5 ms·

One of the demos showed the car "staying level" as it swerved aggressively. I wonder -- might it be reasonable to have it overcompensate? If a car could "lean i

One of the demos showed the car "staying level" as it swerved aggressively. I wonder -- might it be reasonable to have it overcompensate? If a car could "lean into" a curve like a motorbike, it could help driver comfort by turning some horizontal acceleration into (passenger-pose relative) vertical acceleration. Not sure about safety/grip implications.

jsight 8y ago
I was thinking the same thing. It would be sort of like banking in an airplane, that effectively removes the lateral force of a turn. The effect in a car wouldn't be as dramatic, but I could still imagine it being useful.
Gibbon1 8y ago
There was an attempt by British rail to develop a rail car that would lean into corners. How the car leans in a turn has a big effect on ride comfort. How a car leans and how the suspension responds has a big effect on how the tires contact the road which has a large influence on how sure footed the car feels. Historically there are trade offs between ride vs handling vs cost and 'branding'. What interesting to me about electro-mechanical systems is the ability use highly non linear control algorithms to improve the ride and handling. There are some potential benefits beyond just ride comfort, reduction of road wear[1] and anti-washboard control on unimproved roads. [1] Think of cars and trucks hammering a weak spot like a crack in a road surface.
- andrepd 8y ago
  It's called a tilting train: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_train
  - dgudkov 8y ago
    Also Pendolino: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendolino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendolino
hammock 8y ago
Most roads already have lean built into their turns, no tilting suspension necessary. And since it's built into the road, it positively impacts traction
- repsilat 8y ago
  That's true for a lot of rural roads. Not so much for parking lots, four-way intersections, roundabouts etc. And in many cases the road camber is suboptimal (or goes the wrong way...)
jacquesm 8y ago
Mercedes CL and S-class have had active suspension ('ABC') for about 20 years now with that feature, I believe Rolls Royce had it too. It's crazy expensive to repair if something breaks. Citroen pioneered it but is moving away from it. I've had a couple of DS's in the late 80's and after switching to another car (Austin Maxi) I once took a speedbump without slowing down and hit the roof with my head. The Citroen dealt with obstacles so well it made you forget they were there.
- uesjk 8y ago
  > It's crazy expensive to repair if something breaks. I've heard that a lot but I don't believe that to be true. It's actually just a fairly simple hydraulics system with a pump, oil lines, and some valves, all conected to the shock absorbers. The pneumatic part consists of these gas filled, self contained orbs, that you easily and affordably can get serviced. So I think this is probably a rumor maybe stemming from mechanics in generic car shops unfamiliar with these systems and unwilling to try to understand them working on them. Or using this rumor to charge people as much as they can get away with. Anyhow, it's unfortunate because mechanical engineering wise these are sound systems (not mentioning the software controller issues in some models, that all modern cars seem to be plagued with) and they offer a ride comfort that's unparalleled. And all this using simple, cheap and widely applied and proven techniques (pneumatics/hydraulics).
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    Car companies will be happy to ask you to pay $1200 for a simple hydraulic piston if they can get away with it. Car parts are as a rule overpriced. Even the refurbished ones run $500 and up: https://www.strutmasters.com/suspension-parts/mercedes/mercedes-cl55/ https://www.strutmasters.com/suspension-parts/mercedes/merce...

jsight 8y ago

I was thinking the same thing. It would be sort of like banking in an airplane, that effectively removes the lateral force of a turn. The effect in a car wouldn't be as dramatic, but I could still imagine it being useful.

Gibbon1 8y ago

There was an attempt by British rail to develop a rail car that would lean into corners. How the car leans in a turn has a big effect on ride comfort. How a car leans and how the suspension responds has a big effect on how the tires contact the road which has a large influence on how sure footed the car feels. Historically there are trade offs between ride vs handling vs cost and 'branding'. What interesting to me about electro-mechanical systems is the ability use highly non linear control algorithms to improve the ride and handling. There are some potential benefits beyond just ride comfort, reduction of road wear[1] and anti-washboard control on unimproved roads. [1] Think of cars and trucks hammering a weak spot like a crack in a road surface.

andrepd 8y ago
It's called a tilting train: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_train
- dgudkov 8y ago
  Also Pendolino: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendolino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendolino

hammock 8y ago

Most roads already have lean built into their turns, no tilting suspension necessary. And since it's built into the road, it positively impacts traction

repsilat 8y ago
That's true for a lot of rural roads. Not so much for parking lots, four-way intersections, roundabouts etc. And in many cases the road camber is suboptimal (or goes the wrong way...)

jacquesm 8y ago

Mercedes CL and S-class have had active suspension ('ABC') for about 20 years now with that feature, I believe Rolls Royce had it too. It's crazy expensive to repair if something breaks. Citroen pioneered it but is moving away from it. I've had a couple of DS's in the late 80's and after switching to another car (Austin Maxi) I once took a speedbump without slowing down and hit the roof with my head. The Citroen dealt with obstacles so well it made you forget they were there.

uesjk 8y ago
> It's crazy expensive to repair if something breaks. I've heard that a lot but I don't believe that to be true. It's actually just a fairly simple hydraulics system with a pump, oil lines, and some valves, all conected to the shock absorbers. The pneumatic part consists of these gas filled, self contained orbs, that you easily and affordably can get serviced. So I think this is probably a rumor maybe stemming from mechanics in generic car shops unfamiliar with these systems and unwilling to try to understand them working on them. Or using this rumor to charge people as much as they can get away with. Anyhow, it's unfortunate because mechanical engineering wise these are sound systems (not mentioning the software controller issues in some models, that all modern cars seem to be plagued with) and they offer a ride comfort that's unparalleled. And all this using simple, cheap and widely applied and proven techniques (pneumatics/hydraulics).
- jacquesm 8y ago
  Car companies will be happy to ask you to pay $1200 for a simple hydraulic piston if they can get away with it. Car parts are as a rule overpriced. Even the refurbished ones run $500 and up: https://www.strutmasters.com/suspension-parts/mercedes/mercedes-cl55/ https://www.strutmasters.com/suspension-parts/mercedes/merce...