously didn't. Are you actually in support of rule of law no matter what, or is it just this law you like? For example, are you OK with China executing Falun Gong members? Are you OK with ISIS killing gay people (it's the law of Islam!)? Are you OK with slavery as long as it's legal? Or are you just angry about Nazis especially out of all the other horrible groups in history for some reason? What about the Romans? They were pretty brutal - do you want to destroy the property of people who write roman numerals and write Latin phrases on things? Your extreme reaction doesn't make sense to me. > lack the adequate character to safely operate a vehicle It has nothing to do with safety. I grew up playing Wolfenstein 3D and watching the History channel. Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere. It was in no sense a crime or an indication that you're so mentally ill that you're going to crash your car. > No. You had Nazi symbolism on your car because you are likely someone who agrees with the ideology. This also reflects in the kind of people you hang around with. Please don't make personal judgments. I explained my reason.

tscs37 8y ago
When you go to another country, you follow the law there. If you break it, expect punishment. That doesn't mean the law is okay but the country is fully free to punish you as they see fit. > Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere. Not here. Outside of certain exceptions, don't go waving around Nazi symbols in the country that to this day regrets this part of history.
KozmoNau7 8y ago
>"I grew up playing Wolfenstein 3D and watching the History channel. Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere." You obviously should have paid a lot more attention, then. Can it with the whataboutism, it's not helping you. If you visit a country, you respect its laws and customs. You don't go around breaking them because you disagree with them. Leave it to the residents of that country to change their laws if needed, don't be an invading asshole.
- lopmotr 8y ago
  I'm sure he didn't know that law. That seems to be lost on everyone in this thread. It would be a complete surprise to someone who didn't see Nazis as a real personal terrible anger-shame-inducing thing and who comes from a country with freedom of speech.
  - DocTomoe 8y ago
    > I'm sure he didn't know that law. Let me speak it out for you again: It doesn't matter. Ignorance does not protect against punishment.
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    Ignorance is not an excuse. Would you find it acceptable to go "heil Hitler!" at random people? I hope you don't. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Your friend must have been completely and utterly ignorant of fundamental history. That's not something to be proud of.
- lopmotr 8y ago
  You're culturally oblivious. Stop being so insulting. I wasn't rude to anybody but I'm suddenly facing a barrage of abuse. I get it that Germans have a penchant for imprisoning people because they're insulted. But the rest of us don't have that luxury. Just stop being an asshole to people you talk to. I wasn't using whataboutism. I was showing an inconsistency in the commenter's general claim. Do you also really believe gays are being assholes if they have sex in Saudi Arabia? That they should show respect to the culture that has a deep shame about homosexuals?
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    I'm being culturally ignorant? That's rich. Is it US culture to just randomly insult everyone? >"Do you also really believe gays are being assholes if they have sex in Saudi Arabia? That they should show respect to the culture that has a deep shame about homosexuals?" More whataboutism. No, I don't think they're assholes, I think they're idiots. Going to a notoriously anti-gay country, with a death penalty for homosexuality, and then completely flouting those laws? Yeah, that's a really bad idea.
Lev1a 8y ago
It's like going to the US and saying to the first black customs officer you see something along the lines of "So how's slavery treating ya?"/"Boy, get my luggage and find me a car!". This is universally known as insensitive behaviour and no amount of "muh free speech" is gonna save you from being charged with a hate crime. When you go to a country, at the very least make the effort not to offend officials with the worst part of that country's history. Otherwise you're not just gonna be seen as a total (criminal) twat but also a lazy one at that.
- lopmotr 8y ago
  Racist comments aren't hate crimes in the US. It's violence that is. You won't be charged with anything. You subscribe to the might-makes-right mindset by demanding respect for people who have the power to punish you. That's practical, but not morally very solid since it implies less politeness to weaker people. Some would argue the 30 years war was worse than the Nazis. It killed more people than the holocaust, and at a time when the population was much smaller. I totally oppose physical violence against people for saying insults. That's terrible to me. For exactly this reason - innocent people not trying to hurt anybody end up getting punished because they're misunderstood. The swastika really doesn't mean the same thing to people everywhere in the world. Not everyone shares the Germans' violent anger at people who remind them of their past.
  - Lev1a 8y ago
    No, I subscribe to the concept of "basic decency", I would not even say that phrase to a dying beggar lying in the streets. But still fuck you for comparing an instance of senseless mass-murder/genocide with a religious war spanning 30 years and involving most of central europe ~400 years ago, at a time where the slightest wound may have condemned one to die, notwithstanding the quite "good" chance to starve or die from plague as back then hygiene wasn't really that important to the people.
DocTomoe 8y ago
> You obviously know that it's a crime in Germany. The parent's friend obviously didn't. Again, if I go to another country, it is my personal duty to familiarize myself with their laws. Just because I never read an US criminal code does not mean I should happily start murdering people once I walk out of JFK. After all, how could I have known murder actually is a crime in the United States, given how often it happens there? Of course, a sensible person wouldn't start murdering people at the airport just after touchdown because they did not learn the host country's law. A sensible person, however, would also not start using that kind of greeting. > Are you actually in support of rule of law no matter what, or is it just this law you like? For example, are you OK with China executing Falun Gong members? To my knowledge, China does not execute Falun Gong members for being Falun Gong members, but for crimes which just so happen to be considered capital by the Chinese authorities. If or if not any given executed Falun Gong member actually is guilty of that particular crime is the actual question. > Are you OK with ISIS killing gay people (it's the law of Islam!)? ISIS is not considered to be a legitimate government of anything, so obviously no. > Are you OK with slavery as long as it's legal? Slavery is not legal anywhere in the world. > Or are you just angry about Nazis especially out of all the other horrible groups in history for some reason? Fun fact: German law also forbids the use of other organization's insignia under the same law, namely the PKK's (Kurdish terrorist group/communist party) or the FDJ's (Former East Germany scout-like youth organization). And I am perfectly ok with that, even though Nazis are particularly problematic: They are an actual danger to our society. > What about the Romans? They were pretty brutal - do you want to destroy the property of people who write roman numerals and write Latin phrases on things? Differently from the Nazis, the Romans were law-abiding people who did not try to overthrow a legitimate government. > It has nothing to do with safety. I grew up playing Wolfenstein 3D and watching the History channel. Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere. It was in no sense a crime or an indication that you're so mentally ill that you're going to crash your car. Hey, in Germany, if you show you do not care for laws repeatedly (or once, involving a vehicle), how do we know if you care for traffic safety laws? There have been cases where we took away the driving license of people who parked in a no-parking zone repeatedly... (and personally, I think a lot more people need to lose their license for life. It's a privilege, not a right). > Please don't make personal judgments. I explained my reason. You have a convicted nazi criminal in your family and have at some point have had nazi symbolism on your car. Yeah, your explanation is a very likely story.

