7 ms·

Not only were these calls not faked, the dogfooders were required to go out and honor their reservations. Internally, the criticism is brutal, because we want

Not only were these calls not faked, the dogfooders were required to go out and honor their reservations. Internally, the criticism is brutal, because we want free-form, general, conversation abilities, and we don't consider the demo to be perfect. But fake ? IMO, if the team wanted to fake a demo, they could had done that years ago when the project started. But we are Google. We don't fake demos because we don't have to. [edit: To add to what I said: If you think that a team at Google could fake something at this scale and have the face of the company back it at our most high-profile event of the year, just think of the aftermath internally. The code is available for all of us to study. The design docs are there for us to read. There were thousands of engineers that at least peeked at the codebase even on the same day of the demo.]

robg 8y ago
Then why not release or discuss the basic details? The locations need not be identified publicly to confirm how it all went down.
- utopcell 8y ago
  Not sure why not or if that even is the case. I am curious myself and I will try to find out.
- utopcell 8y ago
  I see that you are a neuroscientist. I am curious to read your take on Duplex and the assistant.
your-nanny 8y ago
Substantiation please
- utopcell 8y ago
  on what ?
skylark 8y ago
I understand that place of employment is a big part of one's identity, but remember that you're a single Googler, not speaking on behalf of 50,000 of us. You should not be using the word "we" the way you are - it's in poor taste.
- utopcell 8y ago
  I disagree with you. The company has identity. Would I had misrepresented you if I had said that we are the best search engine in the world ? I tried to give a balanced viewpoint so that I don't project more than what has been accomplished, but I feel personally offended when I read we are faking demos, and I instinctively desire to defend to the best of my abilities and without revealing non-disclosed information. I'm looking past your ``poor taste'' editorialism and I apologize if you feel that I offended you or singled you, or a part of the company, out.
  - your-nanny 8y ago
    If you were personally involved then put your name on it and state in what capacity
    - utopcell 8y ago
      That's kind of aggressive. I was not / am not either directly or indirectly involved with this work.
      - your-nanny 8y ago
        You spoke as if you were.
  - takeitto 8y ago
    It is just not a good idea to authenticate yourself as a Googler in these sorts of discussions. If there is doubt in the media about a tech from Google, Google's PR department is more than capable to handle that in due time. I think part of this guideline applies, and following it should avoid disclosure, embarrassment, or being forced to speak on the defensive of an entire company (not a job that most developers are automatically good at). > You probably know that our policy is to be extremely careful about disclosing confidential proprietary information. Consistent with that, you should also ensure your outside communications (including online and social media posts) do not disclose confidential proprietary information or represent (or otherwise give the impression) that you are speaking on behalf of Google unless you’re authorized to do so by the company. The same applies to communications with the press. Finally, check with your manager and Corporate Communications before accepting any public speaking engagement on behalf of the company. In general, before making any external communication or disclosure, you should consult our Employee Communications Policy and our Communications and Disclosure Policy. While a compiler may block you from writing faulty code, the media will just take your faults, and then present them as truths coming from upper management.
curiousDog 8y ago
No offense, but your reply sounds like you’re part of some sort of cult. Also doesn’t Google have like 80k employees now? :)
- utopcell 8y ago
  none taken.
bnj 8y ago
From my perspective it seems unfortunate that google has mishandled these questions to the extent that we’re seeing stories saying the demo was fake. Perhaps the goal is to generate a narrative that the technology is so astonishing that everyone said it was fake.
- utopcell 8y ago
  Was the demo that amazing though ? I feel it was full of tiny imperfections. (Not to be a nihilist, it was a big step forward for sure.) Anecdotally, I've been told that there were cases were the human would react by saying "no, you are not a robot, you are human!" when they were told that the caller was a bot, but I haven't been able to verify this.
  - TheDong 8y ago
    > not to be a nihilist You mean pessimist? Or was that not a typo?
    - utopcell 8y ago
      What I meant is that I don't want to trivialize the work done
  - bloak 8y ago
    The demo was not amazing. Take the the original Eliza/Doctor program. Take the "Hello, this is Lenny!" program/recordings. Mix those with some basic speech recognition... The software might be good, better than what other teams would have produced, but I can't really tell that from a couple of carefully selected (and edited) recordings.
    - utopcell 8y ago
      Definitely much better than the scripted Eliza, but I agree with you. Let's have Duplex negotiate my comcast plan, then we'll talk about true AI!
ocdtrekkie 8y ago
Think about what Volkswagon did. Companies can, at very high levels, commit incredibly blatant illegal acts on a massive scale, and can successfully cover it up for a significant amount of time. I suspect you'd be surprised what skeletons Google has in their closet. Why do you think Google is so scared to answer journalists' questions, if you are confident in the veracity of the demo?
- utopcell 8y ago
  Would volkswagen be able to do what they did if the software of their controller was open for all of their employees to see ?
  - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    Note the existence of code in a repository (that even, "works") does not mean the demo presented at I/O wasn't staged or heavily edited. Again, if everything is above board here, why isn't Google answering questions? Perhaps pose the question at TGIF? If they have nothing to hide, why risk looking bad by not answering?
    - utopcell 8y ago
      There are a dozen variations of this question already for TGIF.
      - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
        Great to hear. :)
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    Are you capable of looking at the source and determining in your head how it will perform? If so you should be leading this entire effort.
    - utopcell 8y ago
scarface74 8y ago
The Apple Newton also demoed well and that wasn't "faked" either.
- utopcell 8y ago
  True.
iainmerrick 8y ago
I don’t think anyone is suggesting it’s “fake” in the sense of complete vaporware. It’s that the demo gives the impression that it works great already and is nearly ready to launch, but we suspect it may be much less complete and much further off than that. The various suspicious details back that up. It’s not like there’s a conspiracy of silence between yourself and hundreds of other employees; more that hundreds of people all independently have over-inflated faith in the product and all independently cut corners and “cooked” the demo in various small ways. I can easily see that happening in an intense, secretive team, even if every individual’s intentions are basically good.

