4 ms·

From a couple decades of gaming experience, you don't need much more than eyeballs, fingers and a little bit of forearm. I am convinced people who talk about i

by zawerf 8y ago

From a couple decades of gaming experience, you don't need much more than eyeballs, fingers and a little bit of forearm. I am convinced people who talk about immersion in VR have never been addicted to any game. It doesn't take that much to lose yourself inside of one. After the first few minutes both VR and non-VR games are the same once you're fluent with the controls.

madeofpalk 8y ago
> After the first few minutes both VR and non-VR games are the same Again proving the point that VR has no actual use case.
- williamdclt 8y ago
  10 seconds of thinking: new gameplays, training, simulations, non-game immersive experiences, communication, art... I'm not an ayatollah of VR, but without any foundation to support it this is a pedantic and ignorant comment
- tzakrajs 8y ago
  Sorry to break it to you but many games (like first person shooters) currently have no depth perception and would be greatly enhanced by it. Literally every 3D game you play today can and will be enhanced in VR because of this reason.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- eric_h 8y ago
  VR games that allow you to physically move around are immersive in a way that is unprecedented, IMO, even with very simplistic graphics.
- meheleventyone 8y ago
  I don’t think this is true. In a gaming context VR provides more immediacy of immersion, much greater presence and wider accessibility. These factors also make VR a compelling case outside of gaming for all sorts of tasks.
- zawerf 8y ago
  I said they are "the same" only in terms of how your brain can immerse/rewire itself to understand those new controls as if they were artificial limbs. Even with the same level of fluency, some controls are definitely better than others depending on the domain. So VR is definitely not pointless. Motion tracking for your head/arms/feet unlock many applications that are previously hard or impossible (e.g., 3D sculpting using mouse/tablet vs a motion controller). But it's not always better than mouse/keyboard input for let's say typing or shooting a target. Having more irrelevant degrees of freedom makes it harder to master your input controllers, even if you already had a lifetime of practice with it in the real world (e.g., I am okay with doing parkour levels of movement with WASD/Space but won't ever try it with my real limbs even though in theory I know how to climb over a real world fence).
- nyolfen 8y ago
  have you tried a vive?
abritinthebay 8y ago
Feet help. Feet & legs help a lot. FEAR is a game that really underscored this to me - and every game I see it in afterwards just adds evidence for it. Required? No. But adds to immersion a LOT.
- digi_owl 8y ago
  Reminds me of the Jurassic Park PC game where you could look down and check out your character's gender. Given that you had to enter pin codes by setting the hand to pointing mode and move around with the mouse, i wonder how it would translate to a VR experience today.
  - vba 8y ago
    Trespasser yeah there was a bit with a keypad for getting into the Ingen employee village, I spent ages trying to use the pointy finger and a mouse to press the keys on the keypad... I couldn't do it, but there was a break a bit further along the fence/wall. They wrote the code on the wall (upside down) next to the keypad, but I guess they realised it was too cumbersome so they made a break in the wall further along.
Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
> After the first few minutes both VR and non-VR games are the same once you're fluent with the controls. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Take a game as simple as Zombie Training Simulator. Holding your hands up and firing virtual guns is a completely different experience than pointing a mouse and clicking. Physically bending over to pick up a grenade, then throwing it, is far more immersive than pressing the number 5 and holding a mouse button down to prime it, then releasing it to throw. Then there's Ultrawings. Having head tracking, being able to look around by just pivoting your head, makes the flying experience feel so much better, even if the graphics are dated by 10 years in terms of texture and model detail. When I got my Vive and was playing around in The Lab, and one of the experiences puts you on the side of a mountain, I stepped off a cliff edge and I could feel my heart rate increase slightly as my brain was expecting me to fall to my death. The immersion is real. And I have plenty of gaming experience. I've been gaming since I got an NES for Christmas when I was 5 in 1987.
- zajd 8y ago
  > When I got my Vive and was playing around in The Lab, and one of the experiences puts you on the side of a mountain, I stepped off a cliff edge and I could feel my heart rate increase slightly as my brain was expecting me to fall to my death. The immersion is real. Not disputing anything you're saying but I actually have this same experience playing games where you can fall and the player accelerates (particularly if the camera is first person or right behind the player). Just looking at the screen when I jump off a cliff in something like WoW makes my stomach feel like 20lbs of iron while I'm falling. I've kinda learned to enjoy it at this point.
  - ruytlm 8y ago
    I get the same thing, but it only kicks in once the fall is long enough that you know that your character won't survive. What's interesting is that after far too many hours of WoW, that fall distance is so ingrained that I get that feeling at the same point in other games, even if they have a longer 'safe' fall distance.
  - StavrosK 8y ago
Terr_ 8y ago
I think there will be a lot of difficulty with wording and meaning here, because we don't have a consistent terminology for the different kinds and levels of immersion or focus. For example, the distinction between being deeply involved and distracted in a game (which does not require special tools) versus the extent to which the game will trigger automatic bodily reactions. In other words, someone deeply "immersed" in a chess-match isn't quite the same as someone "immersed" in a VRv game so that they fall over at a jump-scare.
georgeecollins 8y ago
I don't want to pick on this person, but imagine if someone said "from a couple of decades of watching movies, I know that all a movie needs is.." Experiencing a medium is very different than developing a medium. And there are a lot of rules that hold true for your subjective experience of a medium that may not be universal rules.
- jobigoud 8y ago
  It's even worse because they are using one medium to infer the needs of another medium. It's more like saying "From a couple of decades of reading science fiction books, I know all a science fiction movie needs".

