6 ms·

> The way [psilocybin is] being used is in a very controlled or guided setting. ... They don't just give you a pill and send you home; you're in a room. You're

> The way [psilocybin is] being used is in a very controlled or guided setting. ... They don't just give you a pill and send you home; you're in a room. You're with two guides, one male, one female. You're lying down on a comfortable couch. You're wearing headphones listening to a really carefully curated playlist of music — instrumental compositions for the most part — and you're wearing eyeshades, all of which is to encourage a very inward journey. Erg, having people trip this way who are already are struggling with depression strikes me as downright dangerous. Bad trips are a real thing, and leaving someone alone with their thoughts, without a lot of sensory input, is a good way to do it. I hope they know what they're doing... It's really much, much better and safer to be outside, in nature.

giarc 8y ago
They aren't left alone. As your quote says "You're with two guides, one male, one female."
- Stratoscope 8y ago
  They could go outside with you, instead of confining you to a room with headphones on.
  - maxander 8y ago
    I suspect the reason that it’s done indoors is that, most places with a high enough density of humans for this practice to be available, the outside is a dangerous place for a tripping patient. Someone driving by blasting a rap album out their window could send a trip in some bad directions.
    - erikpukinskis 8y ago
      Also, it’s a clinical study. They need to control the conditions or it’s not science.
      - cptn_brittish 8y ago
        It wouldn't be science but at the same time those conditions are horrible in order to study the effects of psychedelics. The conditions are almost a sure fire way to make someone have a troubling experience if they were given the doses knowen to be taken in those times and did not have prior experience dealing with the reality altering effects of those substances.
        tpm 8y ago
        Apparently not that horrible, with 25mg of psilocybin: Treatment with psilocybin produced rapid and sustained antidepressant effects. Decreased depressive symptoms were observed in all 19 patients at 1-week post-treatment and 47% met criteria for response at 5 weeks. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13282-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13282-7
      - tgamba 8y ago
        When I was at University of Waterloo in the 80s, I went for a couple of talk therapy sessions with a very nice, empathetic woman employed in the Psych department. After a session, she said, "would you like to see something?" Just adjacent to her office was a "trip room", probably constructed when the building was build in the 70s (?). It was round, completely lined with acid orange fabric, upholstered like a pasha's tent and filled with cushions in every colour imaginable. No doubt it had a superlative quadraphonic sound system installed. It also had a large, smoked glass window, for "observers." Not ideal for mushrooms perhaps but for other things...
stryk 8y ago
Laying around on a couch sounds like a waste of a good shroom buzz. Shrooms are much more fun if you're with a medium-to-large sized group of people who all know and are comfortable around each other, all of whom are on around the same dose. They're so much more of a body buzz and less of a mindfuck than LSD/DMT. Then there's PCP... which is less of a mindfuck and more of a fuckyou.
- empath75 8y ago
  There aren’t many drug experiences more entertaining than a half dozen people on mushrooms trying to have a conversation.
  - komali2 8y ago
    Reminds me of a reddit thread I saved a couple days after they decriminalized weed in Washington: https://i.imgur.com/9HQ2Si7_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium https://i.imgur.com/9HQ2Si7_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f...
    - ThrustVectoring 8y ago
      Note that "Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like" is a copy-pasted text meme.
- ozzmotik 8y ago
  i personally think arylcyclohexamines and really just NMDA antagonists in general have a large amount of untapped therapeutic benefit, especially for individuals suffering from depression otherwise resistant to other forms of treatment. perhaps it's slightly anecdotal but in my experience, a daily to semidaily 150mg dose of memantine combined with cannabis prn as an anxiolytic is pretty much the most effective dosing strategy I have found to control my depression, anxiety, and lapses in attention. however i certainly don't recommend it for others, at least with that high of a memantine dosage because with its insane metabolic half life (60+ hours) it really conpojnds heavily. not to mention a therapeutic dose of memantine for what it's prescribed for (controlling dementia symptoms) is generally like 5-10mg. but I will say if you have the fortitude for it, it's a wonderful experience. you just have to be willing to essentially exist in a 24/7 state of moderate to heavy dissociation and not be too predisposed to panic because ive certainly seen heavy dissociative experiences to be quite anxiogenic for those who don't really get down with that. but I'd certainly suggest regular memantine usage over my old practice of constant high doses of dxm :V
RileyJames 8y ago
Bad trips? Or confronting trips. Meeting your edge, and in time, moving past it. Sure, it’s not great in the moment. But I’ve always felt it rewarding in the long run.
itronitron 8y ago
Yeah, and it sounds like they were taking very large doses, to the point of having visual hallucinations, which isn't really necessary
sal_paradise 8y ago
The podcast goes more in depth. There is preparation before the trip specifically to address any 'bad trips' and the guides are there to calm you down in case that happens. As side note, this reminds me of the episode of Mad Men where Roger takes LSD [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Away_Places_(Mad_Men) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Away_Places_(Mad_Men)
tpm 8y ago
Well, the study took on about 20 people with treatment resistant depression and immediately helped about 80% of them, harming no one, so yes, they know what they are doing. The issue with nature is that you can't control the environment, which is critical in a pilot study when you are trying to legitimize a long forbidden research subject.
monktastic1 8y ago
Having experienced many trips in both settings, I would suggest that neither is really better. Being alone with your own mind can be terrifying, of course, but it can also be much more effective at reaching and healing deep traumas. Perhaps similar to how meditation and socializing have distinct purposes in sober life.

giarc 8y ago

They aren't left alone. As your quote says "You're with two guides, one male, one female."

