4 ms·

I understand that place of employment is a big part of one's identity, but remember that you're a single Googler, not speaking on behalf of 50,000 of us. You sh

I understand that place of employment is a big part of one's identity, but remember that you're a single Googler, not speaking on behalf of 50,000 of us. You should not be using the word "we" the way you are - it's in poor taste.

utopcell 8y ago
I disagree with you. The company has identity. Would I had misrepresented you if I had said that we are the best search engine in the world ? I tried to give a balanced viewpoint so that I don't project more than what has been accomplished, but I feel personally offended when I read we are faking demos, and I instinctively desire to defend to the best of my abilities and without revealing non-disclosed information. I'm looking past your ``poor taste'' editorialism and I apologize if you feel that I offended you or singled you, or a part of the company, out.
- your-nanny 8y ago
  If you were personally involved then put your name on it and state in what capacity
  - utopcell 8y ago
    That's kind of aggressive. I was not / am not either directly or indirectly involved with this work.
    - your-nanny 8y ago
      You spoke as if you were.
- takeitto 8y ago
  It is just not a good idea to authenticate yourself as a Googler in these sorts of discussions. If there is doubt in the media about a tech from Google, Google's PR department is more than capable to handle that in due time. I think part of this guideline applies, and following it should avoid disclosure, embarrassment, or being forced to speak on the defensive of an entire company (not a job that most developers are automatically good at). > You probably know that our policy is to be extremely careful about disclosing confidential proprietary information. Consistent with that, you should also ensure your outside communications (including online and social media posts) do not disclose confidential proprietary information or represent (or otherwise give the impression) that you are speaking on behalf of Google unless you’re authorized to do so by the company. The same applies to communications with the press. Finally, check with your manager and Corporate Communications before accepting any public speaking engagement on behalf of the company. In general, before making any external communication or disclosure, you should consult our Employee Communications Policy and our Communications and Disclosure Policy. While a compiler may block you from writing faulty code, the media will just take your faults, and then present them as truths coming from upper management.
  - utopcell 8y ago
    Nobody forced me to defend the company, that should be obvious, plus I'm sure I'm within policy here. It seems that I am "attacked" primarily by fellow googlers, which speaks to my point: If this demo was fake, it would have been rightfully torn appart internally. By the way, did you just copy-paste our internal policy on a public forum ?
    - takeitto 8y ago
      I am not a Googler, and these guidelines are available here: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html (since they also apply to investors and external contractors who may not have access to internal policies). I am not trying to imply you are against the policy, just that it isn't a good idea to make yourself an accessible target in a "witch hunt". The media is clearly trying to kick up some shit. They know Duplex is hot, and so they try to find another angle/drama/controversy to continue the clicks-cycle. If they had anything of substance, then plenty of AI researchers would be lining up to be cited, warning against AI-hype and winters. The article would be called: "Google faked its Big A.I. Demo!". Now they are still on the prowl for anyone that will dignify them with a soundbite, be that on social media. Notice how few Facebookers stepped up here on Hackernews, when Facebook was the target of a negative news cycle. There is just no winning, just a lesser of two evils: Take a temporary hit to your pride, or let the media and fellow Hackernews posters take everything you say as an official company statement, attacking you and your colleagues while you weren't even directly involved in the project and can do little to alleviate any concerns or lies. My 2 cents: The demo was not faked. But of course the samples were cherry-picked to make for a good demo. Also, a large part of the negative coverage stems from irrational fear or misunderstanding of AI, futurism potential, and the first uncanny valley for natural conversation.
      - exodust 8y ago
        > a large part of the negative coverage stems from irrational fear or misunderstanding of AI... Irrational? No. At the heart of this demo is deception. After the deception comes "impressive tech" and all the rest. Booking hair appointments is one thing, but we all know these systems will be babysitting our children, teaching them new things, and responding to their verbal prompts. Emotional development in children is crucial for psychological health. FAKE synthetic emotion is not healthy, it's not cool. Having "Googlers" at the top of the ethics pyramid for AI systems in our homes, is worth a healthy dose of fear and loathing. "We are Google. We don't need to fake demos [of our fake human voice]" is precisely why Google shouldn't be dictating the terms of AI standards around ethical concerns and communication disclosures. This is about more than hair appointment bookings.
- shanghaiaway 8y ago
  Google is far from the best search engine so you would be completely wrong. You're awful at search in Chinese and Russian. A complete joke even.

