8 ms·

Is a Dumber Phone a Better Phone?

72 points by artsandsci 8y ago

Clubber 8y ago
Phones are pretty boring now. I'd write another iPhone app if I thought there was any chance in hell I could make a living on it without a million dollar marketing budget. I intentionally went without a cell phone for 2-3 years in the early aughts. That's still an option.
- floren 8y ago
  Not just boring but inflexible and a pain to hack on. I'd really like something more like a PDA with a straightforward scripting language that lets me build primitive GUIs for my own tasks.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - moonbug 8y ago
    If you think that, I've got a Zaurus to sell you.
    - floren 8y ago
      The Linux-based Zaurus with the sliding keyboard was incredibly cool and I still hope to acquire one someday, or even one of the later clamshell models.
lolive 8y ago
The phone is not smart or dumb. The user is.
- iodiniemetra 8y ago
  Considering that the darker edges of "app engagement" are trying to replicate gambling addiction, I hesitate to call users dumb when they don't act in their best self interest.
  - majormajor 8y ago
    Removing the insult of "dumb" users vs "smart" users, gambling addiction is an interesting parallel since it's not something that everyone is equally prone to. Lots of people out there who can play poker, slots, blackjack, whatever, and not damage their life as a result. So I'll keep my ability to pick and choose how "smart" my phone is. I think there's room for people to advertise that no, you don't lose much if you turn off notifications for Facebook or whatever, but I don't want Apple to change anything.
  - pishpash 8y ago
    Actually most of the pressure has been social, i.e. peer pressure. "Why aren't you using this app? How can I reach you?" etc. Just have to say no and stick to your own plan.
    - Analemma_ 8y ago
      It's not that simple though. Those people aren't pressuring you into doing drugs, they just want to be in touch – hardly a crime. Just saying "no" without providing some kind of credible alternative can make you a hermit, and not everyone is OK with that.
      - pishpash 8y ago
        If you don't want to be bothered you don't want to be bothered. Also it's not like you're off the grid. You have more structured (and meaningful) communication on non-immediate devices, when you want it. People who care will reach you no matter.
- Spearchucker 8y ago
  I just moved to Android this week, after 9 years on Windows Phone. Android is making me feel very, very stupid indeed.
  - newbie912 8y ago
    Still on Windows Phone. Their inability to create a 3rd mobile ecosystem gives me all the smart features I want without the cost of apple or the dark patterns of android. Not that they didn't try... I know it won't last forever, but I'll enjoy it while I can.
  - coding123 8y ago
    For not switching sooner? Just curious :/
    - Spearchucker 8y ago
      Because nothing comes close to the simplicity and utility that was Windows Phone 8. 10 mostly brought Windows on par with iOS and Android functionally, whilst mostly retaining the simplicity and utility of 8. Add their (used to be) industry-leading cameras and there's an insanely compelling reason to not switch, if you're OK not getting and then having all teh appz. I've played with Android off and on for ages. My girlfriend has always had iPhones, so I've always had a pretty good view of where both operating systems were at. Neither were compelling, but after my 950XL broke it was time. And while I know how terrible Android is for an 8th go at the same OS, I'm blown away at the low quality bar Google has managed to get the world to accept. It's like Symbian all over again, but this time with touch screens.
alchemism 8y ago
I've just abandoned using a smartphone in favor of a $20 dumb Alcatel phone that can only do three things: calls, alarms, and an FM radio. It doesn't even vibrate. I offloaded every other functional use into my tablet, in this case an iPad Pro. The phone battery lasts for days on standby; I can drain my tablet battery without concern. I can leave the tablet at home if I want to stay light or if I want to stay focused on my activity. I've been doing this for two weeks now, and I most likely will not change back.
- dman 8y ago
  What do you do for navigation? (Thats literally the only feature keeping me with a smart phone right now).
  - rubidium 8y ago
    Not OP, but can answer. What everyone used to do.
    - Clubber 8y ago
      Drive around lost, unwilling to ask for directions?
    - ctrl-j 8y ago
      Get lost and have to stop/call for directions? Abandoning modern technology doesn't seem like the better alternative in this case.
      - SamReidHughes 8y ago
        Spend a few minutes looking at a map before the trip?
        gjs278 8y ago
        road closed. detours. insane levels of traffic you didn't anticipate. have fun.
bungie4 8y ago
When my Nexus 5 dies, I plan on going back to my old Sony-Ericsson feature phone. Just before I retired it I put in a bigger battery. I can fit 3 of them in any pocket I care to choose. It ran 2 weeks on Standby before giving up the ghost. As for functionality. I'm old. Voice/Text/Camera. I've gone for years and years without having a data plan. I typically xfer about 10 texts a month and I might get 1 or two voice calls. Which leads to my next point; I even managed to get rid of my cell plan. I ported my number to my employers plan, he covers it all. I've got unlimited everything on the corporate account. So I save about $500/yr. Do you think I'm gonna invest double that in a new phone? Pfft. Different strokes for different folks, but I wouldn't miss it at all.
- hawski 8y ago
  I find it a bit peculiar of you to even entertain a thought of buying a $1000 device when, as you said, a feature phone can easily serve you. Because you can easily buy a $200 (or cheaper) smartphone that would serve you nice with addition of standard extras of camera and navigation. Of course if you don't care about those, more power to you. I personally start to think that once my phone will break, that maybe I'll buy one of those 4G feature-ish phones with KaiOS like the new banana Nokia and a netbook or a smallest Chromebook. But I have small hope in Libre 5 project.
- dkersten 8y ago
