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Fun fact: The loadmaster and maintenance workers on Flexport's 747 freighter fly back and forth on the plane 20 days per year, sleeping in the old first class

Fun fact: The loadmaster and maintenance workers on Flexport's 747 freighter fly back and forth on the plane 20 days per year, sleeping in the old first class seats in the upper deck. That is real skin in the game. The plane began service as a passenger plane for Japan Air in the 90s. I better its safer than most modern planes with those guys living up there taking care of her.

hueving 8y ago
>I better its safer than most modern planes with those guys living up there taking care of her. Not likely. Planes don't usually crash from maintenance neglect. We are at a point where it's multiple simultaneous failures caused by something unforseen, not lazy maintenance.
- CaptainZapp 8y ago
  It's called the Swiss Cheese Model and doesn't only apply to aviation accidents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model
  - joshgel 8y ago
    Doctors use this model for evaluating/trying to prevent medical errors as well
    - FabHK 8y ago
      There's an excellent book, The Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande, that explains several transfers from aviation best practices to hospital best practices (primarily checklists and CRM, crew resource management). Captivating read if you're interested in aviation and not dying needlessly in hospital.
      - Steve44 8y ago
        Possibly from the same source but one useful thing I learned was to do with check lists. Rather than ticking a box to say how many scalpels you used, is the tyre pressure OK etc etc you write down the number. The persons doesn't just say yes OK, they write down the pressure. That [generally] ensures they have actually measured it and got a real value.
  - froindt 8y ago
    We use this model in the manufacturing plant I work in. You can cut a small corner every single day and it probably won't matter, until that one time when some other upset condition occurs and suddenly you're seriously injured. An implementation of this has made a huge difference in the overall safety record.
aunty_helen 8y ago
Cargo planes are generally less safe than passenger planes, this is due to factors like the pilots (less money for cargo pilots) and the hardware they're flying (older disused passenger planes being flown cargo). Fun fact: NCR flight 102 had the loadmaster on board, but is probably one of the most spectacular caught on camera crashes of a 747. (It's the one where it looks like it falls out of the sky on take-off) It was also most likely the loadmasters fault. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_102 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_102 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/14/birmingham-ups-crash-sidebar/2654017/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/14/birmin... >"have a somewhat higher accident rate than passenger aircraft,"
- qrbLPHiKpiux 8y ago
  “If you screw up just this much, you’ll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong.” - CDR Tom "Stinger" Jardian, Top Gun
- ethagknight 8y ago
  Re: cargo pilots earning less, is that true? I’m in Memphis, and all the Fedex pilots I know make a ton of money. Most are ex-military. Most of the planes are definitely older (DC-10/MD-11s trijets!) but they are being aggressively phased out for new 777s to save on fuel.
  - sithadmin 8y ago
    My understanding based on what I hear from friends in the industry is that this is definitely not true, especially earlier on in a pilot's career. If one plays their cards right, you can make a good deal more as a 'cargo dog' pilot when you're young, compared to working for a regional or non-major airline, which is where most younger passenger pilots begin their careers. However, the disparity in pay can be more pronounced later on, as senior pilots at the major airlines can in many cases make much more income, or have a much better work-life balance.
    - 8y ago
chatmasta 8y ago
Flexport as in the YC startup? I had no idea they were operating their own planes. I thought they were pure software / logistics. That is some audacious vertical integration!
- kossae 8y ago
  Same here! Here is the article I came across with some further info for reference: https://theloadstar.co.uk/flexport-spreads-wings-deal-wga-gain-air-freight-capacity-needs-pic/ https://theloadstar.co.uk/flexport-spreads-wings-deal-wga-ga...
  - tim333 8y ago
    some pics on their twitter eg https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/974037384508588032 https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/974037384508588032
czep 8y ago
> Flexport's 747 freighter The article literally has nothing to do with Flexport... I wonder why YC companies constantly shilled around here?
- organsnyder 8y ago
  I don't care very much about YC companies, but I do see how YC companies could see disproportionate attention on a YC-operated forum.
- the_economist 8y ago
  That comment was posted by Flexport's CEO!

hueving 8y ago

>I better its safer than most modern planes with those guys living up there taking care of her. Not likely. Planes don't usually crash from maintenance neglect. We are at a point where it's multiple simultaneous failures caused by something unforseen, not lazy maintenance.

CaptainZapp 8y ago
It's called the Swiss Cheese Model and doesn't only apply to aviation accidents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model
- joshgel 8y ago
  Doctors use this model for evaluating/trying to prevent medical errors as well
  - FabHK 8y ago
    There's an excellent book, The Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande, that explains several transfers from aviation best practices to hospital best practices (primarily checklists and CRM, crew resource management). Captivating read if you're interested in aviation and not dying needlessly in hospital.
    - Steve44 8y ago
      Possibly from the same source but one useful thing I learned was to do with check lists. Rather than ticking a box to say how many scalpels you used, is the tyre pressure OK etc etc you write down the number. The persons doesn't just say yes OK, they write down the pressure. That [generally] ensures they have actually measured it and got a real value.
- froindt 8y ago
  We use this model in the manufacturing plant I work in. You can cut a small corner every single day and it probably won't matter, until that one time when some other upset condition occurs and suddenly you're seriously injured. An implementation of this has made a huge difference in the overall safety record.

aunty_helen 8y ago

Cargo planes are generally less safe than passenger planes, this is due to factors like the pilots (less money for cargo pilots) and the hardware they're flying (older disused passenger planes being flown cargo). Fun fact: NCR flight 102 had the loadmaster on board, but is probably one of the most spectacular caught on camera crashes of a 747. (It's the one where it looks like it falls out of the sky on take-off) It was also most likely the loadmasters fault. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_102 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_102 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/14/birmingham-ups-crash-sidebar/2654017/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/14/birmin... >"have a somewhat higher accident rate than passenger aircraft,"

qrbLPHiKpiux 8y ago
“If you screw up just this much, you’ll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong.” - CDR Tom "Stinger" Jardian, Top Gun
ethagknight 8y ago
Re: cargo pilots earning less, is that true? I’m in Memphis, and all the Fedex pilots I know make a ton of money. Most are ex-military. Most of the planes are definitely older (DC-10/MD-11s trijets!) but they are being aggressively phased out for new 777s to save on fuel.
- sithadmin 8y ago
  My understanding based on what I hear from friends in the industry is that this is definitely not true, especially earlier on in a pilot's career. If one plays their cards right, you can make a good deal more as a 'cargo dog' pilot when you're young, compared to working for a regional or non-major airline, which is where most younger passenger pilots begin their careers. However, the disparity in pay can be more pronounced later on, as senior pilots at the major airlines can in many cases make much more income, or have a much better work-life balance.
  - 8y ago

chatmasta 8y ago

Flexport as in the YC startup? I had no idea they were operating their own planes. I thought they were pure software / logistics. That is some audacious vertical integration!

kossae 8y ago
Same here! Here is the article I came across with some further info for reference: https://theloadstar.co.uk/flexport-spreads-wings-deal-wga-gain-air-freight-capacity-needs-pic/ https://theloadstar.co.uk/flexport-spreads-wings-deal-wga-ga...
- tim333 8y ago
  some pics on their twitter eg https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/974037384508588032 https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/974037384508588032

czep 8y ago

> Flexport's 747 freighter The article literally has nothing to do with Flexport... I wonder why YC companies constantly shilled around here?

organsnyder 8y ago
I don't care very much about YC companies, but I do see how YC companies could see disproportionate attention on a YC-operated forum.
the_economist 8y ago
That comment was posted by Flexport's CEO!