Stratoscope 8y ago
They could go outside with you, instead of confining you to a room with headphones on.
- maxander 8y ago
  I suspect the reason that it’s done indoors is that, most places with a high enough density of humans for this practice to be available, the outside is a dangerous place for a tripping patient. Someone driving by blasting a rap album out their window could send a trip in some bad directions.
  - erikpukinskis 8y ago
    Also, it’s a clinical study. They need to control the conditions or it’s not science.
    - cptn_brittish 8y ago
      It wouldn't be science but at the same time those conditions are horrible in order to study the effects of psychedelics. The conditions are almost a sure fire way to make someone have a troubling experience if they were given the doses knowen to be taken in those times and did not have prior experience dealing with the reality altering effects of those substances.
      - tpm 8y ago
        Apparently not that horrible, with 25mg of psilocybin: Treatment with psilocybin produced rapid and sustained antidepressant effects. Decreased depressive symptoms were observed in all 19 patients at 1-week post-treatment and 47% met criteria for response at 5 weeks. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13282-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13282-7
    - tgamba 8y ago
      When I was at University of Waterloo in the 80s, I went for a couple of talk therapy sessions with a very nice, empathetic woman employed in the Psych department. After a session, she said, "would you like to see something?" Just adjacent to her office was a "trip room", probably constructed when the building was build in the 70s (?). It was round, completely lined with acid orange fabric, upholstered like a pasha's tent and filled with cushions in every colour imaginable. No doubt it had a superlative quadraphonic sound system installed. It also had a large, smoked glass window, for "observers." Not ideal for mushrooms perhaps but for other things...

stryk 8y ago

Laying around on a couch sounds like a waste of a good shroom buzz. Shrooms are much more fun if you're with a medium-to-large sized group of people who all know and are comfortable around each other, all of whom are on around the same dose. They're so much more of a body buzz and less of a mindfuck than LSD/DMT. Then there's PCP... which is less of a mindfuck and more of a fuckyou.

empath75 8y ago
There aren’t many drug experiences more entertaining than a half dozen people on mushrooms trying to have a conversation.
- komali2 8y ago
  Reminds me of a reddit thread I saved a couple days after they decriminalized weed in Washington: https://i.imgur.com/9HQ2Si7_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium https://i.imgur.com/9HQ2Si7_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f...
  - ThrustVectoring 8y ago
    Note that "Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like" is a copy-pasted text meme.
ozzmotik 8y ago
i personally think arylcyclohexamines and really just NMDA antagonists in general have a large amount of untapped therapeutic benefit, especially for individuals suffering from depression otherwise resistant to other forms of treatment. perhaps it's slightly anecdotal but in my experience, a daily to semidaily 150mg dose of memantine combined with cannabis prn as an anxiolytic is pretty much the most effective dosing strategy I have found to control my depression, anxiety, and lapses in attention. however i certainly don't recommend it for others, at least with that high of a memantine dosage because with its insane metabolic half life (60+ hours) it really conpojnds heavily. not to mention a therapeutic dose of memantine for what it's prescribed for (controlling dementia symptoms) is generally like 5-10mg. but I will say if you have the fortitude for it, it's a wonderful experience. you just have to be willing to essentially exist in a 24/7 state of moderate to heavy dissociation and not be too predisposed to panic because ive certainly seen heavy dissociative experiences to be quite anxiogenic for those who don't really get down with that. but I'd certainly suggest regular memantine usage over my old practice of constant high doses of dxm :V

RileyJames 8y ago

Bad trips? Or confronting trips. Meeting your edge, and in time, moving past it. Sure, it’s not great in the moment. But I’ve always felt it rewarding in the long run.

itronitron 8y ago

Yeah, and it sounds like they were taking very large doses, to the point of having visual hallucinations, which isn't really necessary

sal_paradise 8y ago

The podcast goes more in depth. There is preparation before the trip specifically to address any 'bad trips' and the guides are there to calm you down in case that happens. As side note, this reminds me of the episode of Mad Men where Roger takes LSD [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Away_Places_(Mad_Men) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Away_Places_(Mad_Men)

tpm 8y ago

Well, the study took on about 20 people with treatment resistant depression and immediately helped about 80% of them, harming no one, so yes, they know what they are doing. The issue with nature is that you can't control the environment, which is critical in a pilot study when you are trying to legitimize a long forbidden research subject.

monktastic1 8y ago

Having experienced many trips in both settings, I would suggest that neither is really better. Being alone with your own mind can be terrifying, of course, but it can also be much more effective at reaching and healing deep traumas. Perhaps similar to how meditation and socializing have distinct purposes in sober life.