  In 2014, my phone got cut off[1] and I went without connectivity for about 6 months (I was poor, doing a startup right after a previous failed startup, maybe not the smartest circumstances). The phone was basically a wifi device during that time. I could have got a prepay SIM easily enough, but, oddly, I found being unreachable weirdly liberating. Yes, it was awkward that I had to plan ahead by organising when and where to meet people, checking messages (and maps) on wifi and so forth, but knowing that once I stepped outside, that I would be completely disconnected, was actually a great feeling. I knew that while I travelled to the office, nobody would bother me, I knew when I was out shopping, nobody would bother me. It was my time, disconnected from work, from friends/family/random people, from news that I really didn’t need to read... Nowadays, I have an iphone which I use for whatsapp/telegram/signal, email, idle browsing when I’m not at home, very very very rarely a phone call. I think when this phone eventually dies, I’ll replace it with a cheap emergency-only phone, basically, like when I didn’t have a phone except that family can reach me in emergency. I have an iPad for when I do need to access everything else but am not at home or in work. Although, I don’t bring it everywhere. [1] it was a bill phone in the name of my back-then-newly-deceased startup, I had tried to change it to my name, the account manager and other people said yes no problem and I went home waiting for a bill, which never came, then a few months later they disconnected me and wanted more money than the phone or the contract were worth to get it reconnected. I decided its not worth it.
sandov 8y ago
For those who want their phone to respect them, while still maintaining smart functionality, I recommend LineageOS, it's a distribution of android without all the google's proprietary crap.
- wffurr 8y ago
  That doesn't actually change anything about the smartphone being a distraction machine. All the same apps, social networks, constant notifications, etc are still there. The fundamentals have nothing to do with "Google's proprietary crap" and everything to do with being an internet enabled distraction machine, which is true for all modern smartphone OSes.
  - sandov 8y ago
    I could say that open source apps — like the ones in f-droid — don't present the same amount of dark patterns that closed source proprietary apps do. But I agree, getting rid of google's proprietary apps doesn't necessarily mean get rid of this attention/dopamine seeking world we find ourselves in. However, I think a great part of how uncomfortable it feels to know that there's a smart phone in your pocket is knowing that it's spying on you, and getting rid of google's crap means that your phone doesn't spy on you, at least not by default.
    - wffurr 8y ago
      A great part of how uncomfortable it is for some people, perhaps, but not the author of the original piece.
      - sandov 8y ago
        Yeah. I went off on a tangent.
ocdtrekkie 8y ago
I have strongly considered this. I'm on a Windows Mobile device right now, and as long as security updates keep coming monthly, I'll stay here, but eventually I am going to need a new solution. Android is an unacceptable security risk, and I am not super fond of Apple or their limits. I was considering switching wholly to an LTE-enabled Windows tablet (I have a Surface, but I've been eyeing a Latitude) and then just getting a dumbphone for phone calls and texts. As a Windows Mobile user, I've actually found not having the latest of every app available on my phone kind of refreshing. Other people seem annoyed I can't join them on the latest app, but it's a perfect excuse not to download said app.
- ender341341 8y ago
  Can I ask what tablet you'd be looking at? Perhaps one of the windows laptop/tablets hybrids? Besides those I'm not sure what other tablets besides Android/iOS you'd migrate to.
  - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    I've been eyeing the Latitude 7285, though Dell opted not to refresh it's form factor in the latest product line refresh, so I'm a little worried about if they'll keep the design. It's a detachable 2-in-1 like the Surface Book, though it's magnetic instead of the Book's slightly overengineered mechanized connector. It's also a lot cheaper than the Book for what you get, far easier to disassemble and service, and has built-in LTE available. I currently have a Surface Pro 4, and while I'm relatively fond of it in general, the lack of LTE on this model irritates me (newer ones now can get it), and the biggest issue is that the soft keyboard/kickstand design isn't sufficiently lap-usable.
phil248 8y ago
The article uses the word "phone" about 40 times. Based on my own usage patterns, I don't even have a phone. I have a portable computer. I happen to use it to make phone calls a few times every week. I use my desktop to make video calls a few times a month, but I don't call that a phone. We all know a smartphone is a computer, and I'm not trying to be pedantic about the words we use, but I think our insistence that these devices are "phones" is skewing the conversation. We keep complaining about our phones taking up too much of our time, or distracting us, or manipulating us. None of our phones are doing any of those things. But it turns out that having an internet-enabled computer in your pocket at all times can be very distracting. Are we really surprised?
- ericsoderstrom 8y ago
  I think the 'mobile phone' form factor is the import point here. When I use a desktop or laptop computer, it's at least somewhat more intentional. But pulling out your phone is something you can do anywhere. So the ways in which it changes how your attention works are probably different.
- apricot 8y ago
  You object to calling them "phones" because they're not often used as phones, yet you want to call them "computers". What exactly do you compute with them? We should all be honest and call them "trackers" or "distractors".
  - jotm 8y ago
    Rarely use the phone, often use it to check emails, reply to customers, create shipping orders, manage bank accounts and credit cards, view Reddit and Slacker News. Yeah, you're right. I wish the Android hosts file would fucking block hotspot traffic, as well.
    - mverwijs 8y ago
      It does on my Android. This is not standard (on a rooted device, with AdAway installed)?
softwarefounder 8y ago
Biggest thing for me keeping a smart phone is the hi-res camera ability. I'm not carrying a separate camera around Second would be Spotify, and Podcasts.
- tjr225 8y ago
  I often think about ditching my smartphone. There are a few things that a smartphone puts in your pocket that really make our lives better: nice camera/maps/gps/calling/texting/email/music and podcast streaming Really, the negatives of having a computer in your pocket can be summed up by: gaming/transactional purchases/social media/news media None of those things inherently bad, but they do tend to be addictive. So, maybe we need phones without app stores? A closed off phone with the apps already chosen for it? Where would we draw the line on what gets included on the phone? Would there even really be a market for this kind of smartphone? KaiOS is the only thing that comes close...but it still has an App Store to my knowledge. It probably makes most sense to just delete the addictive apps off of your phone and move on with your life.