robg 8y ago

Then why not release or discuss the basic details? The locations need not be identified publicly to confirm how it all went down.

utopcell 8y ago
Not sure why not or if that even is the case. I am curious myself and I will try to find out.
utopcell 8y ago
I see that you are a neuroscientist. I am curious to read your take on Duplex and the assistant.

your-nanny 8y ago

Substantiation please

utopcell 8y ago
on what ?

skylark 8y ago

I understand that place of employment is a big part of one's identity, but remember that you're a single Googler, not speaking on behalf of 50,000 of us. You should not be using the word "we" the way you are - it's in poor taste.

utopcell 8y ago
I disagree with you. The company has identity. Would I had misrepresented you if I had said that we are the best search engine in the world ? I tried to give a balanced viewpoint so that I don't project more than what has been accomplished, but I feel personally offended when I read we are faking demos, and I instinctively desire to defend to the best of my abilities and without revealing non-disclosed information. I'm looking past your ``poor taste'' editorialism and I apologize if you feel that I offended you or singled you, or a part of the company, out.
- your-nanny 8y ago
  If you were personally involved then put your name on it and state in what capacity
  - utopcell 8y ago
    That's kind of aggressive. I was not / am not either directly or indirectly involved with this work.
    - your-nanny 8y ago
      You spoke as if you were.
- takeitto 8y ago
  It is just not a good idea to authenticate yourself as a Googler in these sorts of discussions. If there is doubt in the media about a tech from Google, Google's PR department is more than capable to handle that in due time. I think part of this guideline applies, and following it should avoid disclosure, embarrassment, or being forced to speak on the defensive of an entire company (not a job that most developers are automatically good at). > You probably know that our policy is to be extremely careful about disclosing confidential proprietary information. Consistent with that, you should also ensure your outside communications (including online and social media posts) do not disclose confidential proprietary information or represent (or otherwise give the impression) that you are speaking on behalf of Google unless you’re authorized to do so by the company. The same applies to communications with the press. Finally, check with your manager and Corporate Communications before accepting any public speaking engagement on behalf of the company. In general, before making any external communication or disclosure, you should consult our Employee Communications Policy and our Communications and Disclosure Policy. While a compiler may block you from writing faulty code, the media will just take your faults, and then present them as truths coming from upper management.

curiousDog 8y ago

No offense, but your reply sounds like you’re part of some sort of cult. Also doesn’t Google have like 80k employees now? :)

utopcell 8y ago
none taken.

bnj 8y ago

From my perspective it seems unfortunate that google has mishandled these questions to the extent that we’re seeing stories saying the demo was fake. Perhaps the goal is to generate a narrative that the technology is so astonishing that everyone said it was fake.

utopcell 8y ago
Was the demo that amazing though ? I feel it was full of tiny imperfections. (Not to be a nihilist, it was a big step forward for sure.) Anecdotally, I've been told that there were cases were the human would react by saying "no, you are not a robot, you are human!" when they were told that the caller was a bot, but I haven't been able to verify this.
- TheDong 8y ago
  > not to be a nihilist You mean pessimist? Or was that not a typo?
  - utopcell 8y ago
    What I meant is that I don't want to trivialize the work done
- bloak 8y ago
  The demo was not amazing. Take the the original Eliza/Doctor program. Take the "Hello, this is Lenny!" program/recordings. Mix those with some basic speech recognition... The software might be good, better than what other teams would have produced, but I can't really tell that from a couple of carefully selected (and edited) recordings.
  - utopcell 8y ago
    Definitely much better than the scripted Eliza, but I agree with you. Let's have Duplex negotiate my comcast plan, then we'll talk about true AI!

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

Think about what Volkswagon did. Companies can, at very high levels, commit incredibly blatant illegal acts on a massive scale, and can successfully cover it up for a significant amount of time. I suspect you'd be surprised what skeletons Google has in their closet. Why do you think Google is so scared to answer journalists' questions, if you are confident in the veracity of the demo?

utopcell 8y ago
Would volkswagen be able to do what they did if the software of their controller was open for all of their employees to see ?
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  Note the existence of code in a repository (that even, "works") does not mean the demo presented at I/O wasn't staged or heavily edited. Again, if everything is above board here, why isn't Google answering questions? Perhaps pose the question at TGIF? If they have nothing to hide, why risk looking bad by not answering?
  - utopcell 8y ago
    There are a dozen variations of this question already for TGIF.
    - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
      Great to hear. :)
- jessaustin 8y ago
  Are you capable of looking at the source and determining in your head how it will perform? If so you should be leading this entire effort.
  - utopcell 8y ago

scarface74 8y ago

The Apple Newton also demoed well and that wasn't "faked" either.

utopcell 8y ago
True.

iainmerrick 8y ago

I don’t think anyone is suggesting it’s “fake” in the sense of complete vaporware. It’s that the demo gives the impression that it works great already and is nearly ready to launch, but we suspect it may be much less complete and much further off than that. The various suspicious details back that up. It’s not like there’s a conspiracy of silence between yourself and hundreds of other employees; more that hundreds of people all independently have over-inflated faith in the product and all independently cut corners and “cooked” the demo in various small ways. I can easily see that happening in an intense, secretive team, even if every individual’s intentions are basically good.