utopcell 8y ago

I disagree with you. The company has identity. Would I had misrepresented you if I had said that we are the best search engine in the world ? I tried to give a balanced viewpoint so that I don't project more than what has been accomplished, but I feel personally offended when I read we are faking demos, and I instinctively desire to defend to the best of my abilities and without revealing non-disclosed information. I'm looking past your ``poor taste'' editorialism and I apologize if you feel that I offended you or singled you, or a part of the company, out.

your-nanny 8y ago
If you were personally involved then put your name on it and state in what capacity
- utopcell 8y ago
  That's kind of aggressive. I was not / am not either directly or indirectly involved with this work.
  - your-nanny 8y ago
    You spoke as if you were.
takeitto 8y ago
It is just not a good idea to authenticate yourself as a Googler in these sorts of discussions. If there is doubt in the media about a tech from Google, Google's PR department is more than capable to handle that in due time. I think part of this guideline applies, and following it should avoid disclosure, embarrassment, or being forced to speak on the defensive of an entire company (not a job that most developers are automatically good at). > You probably know that our policy is to be extremely careful about disclosing confidential proprietary information. Consistent with that, you should also ensure your outside communications (including online and social media posts) do not disclose confidential proprietary information or represent (or otherwise give the impression) that you are speaking on behalf of Google unless you’re authorized to do so by the company. The same applies to communications with the press. Finally, check with your manager and Corporate Communications before accepting any public speaking engagement on behalf of the company. In general, before making any external communication or disclosure, you should consult our Employee Communications Policy and our Communications and Disclosure Policy. While a compiler may block you from writing faulty code, the media will just take your faults, and then present them as truths coming from upper management.
- utopcell 8y ago
  Nobody forced me to defend the company, that should be obvious, plus I'm sure I'm within policy here. It seems that I am "attacked" primarily by fellow googlers, which speaks to my point: If this demo was fake, it would have been rightfully torn appart internally. By the way, did you just copy-paste our internal policy on a public forum ?
  - takeitto 8y ago
    I am not a Googler, and these guidelines are available here: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html (since they also apply to investors and external contractors who may not have access to internal policies). I am not trying to imply you are against the policy, just that it isn't a good idea to make yourself an accessible target in a "witch hunt". The media is clearly trying to kick up some shit. They know Duplex is hot, and so they try to find another angle/drama/controversy to continue the clicks-cycle. If they had anything of substance, then plenty of AI researchers would be lining up to be cited, warning against AI-hype and winters. The article would be called: "Google faked its Big A.I. Demo!". Now they are still on the prowl for anyone that will dignify them with a soundbite, be that on social media. Notice how few Facebookers stepped up here on Hackernews, when Facebook was the target of a negative news cycle. There is just no winning, just a lesser of two evils: Take a temporary hit to your pride, or let the media and fellow Hackernews posters take everything you say as an official company statement, attacking you and your colleagues while you weren't even directly involved in the project and can do little to alleviate any concerns or lies. My 2 cents: The demo was not faked. But of course the samples were cherry-picked to make for a good demo. Also, a large part of the negative coverage stems from irrational fear or misunderstanding of AI, futurism potential, and the first uncanny valley for natural conversation.
    - exodust 8y ago
      > a large part of the negative coverage stems from irrational fear or misunderstanding of AI... Irrational? No. At the heart of this demo is deception. After the deception comes "impressive tech" and all the rest. Booking hair appointments is one thing, but we all know these systems will be babysitting our children, teaching them new things, and responding to their verbal prompts. Emotional development in children is crucial for psychological health. FAKE synthetic emotion is not healthy, it's not cool. Having "Googlers" at the top of the ethics pyramid for AI systems in our homes, is worth a healthy dose of fear and loathing. "We are Google. We don't need to fake demos [of our fake human voice]" is precisely why Google shouldn't be dictating the terms of AI standards around ethical concerns and communication disclosures. This is about more than hair appointment bookings.
shanghaiaway 8y ago
Google is far from the best search engine so you would be completely wrong. You're awful at search in Chinese and Russian. A complete joke even.