- sk1pper 8y ago
  I agree with those, and to add some more: GPS/Maps. Uber and Lyft. Mobile concert and airline tickets are pretty nice to have too. (I don't have a printer anymore.)
usuallymatt 8y ago
This might sound ignorant but I really don't get it. I realised a smart phone was eating up my time so I weened myself off a lot of social media and uninstalled a bunch of apps and haven't looked back. I use Signal and Whatsapp to talk to a few friends, listen to music and read the news. Thats about it.
megaman22 8y ago
Why do people hold up the NY Times as such a great newspaper? There's been like 8 stories from them on here today, and it's the same repeated drivel they trot out every two or three weeks, on the same topics, and the same low-energy arguments. My flag button is wearing out.
- jonknee 8y ago
  The NYT isn't a tech focused newspaper so the types of stories you see here are not representative of what gives them such a glowing reputation. This is an article out of their weekly magazine, it's not supposed to be hard news.
- soared 8y ago
  There is probably an argument somewhere that a lack of real news is actually good news - there isn't a major crisis or surprising events to report on.
- WhompingWindows 8y ago
  Do you care to elaborate on how specifically they are not great, how they make drivel? Yours is a low-energy argument in itself, no specifics, just negativity.
- jadedhacker 8y ago
  The NYT's audience model is to make white collar slightly liberal managerial class and workers that aspire to the managerial class feel smart. These are the people that decide what a "glowing reputation" is, hence NYT gets one. They then take this reputation they built up and pivot it into foreign policy propaganda, often based on official lies. Of course, NYT also employs actual and good reporters. However, to a certain degree, they are swimming against the stream and their prestige enhances the prestige of the institution. Just look at how James Risen's stories on Stellar Wind were killed by calls from the White House.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  >Why do people hold up the NY Times as such a great newspaper? Because it's been in business for 167 years, and in that time has changed the course of history and our understanding of the world around us multiple times. What have you done today?
setquk 8y ago
I’ve got my last smartphone. I’ll use it until it dies or Apple abandons it. I’ve come to the conclusion I’d rather spend the money on a hobby instead. Im also getting really fucking annoyed at how much stuff is broken for the amount of money I spent too.
prolikewhoa 8y ago
I went 2 weeks without a phone, gps, & online capabilities away from home due to breaking my old Moto X Pure and not having enough money to buy a phone. It was a great experience and now I'm trying to shift everything over to a dumb phone or even just a hotspot. I didn't need GPS, I just looked up where to go before I left home or work and caught busses/trains that run every 10-15 minutes. If I absolutely needed online access quick I would stand outside of a starbucks or another restaurant/store I knew had WiFi and use my tablet or laptop. I purchased a $25 original Zune for off the grid FM and music. I learned quickly how to find & create alternatives to my phone and those 2 weeks were some of the best of my life. I really noticed how our population always has it's head down with a total addiction to our phones. I felt isolated at Reddit group meeting where everyone would take 5 minutes to just check their notifications and everyone would have their heads down while I was just sitting there watching everyone and eating.
blueseasky 8y ago
I bought my first smartphone a couple of months ago - always preferred small cheap dumb phones. They did fine for calling and texting, which was all I wanted. But the world changed on me! I noticed that over time people were sending me longer and longer texts, and it was becoming difficult to communicate with thumb-button texting. If things reverted to how they should be (anything over 5 words should be an email or a call, please) I would happily go back to a dumb phone.
- mrweasel 8y ago
  It's not only the communication part of it. Increasingly there's a tendency towards an "app first" thinking, where the primary thinking is that something could just be a app on our phones. How this thing is suppose to work for people without smartphone is an afterthought. I do have a smartphone, but I strongly dislike the "Just download our app"... are you really sure you need an app?
ken 8y ago
This is a nearly perfect PR hit. Controversial question in the title, about a product category nearly everyone uses, with the product name in the first sentence, for an indie-funded startup, challenging Apple and Google and social media, published in the NYTimes in the middle of the week. Short of an endorsement from Barack Obama, I don't know how this could have been any better for them. Well done.
- striking 8y ago
  We all live in pg's submarine: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
samwalrus 8y ago
I now only use a huawei watch 2 with LTE as my only phone. I do not pair it with a smart phone. It allows me to use google maps, call an uber and see my upcoming appointments by syncing with google. But I can't check my email, facebook or the news, or other websites. This means it is not distracting, but I have the really useful bits from a smart phone. The only problem is battery life, and the fact that sometimes it needs to talk to a synced device (I use my zte projector -the os thinks its a phone)
- alistairSH 8y ago
  How does that work for cellular plans? Are you in the US? In the US, most carriers won't enable a portable without a linked phone. And you pay an extra monthly fee for the portable ($15-$20, I think).
  - samwalrus 8y ago
    I am in the uk, I just have a normal sim in the watch which I pay £10 a month for.
    - alistairSH 8y ago
      Sometimes I hate the US. ;) We pay somewhere on the order of $40/month for a smartphone plan. And if we add a watch, that's another $10-$20/month. No option to use just a wearable.
- germinalphrase 8y ago
  Moving toward a watch/headphones combo would be an attractive phone alternative to me. I would need to really sit down and weigh out the benefits/loses compared to keeping a phone vs going whole hog and disconnecting completely though.
alistairSH 8y ago
$400? Ouch. Cost aside, I can see the benefit for consumers who are prone to "social media addiction." Or children, where a slightly-smart phone has some benefits to a 100% dumb phone and many benefits over an actual smart phone. I'm trying to wean myself off most social media. Removing the FB app from all but one device (and removing favorites/bookmarks from all browsers) was great.
BlackDeath3 8y ago