tscs37 8y ago

When you go to another country, you follow the law there. If you break it, expect punishment. That doesn't mean the law is okay but the country is fully free to punish you as they see fit. > Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere. Not here. Outside of certain exceptions, don't go waving around Nazi symbols in the country that to this day regrets this part of history.

KozmoNau7 8y ago

>"I grew up playing Wolfenstein 3D and watching the History channel. Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere." You obviously should have paid a lot more attention, then. Can it with the whataboutism, it's not helping you. If you visit a country, you respect its laws and customs. You don't go around breaking them because you disagree with them. Leave it to the residents of that country to change their laws if needed, don't be an invading asshole.

lopmotr 8y ago
I'm sure he didn't know that law. That seems to be lost on everyone in this thread. It would be a complete surprise to someone who didn't see Nazis as a real personal terrible anger-shame-inducing thing and who comes from a country with freedom of speech.
- DocTomoe 8y ago
  > I'm sure he didn't know that law. Let me speak it out for you again: It doesn't matter. Ignorance does not protect against punishment.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  Ignorance is not an excuse. Would you find it acceptable to go "heil Hitler!" at random people? I hope you don't. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Your friend must have been completely and utterly ignorant of fundamental history. That's not something to be proud of.
lopmotr 8y ago
You're culturally oblivious. Stop being so insulting. I wasn't rude to anybody but I'm suddenly facing a barrage of abuse. I get it that Germans have a penchant for imprisoning people because they're insulted. But the rest of us don't have that luxury. Just stop being an asshole to people you talk to. I wasn't using whataboutism. I was showing an inconsistency in the commenter's general claim. Do you also really believe gays are being assholes if they have sex in Saudi Arabia? That they should show respect to the culture that has a deep shame about homosexuals?
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  I'm being culturally ignorant? That's rich. Is it US culture to just randomly insult everyone? >"Do you also really believe gays are being assholes if they have sex in Saudi Arabia? That they should show respect to the culture that has a deep shame about homosexuals?" More whataboutism. No, I don't think they're assholes, I think they're idiots. Going to a notoriously anti-gay country, with a death penalty for homosexuality, and then completely flouting those laws? Yeah, that's a really bad idea.

