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School is a waste of time and resources for the talented these days. You can learn anything you want online by the best people. It's becoming training for sta

School is a waste of time and resources for the talented these days. You can learn anything you want online by the best people. It's becoming training for state-run communism. No choice, only negative reward signals, march at the same speed as the average. Of course if we tell people the truth - your outcome can essentially be predicted by measuring IQ, which stabilizes around age 7. SAT score is essentially a makeshift game-able IQ test, like our interview processes. The whole system is based on falsities. You can't make people smarter. You can only confuse and unforgivably indebt them. Like several of my friends who 'failed out' of engineering. It's so incredibly damaging and places debt and blame on the individual, even 10 years later some of my close friends have not recovered financially or emotionally. It's like if your best friend focused on playing professional basketball, encouraged by peers and parents, and nobody bothered to mention to him that he's 5'1".

mkirklions 8y ago
Failed out of engineering= they didnt care I agree that most education should be learned on the job, but college is a filter to keep the lazy out of jobs that require the dedicated. Engineering was insane because they wanted people that would drop what they are doing to go to mexico with 7 hours notice. The dude that dropped out of engineering school is planning on fishing this weekend, hes not going anywhere his boss asks.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- whataretensors 8y ago
  > Failed out of engineering= they didnt care I don't even know how to respond to this... my friends didn't fail out from a lack of effort. You also don't know this but all of my old friends are Mexican - so you are implicitly saying the reason they didn't succeed is because they are lazy Mexicans. I don't think you intended to take this stance. You likely got tricked with everyone else into believing in social constructionist view that colleges push, everyone is the same unless you can see the differences. Of course they push this because it removes all liability from them for vetting students, and it places blame on failure to the students. Also I did graduate college and found only the math and advanced CS classes useful(3rd year +). Source, to show that these patterns are more than anecdotal: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_coj.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_coj.asp
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    Nah, it had nothing to do with your personal racism toward your friends for being Mexican. If you didnt pass math and engineering, you didnt care enough. Your friends treated college like high school or worse. If you did 100% of the homework, read the chapter before class, studied for tests, you wouldnt be failing out of college. At worst case, the classes are hard enough you get a C or D in a class. But that isnt enough to get kicked out of college. Lets be honest here, if you put those kinda hours into engineering school, you can expect to get As and Bs.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - whataretensors 8y ago
      > Nah, it had nothing to do with your personal racism toward your friends for being Mexican. Dude I'm Mexican. I showed you stats on high dropout rates of other hispanics and you call me racist, meanwhile claiming all of those dropouts are lazy. >If you didnt pass math and engineering, you didnt care enough[...] Lets be honest here, if you put those kinda hours into engineering school, you can expect to get As and Bs More social constructionist falsities that university is based on. It's easy to disprove, assuming you ever met any of the 99.9% of people who aren't good at math.
      - mkirklions 8y ago
        Confirming laziness. Instead of taking responsibility for not studying enough, you blame it on race. Your friends shouldve studied harder. It sounds like you knew what needed to be done.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        whataretensors 8y ago
        With all due respect, you are indoctrinated into a culture of lies meant to confuse you into thinking you aren't special, likely to prevent you from negotiating or escaping. We can't expect everyone to be athletes or bodybuilders. Not everything is a test of will.
- cookiecaper 8y ago
  > I agree that most education should be learned on the job, but college is a filter to keep the lazy out of jobs that require the dedicated. This is the heart of the issue, and I'm not sure you realized you stumbled upon it. First, you acknowledge the only way to "fail out" is to "not care". This itself shows that college doesn't prove capability or learning or anything objective. It only shows that you have to do the right kind of little monkey-dance for your professors, so they'll be satisfied that you're subjugated, and then they'll pass you. More to the point, college was designed to filter out "challenging" individuals (for several definitions of "challenging", most of which are irrelevant for modern work), not incompetent ones. [And small caveat: today, college mainly exists not really to filter, but just to put the nation's youth in indentured servitude]. Anyone who thinks you're filtering for competence when you look at degrees, look no further than this thread. You're filtering for someone who is mainstream and complacent; you're filtering for someone who won't question, let alone challenge, the groupthink. Don't you think it's a big waste to require several years of time and several tens of thousands of dollars in debt just to determine whether or not your candidates are "too lazy to finish a degree"? And as someone who's been blessed to enjoy a successful career (up to this point) without submitting to the subjugation of so-called "higher education", I can say that it's not really a good indicator of laziness. Laziness is not caring that you zapped 4 years of your existence away at 15% efficiency so that when you apply for a desk job at BigCo, they won't say "Sorry, you're obviously qualified, but if we hire someone without a college degree, it will mess up our H1B sponsorships that were partially justified by requiring Americans with college degrees." It takes a lot more legwork to suss out the places that don't have a giant stake up their butt. Self-teaching is hard, but very rewarding, and at the pace that software moves, you should be looking for skill in this as a fundamental quality. It's hard to blame people for going to school these days, with the amount of social pressure around it, but if they seemed to enjoy being herded around too much, and certainly if they consider said herding as a necessary rite of passage before one can entrusted not to drop everything and go to Mexico, it's a big negative in my book.
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    >You're filtering for someone who is mainstream and complacent; you're filtering for someone who won't question, let alone challenge, the groupthink. Weird sentence in this big post, I felt it was out of place. I never thought this was a thing in both college and industry. Everywhere Ive been encouraged you to challenge everything. The goal is to be correct by any means necessary. (Engineering school, I cant speak for other degrees)
jhawk28 8y ago
You are missing the cultural implications of college. In our society, college has been setup as the "growing up" period where parents can pay some place who will provide food, clothing, and knowledge. The "kids" are pseudo on their own and can become independent.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- whataretensors 8y ago
  This is the cultural implication of the elite. The cultural implication on the young poor is to indebt them while telling half of them they are failures. Meanwhile the smartest of the poor are strip-mined from their communities and turned into indentured wage slaves. Nice culture.