I really love all of the things that I can do with my smartphone these days that I'd never have been able to do with an older device (trying to even browse the Internet on a phone that I owned as recently as five years ago was painful), but I do miss a certain amount of reliability and hardiness of the older devices. Maybe nostalgia plays in a bit here, but I think that the move away from embedded device to general-purpose computer brought with it a lot of the downsides of the latter, along with the upsides. As nice as it is to be able to watch an HD video stream on my pocket-sized computer on a stretch of rural highway halfway from nowhere, I don't always trust my phone to be able to, like, dial 911 when it really counts, and that's a little scary.
cglouch 8y ago
I'm still using my "dumb phone" from 2010. I like it cause it has a physical keyboard, a long battery life, and I can drop it without worrying about breaking the screen. Plus I don't have to worry about the privacy issues that come from apps collecting data. Honestly the only feature I feel like I'm missing out on is GPS. But I've actually found that not having GPS improves my sense of direction, since I force myself to actually learn the map of my surroundings instead of just always relying on the phone.
- John_KZ 8y ago
  The two things I've missed without a smartphone is maps and the ability to find phone numbers and addresses of businesses on the fly. Other than that, there's no substantial reason to carry a smartphone. It's funny how much R&D was used up to build what essentially is a digital phone book.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    I, on the other hand, don't use it to find phone numbers and addresses of businesses, but use it all the time to download and listen to podcasts. Each person might only have a couple of important uses, that doesn't mean the total set is small.
mentos 8y ago
I would love to see Apple create an iPod with a 10Tb SSD and e-ink display pre-loaded with virtually every song from iTunes. The biggest issue is that it would just be a matter of time before someone cracked the music library encryption.. Would a solution where the device uniquely encrypts every song for the user's account and requires a cellular network to retrieve a per-song key work?
combatentropy 8y ago
People would be better off if they turned off the notifications. Even better would be if notifications were at first off, rather than on. Your phone should ring for calls and beep for text messages, and that's about it. Well, it should buzz if you set an alarm. But it should not interrupt you for an email or post on Facebook. Each app you install has all notifications on at first too. I think it would be healthier for all to be off. On first launch, the new app pops up a screen with checkboxes for each kind of notice, with all unchecked. You have to put a check in each one yourself. Other than that, the only problem I have is that the average screen is too big. The right balance is about 4". I like having all these things in one device: map, flashlight, camera, calculator, walkman, encyclopedia, newspaper. Then again I am not tempted to open it while driving.
- nradov 8y ago
  Why is an email less important than a text message? Large screens are great. You can see more without scrolling.
  - combatentropy 8y ago
    It's not less important. It's less urgent.
    - nradov 8y ago
      Why is it less urgent?
John_KZ 8y ago
I'm a bit pissed because the article doesn't really discuss what they promise to discuss.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
FRex 8y ago
The Light Phone 2 features are very poor[0]. Any dumb mobile phone from mid 2000s has those that are guaranteed in [1], they also don't run a modified Android but a bespoke locked down OS, cost less (Light Phone 2 is available for $300 as preorder on IndieGoGo and MSRP seems to be $400), have a physical keyboard, some games, colorful display, email, etc. There are even some not so bad smart phones that cost less than $200 or $300. I'd also expect things like calculator, GPS, unit and currency converters, weather, dictionary, directions, maps, etc. to definitely be in since they don't fight for attention and are pure utility tools that one only uses when absolutely needed, not to procrastinate. I also own an old 8 GB black Creative Zen Style 300 media player[2] from like 2010 or 2011 that is like 7x3x1 cm, cost me like 180-190 PLN (22% or 23% of that is VAT) or so at the time and it decimates Light Phone 2 with regards to almost all non-phone non-online features. I'd consider myself as audience for a featureful utilitarian dumb phone but not for something like Light Phone. I wish there was an ARM flip phone (I love these as long as the hinge is good and the plastic thick), with physical keyboard (I love them when they're good), dual SIM, 1 or 2 GB of RAM, few GB of storage, SD card, low res software rendered displays (main one and one on the back when flip phone is closed) that you could code yourself against almost bare metal in pure C, calling some built in APIs when you want to make a phone call, use data transfer, access storage, etc. to truly own and personalize every aspect of it. [0] - https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/light-phone-2-design#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/light-phone-2-design#/ [1] - https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1519788149/fbeaeuv7zuuuncg9nq4e.jpg https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/... [2] - https://imgur.com/a/QdMdHxN https://imgur.com/a/QdMdHxN
- perl4ever 8y ago
  I had a decent Motorola smart phone that was well under $100, and did everything I could want. I replaced it with a far more expensive Pixel XL, mainly because of the nice camera, display, and CPU. But all the basic functionality was on the cheap phone.
sunstone 8y ago
All I really want is a feature phone, long battery life, water resistant, end-to-end encrypted texting, onboard voice mail and hotspot capable. Is this too much to ask?
- sunstone 8y ago
  No upvotes so I guess this is a market of one :D
lupinglade 8y ago
Might be a better phone. But is a phone useful?
jtjuslin 8y ago
Hi! Does anybody find it easier to concentrate to calling with old phone? Still many things work with calling and hopefully will work on future. It is a sort of doing mode for me, not chatting. This goes to psychology and I am an engineer. Put so many many distractions to face on phone before getting to calling? Distractions can be and are at least for me very hard to resist. People are different. I need to turn off distractions, I cannot resist.
rauhl 8y ago
I don’t necessarily want a dumb phone, but I’d like a simpler phone. I’d like navigation (which is the entire reason I got a smartphone in the first place), a Web browser & Signal (or an equivalently-secure text- & video-chat app), calling & texting. Maybe that Jelly phone would be sufficient?

