8 ms·

it's already a shame that the answer isn't 100% yes, 100% of the time. back in the 70s, tuition was payable with a summer job and job prospects were decent eno

it's already a shame that the answer isn't 100% yes, 100% of the time. back in the 70s, tuition was payable with a summer job and job prospects were decent enough despite geopolitical and economic headwinds these days, the same problems plague the job market, but every year of college costs 1 year of salary, unless you qualify for stackable forms of financial aid

optimuspaul 8y ago
There are still many colleges that you cost less than a years salary. Other than that nitpick I agree. Economics aside I think that college doesn't actually prepare people for working in the real world. But the only thing that really does that is actually working in the real world.
- jellicle 8y ago
  I think previous commenter is saying every year of full-time college costs you a year of salary, in addition and on top of any tuition or other expenses it may cost you. Few students manage to work full-time and make real progress towards a degree.
  - Bekwnn 8y ago
    Not to mention if they're working fulltime they're forfeiting a large part of the value of the degree. Half or more of the value I got from my degree involved out of class activities.
    - optimuspaul 8y ago
      It all depends on the type of college that you go to. I also think it's funny to suggest that a "large part of the value of the degree" is out of class activities. But if that is true it kind of supports my argument that a degree proves nothing. A degree doesn't reflect those out of class activities.
  - optimuspaul 8y ago
    I get that and I think that with that very narrow definition of college experience that may be true. But I don't think that is the the college experience that the majority is taking part in. I also think it is insulting to suggest that a student who works full-time is not making real progress towards a degree. I worked full-time and made real progress, although I eventually quit because I realized I didn't need a degree. It's is meaningless. The only thing a degree proves is that the person was able to sit through some lectures and doing some rote work. But this is all anecdotal and therefore not really valuable for proving any useful point.
woopwoop 8y ago
If the answer was 100% yes, not enough people would be going to college.
mkirklions 8y ago
People hate when I talk about working fulltime in the factory on the midnight shift and going to school fulltime. I didnt get 'the college experience'. But I didnt have any college debt, I became a hardened adult that didnt cry when plant people got pissed. I dont complain. If something needs to get done, I do it. Graduated in 3 years with my chem engineering degree at age 21. People will always complain about something. "You should pay for a dorm, food, education from top individuals, books, knowledge, all for spending 200 hours in the summer at a clothing store". I did a factory full time midnight shift job, all year, lived off campus + commuted. Ate at home too. This comes at the cost of the 'College Experience"
- nicholas73 8y ago
  And where is that factory now?
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    Still in Romulus Michigan
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- madengr 8y ago
  That’s pretty impressive with a BSChE. I worked about 6 hrs/day, but in daytime, and there was downtime in the job for homework.
- dilap 8y ago
  Not saying it's true for you, but everyone I knew at college that was working full-time was in my opinion getting far less out of college than they would have. You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Having to grind insane hours just to get in the game might be workable for the very dedicated and tough, but it's certainly not an optimal experience, and something we should strive to make not necessary.
  - 8y ago
NicoJuicy 8y ago
Not in Europe
deadmetheny 8y ago
>every year of college costs 1 year of salary This is point-blank wrong, unless you're only talking about elite private schools. Most state schools cost around 1-1.5 years of full-time salary, discounting room and board since you have to pay for somewhere to live independently of if you attend university. If your goal is to simply get a degree, you can do it for less than $50k (which is definitely still off compared to the 70s, I agree).
- DamnYuppie 8y ago
  Your argument is only valid if you are assuming that tuition is paid for out of pocket. If you have to finance that $50k, you will most likely end up paying closer to $80k. The 80k assumes a 15 year repayment at current rates, if they can pay more and get it done in 10 years it drops down to under $70k.
  - deadmetheny 8y ago
    The $50k is assuming financing. Nobody realistically pays for college tuition out-of-pocket unless they were lucky and their parents set up a fund for it. Source: myself and literally every single college person I know who attended public universities in the Midwest
    - Eire_Banshee 8y ago
      I paid out of pocket. Just had to do the national guard for 6 years. They paid for like, 90% of it. It was pretty dope.
      - blueseaadmin 8y ago
        Kudos to you for serving. Thank you. More kids should do the same. I did.
      - deadmetheny 8y ago
        Very nice, I forgot about the military covering school as well. Thank you for your service.
sjg007 8y ago
Well what really screwed the pooch was that state governments defunded public universities forcing them to raise tuition. This caused the Feds to step in to provide more loans, which in the end, are effectively a tax on folks going to college. It's basically a variable tax though since you can minimize it and then they offer some relief programs.