mkirklions 8y ago

Failed out of engineering= they didnt care I agree that most education should be learned on the job, but college is a filter to keep the lazy out of jobs that require the dedicated. Engineering was insane because they wanted people that would drop what they are doing to go to mexico with 7 hours notice. The dude that dropped out of engineering school is planning on fishing this weekend, hes not going anywhere his boss asks.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
whataretensors 8y ago
> Failed out of engineering= they didnt care I don't even know how to respond to this... my friends didn't fail out from a lack of effort. You also don't know this but all of my old friends are Mexican - so you are implicitly saying the reason they didn't succeed is because they are lazy Mexicans. I don't think you intended to take this stance. You likely got tricked with everyone else into believing in social constructionist view that colleges push, everyone is the same unless you can see the differences. Of course they push this because it removes all liability from them for vetting students, and it places blame on failure to the students. Also I did graduate college and found only the math and advanced CS classes useful(3rd year +). Source, to show that these patterns are more than anecdotal: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_coj.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_coj.asp
- mkirklions 8y ago
  Nah, it had nothing to do with your personal racism toward your friends for being Mexican. If you didnt pass math and engineering, you didnt care enough. Your friends treated college like high school or worse. If you did 100% of the homework, read the chapter before class, studied for tests, you wouldnt be failing out of college. At worst case, the classes are hard enough you get a C or D in a class. But that isnt enough to get kicked out of college. Lets be honest here, if you put those kinda hours into engineering school, you can expect to get As and Bs.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - whataretensors 8y ago
    > Nah, it had nothing to do with your personal racism toward your friends for being Mexican. Dude I'm Mexican. I showed you stats on high dropout rates of other hispanics and you call me racist, meanwhile claiming all of those dropouts are lazy. >If you didnt pass math and engineering, you didnt care enough[...] Lets be honest here, if you put those kinda hours into engineering school, you can expect to get As and Bs More social constructionist falsities that university is based on. It's easy to disprove, assuming you ever met any of the 99.9% of people who aren't good at math.
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      Confirming laziness. Instead of taking responsibility for not studying enough, you blame it on race. Your friends shouldve studied harder. It sounds like you knew what needed to be done.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - whataretensors 8y ago
        With all due respect, you are indoctrinated into a culture of lies meant to confuse you into thinking you aren't special, likely to prevent you from negotiating or escaping. We can't expect everyone to be athletes or bodybuilders. Not everything is a test of will.
cookiecaper 8y ago
> I agree that most education should be learned on the job, but college is a filter to keep the lazy out of jobs that require the dedicated. This is the heart of the issue, and I'm not sure you realized you stumbled upon it. First, you acknowledge the only way to "fail out" is to "not care". This itself shows that college doesn't prove capability or learning or anything objective. It only shows that you have to do the right kind of little monkey-dance for your professors, so they'll be satisfied that you're subjugated, and then they'll pass you. More to the point, college was designed to filter out "challenging" individuals (for several definitions of "challenging", most of which are irrelevant for modern work), not incompetent ones. [And small caveat: today, college mainly exists not really to filter, but just to put the nation's youth in indentured servitude]. Anyone who thinks you're filtering for competence when you look at degrees, look no further than this thread. You're filtering for someone who is mainstream and complacent; you're filtering for someone who won't question, let alone challenge, the groupthink. Don't you think it's a big waste to require several years of time and several tens of thousands of dollars in debt just to determine whether or not your candidates are "too lazy to finish a degree"? And as someone who's been blessed to enjoy a successful career (up to this point) without submitting to the subjugation of so-called "higher education", I can say that it's not really a good indicator of laziness. Laziness is not caring that you zapped 4 years of your existence away at 15% efficiency so that when you apply for a desk job at BigCo, they won't say "Sorry, you're obviously qualified, but if we hire someone without a college degree, it will mess up our H1B sponsorships that were partially justified by requiring Americans with college degrees." It takes a lot more legwork to suss out the places that don't have a giant stake up their butt. Self-teaching is hard, but very rewarding, and at the pace that software moves, you should be looking for skill in this as a fundamental quality. It's hard to blame people for going to school these days, with the amount of social pressure around it, but if they seemed to enjoy being herded around too much, and certainly if they consider said herding as a necessary rite of passage before one can entrusted not to drop everything and go to Mexico, it's a big negative in my book.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  >You're filtering for someone who is mainstream and complacent; you're filtering for someone who won't question, let alone challenge, the groupthink. Weird sentence in this big post, I felt it was out of place. I never thought this was a thing in both college and industry. Everywhere Ive been encouraged you to challenge everything. The goal is to be correct by any means necessary. (Engineering school, I cant speak for other degrees)

jhawk28 8y ago

You are missing the cultural implications of college. In our society, college has been setup as the "growing up" period where parents can pay some place who will provide food, clothing, and knowledge. The "kids" are pseudo on their own and can become independent.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
whataretensors 8y ago
This is the cultural implication of the elite. The cultural implication on the young poor is to indebt them while telling half of them they are failures. Meanwhile the smartest of the poor are strip-mined from their communities and turned into indentured wage slaves. Nice culture.