72 points by artsandsci 8y ago

Phones are pretty boring now. I'd write another iPhone app if I thought there was any chance in hell I could make a living on it without a million dollar marketing budget. I intentionally went without a cell phone for 2-3 years in the early aughts. That's still an option.

floren 8y ago
Not just boring but inflexible and a pain to hack on. I'd really like something more like a PDA with a straightforward scripting language that lets me build primitive GUIs for my own tasks.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- moonbug 8y ago
  If you think that, I've got a Zaurus to sell you.
  - floren 8y ago
    The Linux-based Zaurus with the sliding keyboard was incredibly cool and I still hope to acquire one someday, or even one of the later clamshell models.

lolive 8y ago

The phone is not smart or dumb. The user is.

iodiniemetra 8y ago
Considering that the darker edges of "app engagement" are trying to replicate gambling addiction, I hesitate to call users dumb when they don't act in their best self interest.
- majormajor 8y ago
  Removing the insult of "dumb" users vs "smart" users, gambling addiction is an interesting parallel since it's not something that everyone is equally prone to. Lots of people out there who can play poker, slots, blackjack, whatever, and not damage their life as a result. So I'll keep my ability to pick and choose how "smart" my phone is. I think there's room for people to advertise that no, you don't lose much if you turn off notifications for Facebook or whatever, but I don't want Apple to change anything.
- pishpash 8y ago
  Actually most of the pressure has been social, i.e. peer pressure. "Why aren't you using this app? How can I reach you?" etc. Just have to say no and stick to your own plan.
  - Analemma_ 8y ago
    It's not that simple though. Those people aren't pressuring you into doing drugs, they just want to be in touch – hardly a crime. Just saying "no" without providing some kind of credible alternative can make you a hermit, and not everyone is OK with that.
    - pishpash 8y ago
      If you don't want to be bothered you don't want to be bothered. Also it's not like you're off the grid. You have more structured (and meaningful) communication on non-immediate devices, when you want it. People who care will reach you no matter.
Spearchucker 8y ago
I just moved to Android this week, after 9 years on Windows Phone. Android is making me feel very, very stupid indeed.
- newbie912 8y ago
  Still on Windows Phone. Their inability to create a 3rd mobile ecosystem gives me all the smart features I want without the cost of apple or the dark patterns of android. Not that they didn't try... I know it won't last forever, but I'll enjoy it while I can.
- coding123 8y ago
  For not switching sooner? Just curious :/
  - Spearchucker 8y ago
    Because nothing comes close to the simplicity and utility that was Windows Phone 8. 10 mostly brought Windows on par with iOS and Android functionally, whilst mostly retaining the simplicity and utility of 8. Add their (used to be) industry-leading cameras and there's an insanely compelling reason to not switch, if you're OK not getting and then having all teh appz. I've played with Android off and on for ages. My girlfriend has always had iPhones, so I've always had a pretty good view of where both operating systems were at. Neither were compelling, but after my 950XL broke it was time. And while I know how terrible Android is for an 8th go at the same OS, I'm blown away at the low quality bar Google has managed to get the world to accept. It's like Symbian all over again, but this time with touch screens.

alchemism 8y ago

I've just abandoned using a smartphone in favor of a $20 dumb Alcatel phone that can only do three things: calls, alarms, and an FM radio. It doesn't even vibrate. I offloaded every other functional use into my tablet, in this case an iPad Pro. The phone battery lasts for days on standby; I can drain my tablet battery without concern. I can leave the tablet at home if I want to stay light or if I want to stay focused on my activity. I've been doing this for two weeks now, and I most likely will not change back.

dman 8y ago
What do you do for navigation? (Thats literally the only feature keeping me with a smart phone right now).
- rubidium 8y ago
  Not OP, but can answer. What everyone used to do.
  - Clubber 8y ago
    Drive around lost, unwilling to ask for directions?
  - ctrl-j 8y ago
    Get lost and have to stop/call for directions? Abandoning modern technology doesn't seem like the better alternative in this case.
    - SamReidHughes 8y ago
      Spend a few minutes looking at a map before the trip?
      - gjs278 8y ago
        road closed. detours. insane levels of traffic you didn't anticipate. have fun.

bungie4 8y ago

When my Nexus 5 dies, I plan on going back to my old Sony-Ericsson feature phone. Just before I retired it I put in a bigger battery. I can fit 3 of them in any pocket I care to choose. It ran 2 weeks on Standby before giving up the ghost. As for functionality. I'm old. Voice/Text/Camera. I've gone for years and years without having a data plan. I typically xfer about 10 texts a month and I might get 1 or two voice calls. Which leads to my next point; I even managed to get rid of my cell plan. I ported my number to my employers plan, he covers it all. I've got unlimited everything on the corporate account. So I save about $500/yr. Do you think I'm gonna invest double that in a new phone? Pfft. Different strokes for different folks, but I wouldn't miss it at all.