Lev1a 8y ago

It's like going to the US and saying to the first black customs officer you see something along the lines of "So how's slavery treating ya?"/"Boy, get my luggage and find me a car!". This is universally known as insensitive behaviour and no amount of "muh free speech" is gonna save you from being charged with a hate crime. When you go to a country, at the very least make the effort not to offend officials with the worst part of that country's history. Otherwise you're not just gonna be seen as a total (criminal) twat but also a lazy one at that.

lopmotr 8y ago
Racist comments aren't hate crimes in the US. It's violence that is. You won't be charged with anything. You subscribe to the might-makes-right mindset by demanding respect for people who have the power to punish you. That's practical, but not morally very solid since it implies less politeness to weaker people. Some would argue the 30 years war was worse than the Nazis. It killed more people than the holocaust, and at a time when the population was much smaller. I totally oppose physical violence against people for saying insults. That's terrible to me. For exactly this reason - innocent people not trying to hurt anybody end up getting punished because they're misunderstood. The swastika really doesn't mean the same thing to people everywhere in the world. Not everyone shares the Germans' violent anger at people who remind them of their past.
- Lev1a 8y ago
  No, I subscribe to the concept of "basic decency", I would not even say that phrase to a dying beggar lying in the streets. But still fuck you for comparing an instance of senseless mass-murder/genocide with a religious war spanning 30 years and involving most of central europe ~400 years ago, at a time where the slightest wound may have condemned one to die, notwithstanding the quite "good" chance to starve or die from plague as back then hygiene wasn't really that important to the people.

DocTomoe 8y ago

> You obviously know that it's a crime in Germany. The parent's friend obviously didn't. Again, if I go to another country, it is my personal duty to familiarize myself with their laws. Just because I never read an US criminal code does not mean I should happily start murdering people once I walk out of JFK. After all, how could I have known murder actually is a crime in the United States, given how often it happens there? Of course, a sensible person wouldn't start murdering people at the airport just after touchdown because they did not learn the host country's law. A sensible person, however, would also not start using that kind of greeting. > Are you actually in support of rule of law no matter what, or is it just this law you like? For example, are you OK with China executing Falun Gong members? To my knowledge, China does not execute Falun Gong members for being Falun Gong members, but for crimes which just so happen to be considered capital by the Chinese authorities. If or if not any given executed Falun Gong member actually is guilty of that particular crime is the actual question. > Are you OK with ISIS killing gay people (it's the law of Islam!)? ISIS is not considered to be a legitimate government of anything, so obviously no. > Are you OK with slavery as long as it's legal? Slavery is not legal anywhere in the world. > Or are you just angry about Nazis especially out of all the other horrible groups in history for some reason? Fun fact: German law also forbids the use of other organization's insignia under the same law, namely the PKK's (Kurdish terrorist group/communist party) or the FDJ's (Former East Germany scout-like youth organization). And I am perfectly ok with that, even though Nazis are particularly problematic: They are an actual danger to our society. > What about the Romans? They were pretty brutal - do you want to destroy the property of people who write roman numerals and write Latin phrases on things? Differently from the Nazis, the Romans were law-abiding people who did not try to overthrow a legitimate government. > It has nothing to do with safety. I grew up playing Wolfenstein 3D and watching the History channel. Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere. It was in no sense a crime or an indication that you're so mentally ill that you're going to crash your car. Hey, in Germany, if you show you do not care for laws repeatedly (or once, involving a vehicle), how do we know if you care for traffic safety laws? There have been cases where we took away the driving license of people who parked in a no-parking zone repeatedly... (and personally, I think a lot more people need to lose their license for life. It's a privilege, not a right). > Please don't make personal judgments. I explained my reason. You have a convicted nazi criminal in your family and have at some point have had nazi symbolism on your car. Yeah, your explanation is a very likely story.