by zawerf 8y ago

madeofpalk 8y ago

> After the first few minutes both VR and non-VR games are the same Again proving the point that VR has no actual use case.

williamdclt 8y ago
10 seconds of thinking: new gameplays, training, simulations, non-game immersive experiences, communication, art... I'm not an ayatollah of VR, but without any foundation to support it this is a pedantic and ignorant comment
tzakrajs 8y ago
Sorry to break it to you but many games (like first person shooters) currently have no depth perception and would be greatly enhanced by it. Literally every 3D game you play today can and will be enhanced in VR because of this reason.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
eric_h 8y ago
VR games that allow you to physically move around are immersive in a way that is unprecedented, IMO, even with very simplistic graphics.
meheleventyone 8y ago
I don’t think this is true. In a gaming context VR provides more immediacy of immersion, much greater presence and wider accessibility. These factors also make VR a compelling case outside of gaming for all sorts of tasks.
zawerf 8y ago
I said they are "the same" only in terms of how your brain can immerse/rewire itself to understand those new controls as if they were artificial limbs. Even with the same level of fluency, some controls are definitely better than others depending on the domain. So VR is definitely not pointless. Motion tracking for your head/arms/feet unlock many applications that are previously hard or impossible (e.g., 3D sculpting using mouse/tablet vs a motion controller). But it's not always better than mouse/keyboard input for let's say typing or shooting a target. Having more irrelevant degrees of freedom makes it harder to master your input controllers, even if you already had a lifetime of practice with it in the real world (e.g., I am okay with doing parkour levels of movement with WASD/Space but won't ever try it with my real limbs even though in theory I know how to climb over a real world fence).
nyolfen 8y ago
have you tried a vive?

abritinthebay 8y ago

Feet help. Feet & legs help a lot. FEAR is a game that really underscored this to me - and every game I see it in afterwards just adds evidence for it. Required? No. But adds to immersion a LOT.

digi_owl 8y ago
Reminds me of the Jurassic Park PC game where you could look down and check out your character's gender. Given that you had to enter pin codes by setting the hand to pointing mode and move around with the mouse, i wonder how it would translate to a VR experience today.
- vba 8y ago
  Trespasser yeah there was a bit with a keypad for getting into the Ingen employee village, I spent ages trying to use the pointy finger and a mouse to press the keys on the keypad... I couldn't do it, but there was a break a bit further along the fence/wall. They wrote the code on the wall (upside down) next to the keypad, but I guess they realised it was too cumbersome so they made a break in the wall further along.

Sohcahtoa82 8y ago

> After the first few minutes both VR and non-VR games are the same once you're fluent with the controls. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Take a game as simple as Zombie Training Simulator. Holding your hands up and firing virtual guns is a completely different experience than pointing a mouse and clicking. Physically bending over to pick up a grenade, then throwing it, is far more immersive than pressing the number 5 and holding a mouse button down to prime it, then releasing it to throw. Then there's Ultrawings. Having head tracking, being able to look around by just pivoting your head, makes the flying experience feel so much better, even if the graphics are dated by 10 years in terms of texture and model detail. When I got my Vive and was playing around in The Lab, and one of the experiences puts you on the side of a mountain, I stepped off a cliff edge and I could feel my heart rate increase slightly as my brain was expecting me to fall to my death. The immersion is real. And I have plenty of gaming experience. I've been gaming since I got an NES for Christmas when I was 5 in 1987.

zajd 8y ago
> When I got my Vive and was playing around in The Lab, and one of the experiences puts you on the side of a mountain, I stepped off a cliff edge and I could feel my heart rate increase slightly as my brain was expecting me to fall to my death. The immersion is real. Not disputing anything you're saying but I actually have this same experience playing games where you can fall and the player accelerates (particularly if the camera is first person or right behind the player). Just looking at the screen when I jump off a cliff in something like WoW makes my stomach feel like 20lbs of iron while I'm falling. I've kinda learned to enjoy it at this point.
- ruytlm 8y ago
  I get the same thing, but it only kicks in once the fall is long enough that you know that your character won't survive. What's interesting is that after far too many hours of WoW, that fall distance is so ingrained that I get that feeling at the same point in other games, even if they have a longer 'safe' fall distance.
- StavrosK 8y ago

Terr_ 8y ago

I think there will be a lot of difficulty with wording and meaning here, because we don't have a consistent terminology for the different kinds and levels of immersion or focus. For example, the distinction between being deeply involved and distracted in a game (which does not require special tools) versus the extent to which the game will trigger automatic bodily reactions. In other words, someone deeply "immersed" in a chess-match isn't quite the same as someone "immersed" in a VRv game so that they fall over at a jump-scare.

georgeecollins 8y ago

I don't want to pick on this person, but imagine if someone said "from a couple of decades of watching movies, I know that all a movie needs is.." Experiencing a medium is very different than developing a medium. And there are a lot of rules that hold true for your subjective experience of a medium that may not be universal rules.

jobigoud 8y ago
It's even worse because they are using one medium to infer the needs of another medium. It's more like saying "From a couple of decades of reading science fiction books, I know all a science fiction movie needs".