hawski 8y ago
I find it a bit peculiar of you to even entertain a thought of buying a $1000 device when, as you said, a feature phone can easily serve you. Because you can easily buy a $200 (or cheaper) smartphone that would serve you nice with addition of standard extras of camera and navigation. Of course if you don't care about those, more power to you. I personally start to think that once my phone will break, that maybe I'll buy one of those 4G feature-ish phones with KaiOS like the new banana Nokia and a netbook or a smallest Chromebook. But I have small hope in Libre 5 project.
dkersten 8y ago
In 2014, my phone got cut off[1] and I went without connectivity for about 6 months (I was poor, doing a startup right after a previous failed startup, maybe not the smartest circumstances). The phone was basically a wifi device during that time. I could have got a prepay SIM easily enough, but, oddly, I found being unreachable weirdly liberating. Yes, it was awkward that I had to plan ahead by organising when and where to meet people, checking messages (and maps) on wifi and so forth, but knowing that once I stepped outside, that I would be completely disconnected, was actually a great feeling. I knew that while I travelled to the office, nobody would bother me, I knew when I was out shopping, nobody would bother me. It was my time, disconnected from work, from friends/family/random people, from news that I really didn’t need to read... Nowadays, I have an iphone which I use for whatsapp/telegram/signal, email, idle browsing when I’m not at home, very very very rarely a phone call. I think when this phone eventually dies, I’ll replace it with a cheap emergency-only phone, basically, like when I didn’t have a phone except that family can reach me in emergency. I have an iPad for when I do need to access everything else but am not at home or in work. Although, I don’t bring it everywhere. [1] it was a bill phone in the name of my back-then-newly-deceased startup, I had tried to change it to my name, the account manager and other people said yes no problem and I went home waiting for a bill, which never came, then a few months later they disconnected me and wanted more money than the phone or the contract were worth to get it reconnected. I decided its not worth it.

sandov 8y ago

For those who want their phone to respect them, while still maintaining smart functionality, I recommend LineageOS, it's a distribution of android without all the google's proprietary crap.

wffurr 8y ago
That doesn't actually change anything about the smartphone being a distraction machine. All the same apps, social networks, constant notifications, etc are still there. The fundamentals have nothing to do with "Google's proprietary crap" and everything to do with being an internet enabled distraction machine, which is true for all modern smartphone OSes.
- sandov 8y ago
  I could say that open source apps — like the ones in f-droid — don't present the same amount of dark patterns that closed source proprietary apps do. But I agree, getting rid of google's proprietary apps doesn't necessarily mean get rid of this attention/dopamine seeking world we find ourselves in. However, I think a great part of how uncomfortable it feels to know that there's a smart phone in your pocket is knowing that it's spying on you, and getting rid of google's crap means that your phone doesn't spy on you, at least not by default.
  - wffurr 8y ago
    A great part of how uncomfortable it is for some people, perhaps, but not the author of the original piece.
    - sandov 8y ago
      Yeah. I went off on a tangent.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

I have strongly considered this. I'm on a Windows Mobile device right now, and as long as security updates keep coming monthly, I'll stay here, but eventually I am going to need a new solution. Android is an unacceptable security risk, and I am not super fond of Apple or their limits. I was considering switching wholly to an LTE-enabled Windows tablet (I have a Surface, but I've been eyeing a Latitude) and then just getting a dumbphone for phone calls and texts. As a Windows Mobile user, I've actually found not having the latest of every app available on my phone kind of refreshing. Other people seem annoyed I can't join them on the latest app, but it's a perfect excuse not to download said app.

ender341341 8y ago
Can I ask what tablet you'd be looking at? Perhaps one of the windows laptop/tablets hybrids? Besides those I'm not sure what other tablets besides Android/iOS you'd migrate to.
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  I've been eyeing the Latitude 7285, though Dell opted not to refresh it's form factor in the latest product line refresh, so I'm a little worried about if they'll keep the design. It's a detachable 2-in-1 like the Surface Book, though it's magnetic instead of the Book's slightly overengineered mechanized connector. It's also a lot cheaper than the Book for what you get, far easier to disassemble and service, and has built-in LTE available. I currently have a Surface Pro 4, and while I'm relatively fond of it in general, the lack of LTE on this model irritates me (newer ones now can get it), and the biggest issue is that the soft keyboard/kickstand design isn't sufficiently lap-usable.

phil248 8y ago

The article uses the word "phone" about 40 times. Based on my own usage patterns, I don't even have a phone. I have a portable computer. I happen to use it to make phone calls a few times every week. I use my desktop to make video calls a few times a month, but I don't call that a phone. We all know a smartphone is a computer, and I'm not trying to be pedantic about the words we use, but I think our insistence that these devices are "phones" is skewing the conversation. We keep complaining about our phones taking up too much of our time, or distracting us, or manipulating us. None of our phones are doing any of those things. But it turns out that having an internet-enabled computer in your pocket at all times can be very distracting. Are we really surprised?

ericsoderstrom 8y ago
I think the 'mobile phone' form factor is the import point here. When I use a desktop or laptop computer, it's at least somewhat more intentional. But pulling out your phone is something you can do anywhere. So the ways in which it changes how your attention works are probably different.
apricot 8y ago
You object to calling them "phones" because they're not often used as phones, yet you want to call them "computers". What exactly do you compute with them? We should all be honest and call them "trackers" or "distractors".
- jotm 8y ago
  Rarely use the phone, often use it to check emails, reply to customers, create shipping orders, manage bank accounts and credit cards, view Reddit and Slacker News. Yeah, you're right. I wish the Android hosts file would fucking block hotspot traffic, as well.
  - mverwijs 8y ago
    It does on my Android. This is not standard (on a rooted device, with AdAway installed)?

softwarefounder 8y ago

Biggest thing for me keeping a smart phone is the hi-res camera ability. I'm not carrying a separate camera around Second would be Spotify, and Podcasts.

tjr225 8y ago
I often think about ditching my smartphone. There are a few things that a smartphone puts in your pocket that really make our lives better: nice camera/maps/gps/calling/texting/email/music and podcast streaming Really, the negatives of having a computer in your pocket can be summed up by: gaming/transactional purchases/social media/news media None of those things inherently bad, but they do tend to be addictive. So, maybe we need phones without app stores? A closed off phone with the apps already chosen for it? Where would we draw the line on what gets included on the phone? Would there even really be a market for this kind of smartphone? KaiOS is the only thing that comes close...but it still has an App Store to my knowledge. It probably makes most sense to just delete the addictive apps off of your phone and move on with your life.
sk1pper 8y ago
I agree with those, and to add some more: GPS/Maps. Uber and Lyft. Mobile concert and airline tickets are pretty nice to have too. (I don't have a printer anymore.)