optimuspaul 8y ago

There are still many colleges that you cost less than a years salary. Other than that nitpick I agree. Economics aside I think that college doesn't actually prepare people for working in the real world. But the only thing that really does that is actually working in the real world.

jellicle 8y ago
I think previous commenter is saying every year of full-time college costs you a year of salary, in addition and on top of any tuition or other expenses it may cost you. Few students manage to work full-time and make real progress towards a degree.
- Bekwnn 8y ago
  Not to mention if they're working fulltime they're forfeiting a large part of the value of the degree. Half or more of the value I got from my degree involved out of class activities.
  - optimuspaul 8y ago
    It all depends on the type of college that you go to. I also think it's funny to suggest that a "large part of the value of the degree" is out of class activities. But if that is true it kind of supports my argument that a degree proves nothing. A degree doesn't reflect those out of class activities.
- optimuspaul 8y ago
  I get that and I think that with that very narrow definition of college experience that may be true. But I don't think that is the the college experience that the majority is taking part in. I also think it is insulting to suggest that a student who works full-time is not making real progress towards a degree. I worked full-time and made real progress, although I eventually quit because I realized I didn't need a degree. It's is meaningless. The only thing a degree proves is that the person was able to sit through some lectures and doing some rote work. But this is all anecdotal and therefore not really valuable for proving any useful point.

woopwoop 8y ago

If the answer was 100% yes, not enough people would be going to college.

mkirklions 8y ago

People hate when I talk about working fulltime in the factory on the midnight shift and going to school fulltime. I didnt get 'the college experience'. But I didnt have any college debt, I became a hardened adult that didnt cry when plant people got pissed. I dont complain. If something needs to get done, I do it. Graduated in 3 years with my chem engineering degree at age 21. People will always complain about something. "You should pay for a dorm, food, education from top individuals, books, knowledge, all for spending 200 hours in the summer at a clothing store". I did a factory full time midnight shift job, all year, lived off campus + commuted. Ate at home too. This comes at the cost of the 'College Experience"

nicholas73 8y ago
And where is that factory now?
- mkirklions 8y ago
  Still in Romulus Michigan
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
madengr 8y ago
That’s pretty impressive with a BSChE. I worked about 6 hrs/day, but in daytime, and there was downtime in the job for homework.
dilap 8y ago
Not saying it's true for you, but everyone I knew at college that was working full-time was in my opinion getting far less out of college than they would have. You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Having to grind insane hours just to get in the game might be workable for the very dedicated and tough, but it's certainly not an optimal experience, and something we should strive to make not necessary.
- 8y ago

NicoJuicy 8y ago

Not in Europe

deadmetheny 8y ago

>every year of college costs 1 year of salary This is point-blank wrong, unless you're only talking about elite private schools. Most state schools cost around 1-1.5 years of full-time salary, discounting room and board since you have to pay for somewhere to live independently of if you attend university. If your goal is to simply get a degree, you can do it for less than $50k (which is definitely still off compared to the 70s, I agree).

DamnYuppie 8y ago
Your argument is only valid if you are assuming that tuition is paid for out of pocket. If you have to finance that $50k, you will most likely end up paying closer to $80k. The 80k assumes a 15 year repayment at current rates, if they can pay more and get it done in 10 years it drops down to under $70k.
- deadmetheny 8y ago
  The $50k is assuming financing. Nobody realistically pays for college tuition out-of-pocket unless they were lucky and their parents set up a fund for it. Source: myself and literally every single college person I know who attended public universities in the Midwest
  - Eire_Banshee 8y ago
    I paid out of pocket. Just had to do the national guard for 6 years. They paid for like, 90% of it. It was pretty dope.
    - blueseaadmin 8y ago
      Kudos to you for serving. Thank you. More kids should do the same. I did.
    - deadmetheny 8y ago
      Very nice, I forgot about the military covering school as well. Thank you for your service.

sjg007 8y ago

Well what really screwed the pooch was that state governments defunded public universities forcing them to raise tuition. This caused the Feds to step in to provide more loans, which in the end, are effectively a tax on folks going to college. It's basically a variable tax though since you can minimize it and then they offer some relief programs.