usuallymatt 8y ago

This might sound ignorant but I really don't get it. I realised a smart phone was eating up my time so I weened myself off a lot of social media and uninstalled a bunch of apps and haven't looked back. I use Signal and Whatsapp to talk to a few friends, listen to music and read the news. Thats about it.

megaman22 8y ago

Why do people hold up the NY Times as such a great newspaper? There's been like 8 stories from them on here today, and it's the same repeated drivel they trot out every two or three weeks, on the same topics, and the same low-energy arguments. My flag button is wearing out.

jonknee 8y ago
The NYT isn't a tech focused newspaper so the types of stories you see here are not representative of what gives them such a glowing reputation. This is an article out of their weekly magazine, it's not supposed to be hard news.
soared 8y ago
There is probably an argument somewhere that a lack of real news is actually good news - there isn't a major crisis or surprising events to report on.
WhompingWindows 8y ago
Do you care to elaborate on how specifically they are not great, how they make drivel? Yours is a low-energy argument in itself, no specifics, just negativity.
jadedhacker 8y ago
The NYT's audience model is to make white collar slightly liberal managerial class and workers that aspire to the managerial class feel smart. These are the people that decide what a "glowing reputation" is, hence NYT gets one. They then take this reputation they built up and pivot it into foreign policy propaganda, often based on official lies. Of course, NYT also employs actual and good reporters. However, to a certain degree, they are swimming against the stream and their prestige enhances the prestige of the institution. Just look at how James Risen's stories on Stellar Wind were killed by calls from the White House.
reaperducer 8y ago
>Why do people hold up the NY Times as such a great newspaper? Because it's been in business for 167 years, and in that time has changed the course of history and our understanding of the world around us multiple times. What have you done today?

setquk 8y ago

I’ve got my last smartphone. I’ll use it until it dies or Apple abandons it. I’ve come to the conclusion I’d rather spend the money on a hobby instead. Im also getting really fucking annoyed at how much stuff is broken for the amount of money I spent too.

prolikewhoa 8y ago

I went 2 weeks without a phone, gps, & online capabilities away from home due to breaking my old Moto X Pure and not having enough money to buy a phone. It was a great experience and now I'm trying to shift everything over to a dumb phone or even just a hotspot. I didn't need GPS, I just looked up where to go before I left home or work and caught busses/trains that run every 10-15 minutes. If I absolutely needed online access quick I would stand outside of a starbucks or another restaurant/store I knew had WiFi and use my tablet or laptop. I purchased a $25 original Zune for off the grid FM and music. I learned quickly how to find & create alternatives to my phone and those 2 weeks were some of the best of my life. I really noticed how our population always has it's head down with a total addiction to our phones. I felt isolated at Reddit group meeting where everyone would take 5 minutes to just check their notifications and everyone would have their heads down while I was just sitting there watching everyone and eating.

blueseasky 8y ago

I bought my first smartphone a couple of months ago - always preferred small cheap dumb phones. They did fine for calling and texting, which was all I wanted. But the world changed on me! I noticed that over time people were sending me longer and longer texts, and it was becoming difficult to communicate with thumb-button texting. If things reverted to how they should be (anything over 5 words should be an email or a call, please) I would happily go back to a dumb phone.

mrweasel 8y ago
It's not only the communication part of it. Increasingly there's a tendency towards an "app first" thinking, where the primary thinking is that something could just be a app on our phones. How this thing is suppose to work for people without smartphone is an afterthought. I do have a smartphone, but I strongly dislike the "Just download our app"... are you really sure you need an app?

ken 8y ago

This is a nearly perfect PR hit. Controversial question in the title, about a product category nearly everyone uses, with the product name in the first sentence, for an indie-funded startup, challenging Apple and Google and social media, published in the NYTimes in the middle of the week. Short of an endorsement from Barack Obama, I don't know how this could have been any better for them. Well done.

striking 8y ago
We all live in pg's submarine: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html

samwalrus 8y ago

I now only use a huawei watch 2 with LTE as my only phone. I do not pair it with a smart phone. It allows me to use google maps, call an uber and see my upcoming appointments by syncing with google. But I can't check my email, facebook or the news, or other websites. This means it is not distracting, but I have the really useful bits from a smart phone. The only problem is battery life, and the fact that sometimes it needs to talk to a synced device (I use my zte projector -the os thinks its a phone)

alistairSH 8y ago
How does that work for cellular plans? Are you in the US? In the US, most carriers won't enable a portable without a linked phone. And you pay an extra monthly fee for the portable ($15-$20, I think).
- samwalrus 8y ago
  I am in the uk, I just have a normal sim in the watch which I pay £10 a month for.
  - alistairSH 8y ago
    Sometimes I hate the US. ;) We pay somewhere on the order of $40/month for a smartphone plan. And if we add a watch, that's another $10-$20/month. No option to use just a wearable.
germinalphrase 8y ago
Moving toward a watch/headphones combo would be an attractive phone alternative to me. I would need to really sit down and weigh out the benefits/loses compared to keeping a phone vs going whole hog and disconnecting completely though.

alistairSH 8y ago

$400? Ouch. Cost aside, I can see the benefit for consumers who are prone to "social media addiction." Or children, where a slightly-smart phone has some benefits to a 100% dumb phone and many benefits over an actual smart phone. I'm trying to wean myself off most social media. Removing the FB app from all but one device (and removing favorites/bookmarks from all browsers) was great.

BlackDeath3 8y ago

I really love all of the things that I can do with my smartphone these days that I'd never have been able to do with an older device (trying to even browse the Internet on a phone that I owned as recently as five years ago was painful), but I do miss a certain amount of reliability and hardiness of the older devices. Maybe nostalgia plays in a bit here, but I think that the move away from embedded device to general-purpose computer brought with it a lot of the downsides of the latter, along with the upsides. As nice as it is to be able to watch an HD video stream on my pocket-sized computer on a stretch of rural highway halfway from nowhere, I don't always trust my phone to be able to, like, dial 911 when it really counts, and that's a little scary.

cglouch 8y ago

I'm still using my "dumb phone" from 2010. I like it cause it has a physical keyboard, a long battery life, and I can drop it without worrying about breaking the screen. Plus I don't have to worry about the privacy issues that come from apps collecting data. Honestly the only feature I feel like I'm missing out on is GPS. But I've actually found that not having GPS improves my sense of direction, since I force myself to actually learn the map of my surroundings instead of just always relying on the phone.

John_KZ 8y ago
The two things I've missed without a smartphone is maps and the ability to find phone numbers and addresses of businesses on the fly. Other than that, there's no substantial reason to carry a smartphone. It's funny how much R&D was used up to build what essentially is a digital phone book.
- icebraining 8y ago
  I, on the other hand, don't use it to find phone numbers and addresses of businesses, but use it all the time to download and listen to podcasts. Each person might only have a couple of important uses, that doesn't mean the total set is small.

mentos 8y ago

I would love to see Apple create an iPod with a 10Tb SSD and e-ink display pre-loaded with virtually every song from iTunes. The biggest issue is that it would just be a matter of time before someone cracked the music library encryption.. Would a solution where the device uniquely encrypts every song for the user's account and requires a cellular network to retrieve a per-song key work?

combatentropy 8y ago

People would be better off if they turned off the notifications. Even better would be if notifications were at first off, rather than on. Your phone should ring for calls and beep for text messages, and that's about it. Well, it should buzz if you set an alarm. But it should not interrupt you for an email or post on Facebook. Each app you install has all notifications on at first too. I think it would be healthier for all to be off. On first launch, the new app pops up a screen with checkboxes for each kind of notice, with all unchecked. You have to put a check in each one yourself. Other than that, the only problem I have is that the average screen is too big. The right balance is about 4". I like having all these things in one device: map, flashlight, camera, calculator, walkman, encyclopedia, newspaper. Then again I am not tempted to open it while driving.

nradov 8y ago
Why is an email less important than a text message? Large screens are great. You can see more without scrolling.
- combatentropy 8y ago
  It's not less important. It's less urgent.
  - nradov 8y ago
    Why is it less urgent?

John_KZ 8y ago

I'm a bit pissed because the article doesn't really discuss what they promise to discuss.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

FRex 8y ago

The Light Phone 2 features are very poor[0]. Any dumb mobile phone from mid 2000s has those that are guaranteed in [1], they also don't run a modified Android but a bespoke locked down OS, cost less (Light Phone 2 is available for $300 as preorder on IndieGoGo and MSRP seems to be $400), have a physical keyboard, some games, colorful display, email, etc. There are even some not so bad smart phones that cost less than $200 or $300. I'd also expect things like calculator, GPS, unit and currency converters, weather, dictionary, directions, maps, etc. to definitely be in since they don't fight for attention and are pure utility tools that one only uses when absolutely needed, not to procrastinate. I also own an old 8 GB black Creative Zen Style 300 media player[2] from like 2010 or 2011 that is like 7x3x1 cm, cost me like 180-190 PLN (22% or 23% of that is VAT) or so at the time and it decimates Light Phone 2 with regards to almost all non-phone non-online features. I'd consider myself as audience for a featureful utilitarian dumb phone but not for something like Light Phone. I wish there was an ARM flip phone (I love these as long as the hinge is good and the plastic thick), with physical keyboard (I love them when they're good), dual SIM, 1 or 2 GB of RAM, few GB of storage, SD card, low res software rendered displays (main one and one on the back when flip phone is closed) that you could code yourself against almost bare metal in pure C, calling some built in APIs when you want to make a phone call, use data transfer, access storage, etc. to truly own and personalize every aspect of it. [0] - https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/light-phone-2-design#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/light-phone-2-design#/ [1] - https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1519788149/fbeaeuv7zuuuncg9nq4e.jpg https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/... [2] - https://imgur.com/a/QdMdHxN https://imgur.com/a/QdMdHxN

perl4ever 8y ago
I had a decent Motorola smart phone that was well under $100, and did everything I could want. I replaced it with a far more expensive Pixel XL, mainly because of the nice camera, display, and CPU. But all the basic functionality was on the cheap phone.

sunstone 8y ago

All I really want is a feature phone, long battery life, water resistant, end-to-end encrypted texting, onboard voice mail and hotspot capable. Is this too much to ask?

sunstone 8y ago
No upvotes so I guess this is a market of one :D

lupinglade 8y ago

Might be a better phone. But is a phone useful?

jtjuslin 8y ago

Hi! Does anybody find it easier to concentrate to calling with old phone? Still many things work with calling and hopefully will work on future. It is a sort of doing mode for me, not chatting. This goes to psychology and I am an engineer. Put so many many distractions to face on phone before getting to calling? Distractions can be and are at least for me very hard to resist. People are different. I need to turn off distractions, I cannot resist.

rauhl 8y ago

I don’t necessarily want a dumb phone, but I’d like a simpler phone. I’d like navigation (which is the entire reason I got a smartphone in the first place), a Web browser & Signal (or an equivalently-secure text- & video-chat app), calling & texting. Maybe that Jelly phone would be sufficient?