7 ms·

Islamic civilization was never very curious about the outside world other than militarily. There is a famous story about Galileo's telescopes being sent as a gi

Islamic civilization was never very curious about the outside world other than militarily. There is a famous story about Galileo's telescopes being sent as a gift to a Muslim ruler to observe the planets. They didn't see any point in this but were excited about being able to use them to spot and attack other ships. Islamic culture did preserve some of the old Greek scholarship, but real science didn't get started until after their Golden age was past.

fsloth 8y ago
There were excellent scholars in the early Islamic culture (700 - 1000) before the religious dogmatists started dominating the intellectual sphere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Kindi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Kindi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna Etc. We who've read our history form western sources just aren't generally aware of them because we usually write the names of the most famous ones in latin form (e.g. Avicenna).
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  Was it in Islamic or, was it in Middle-Eastern culture? What particularly about Islam, or the particular individuals faith/religious practice made their science a part of religious development? It's fascinating to see the interplay of science from different geographies - that Al-Kindi started by learning and translating Greek science and then that we primarily know him through others translation of his works to Latin. Al-Kwarizmi is a well known name in the West from the same Persian scientific community (I think he was perhaps head of the House of Wisdom whilst Al-Kindi was there).
  - Cyph0n 8y ago
    It is referred to as Islamic science because: a) Scientists came from a wide variety of backgrounds, but were usually of Muslim faith. For example, the term "Middle East" would not be accurate since many scholars were Persian and West Asian. b) Scholars were typically funded by patrons who were associated with the Muslim empire/caliphate. c) To a lesser extent, many of the prominent scholars first learned Islamic science and philosophy -- typically at a young age -- before delving into the natural sciences.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      It's interesting we don't [in the UK nor in English language sources online] refer to the likes of Kepler as being part of Christian science, despite the characters often being trained priests in one denomination or another [Copernicus, say, was a doctor of canon law], often being funded by Church patrons. There's an interesting divergence in the perceptions; I'm interested in whether that's a modern issue or if it represents something inherent in the mode of the science being performed? Wikipedia mentions scientists who were historically - and are elsewhere - known for their Christian faith, priests and such but without mentioning that they were Christian believers but with scientists who were living in Islamic countries [I don't know the history to know if they, for example were Imams or wrote religious treatise] they're flagged as Muslims. Copernicus/Kepler/Brahe [I didn't check further] aren't claimed to be Christian, Al-Kindi is claimed in the first sentence as a Muslim amongst Muslim scholars, in a Muslim World, etc.. Any input on historic differences, IYO, that lead to these different characterisations?
      - Chris_Jay 8y ago
        Interesting question! My guess is that a part of the difference was actually doctrinal - Christianity is largely a religion for revolutionary times, more concerned with overturning a corrupt order than administering a just one. I believe that despite many of the reformers of the enlightenment coming out of the church system, they were described as revolutionaries against the monarchic system and the church that supported it because that is the sort of person idealized by the Christian religion and embodied by its founder. Islam on the other hand is not a religion concerned with changing the existing order - its founder was not a martyred revolutionary but a successful political entity. Where Christianity advocates separation of church and state, Islam sets forward a system for religious governance. Therefore, while both Christian and Islamic scholars generally got their education in their respective religious traditions, I think Christian scholars were seen as breaking with the past in part because that kind of behavior is celebrated in Christianity, while Islamic scholars were seen as being involved in their political processes because that is celebrated in Islam.
        8y ago
gnulinux 8y ago
This is a very Orientalist view of history, and is factually wrong. Islamic scholars advanced not only in medicine, astronomy and physics but also geography, history, journalism etc... Not only this, but also if you think from Kuhn-ian perspective it would be wrong to expect Islamic science to converge to the same point Western science converged (and if you disagree, I'd like to hear how you argue against Kuhn). So "anything outside of military" is a very wide range not even Westerners were curious of e.g. the whole computational way of thinking was only developed in early 20th centuries even though some really cool algorithms (leasy squares/Gauss/Newton's algorithm, graph theory, sieve of Erathotenes etc...) hinted computation could be fun. Why didn't Western world invent computer science until Turing/Church/Godel? I don't know, but it's certainly not strange Muslims didn't invent that too.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- loggedinmyphone 8y ago
  The West was also not very interested in the rest of the world except to conquer, prior to the development of the modern worldview between Bacon and Newton. This was a singular event that marks the sudden rise of the West in power and knowledge.
Cyph0n 8y ago
There are a number of theories for why science flourished in the Muslim world, but this is not one of them.
jhanschoo 8y ago
This statement seems very ignorant to me. Medieval Islamic developments were manifold. Off the top of my head, the preeminence of Islamic ideas are fossilized in words like algebra, algorithm and alchemy. A cursory visit to Wikipedia reveals a good list of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
- loggedinmyphone 8y ago
  I'm as excited about the achievements of the Islamic Golden Age as the next guy. It certainly helped lay the foundation for the scientific method, just as the achievements of Classical Greeks did. It's just that it was over before the scientific revolution started.

fsloth 8y ago

There were excellent scholars in the early Islamic culture (700 - 1000) before the religious dogmatists started dominating the intellectual sphere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Kindi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Kindi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna Etc. We who've read our history form western sources just aren't generally aware of them because we usually write the names of the most famous ones in latin form (e.g. Avicenna).

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Was it in Islamic or, was it in Middle-Eastern culture? What particularly about Islam, or the particular individuals faith/religious practice made their science a part of religious development? It's fascinating to see the interplay of science from different geographies - that Al-Kindi started by learning and translating Greek science and then that we primarily know him through others translation of his works to Latin. Al-Kwarizmi is a well known name in the West from the same Persian scientific community (I think he was perhaps head of the House of Wisdom whilst Al-Kindi was there).
- Cyph0n 8y ago
  It is referred to as Islamic science because: a) Scientists came from a wide variety of backgrounds, but were usually of Muslim faith. For example, the term "Middle East" would not be accurate since many scholars were Persian and West Asian. b) Scholars were typically funded by patrons who were associated with the Muslim empire/caliphate. c) To a lesser extent, many of the prominent scholars first learned Islamic science and philosophy -- typically at a young age -- before delving into the natural sciences.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    It's interesting we don't [in the UK nor in English language sources online] refer to the likes of Kepler as being part of Christian science, despite the characters often being trained priests in one denomination or another [Copernicus, say, was a doctor of canon law], often being funded by Church patrons. There's an interesting divergence in the perceptions; I'm interested in whether that's a modern issue or if it represents something inherent in the mode of the science being performed? Wikipedia mentions scientists who were historically - and are elsewhere - known for their Christian faith, priests and such but without mentioning that they were Christian believers but with scientists who were living in Islamic countries [I don't know the history to know if they, for example were Imams or wrote religious treatise] they're flagged as Muslims. Copernicus/Kepler/Brahe [I didn't check further] aren't claimed to be Christian, Al-Kindi is claimed in the first sentence as a Muslim amongst Muslim scholars, in a Muslim World, etc.. Any input on historic differences, IYO, that lead to these different characterisations?
    - Chris_Jay 8y ago
      Interesting question! My guess is that a part of the difference was actually doctrinal - Christianity is largely a religion for revolutionary times, more concerned with overturning a corrupt order than administering a just one. I believe that despite many of the reformers of the enlightenment coming out of the church system, they were described as revolutionaries against the monarchic system and the church that supported it because that is the sort of person idealized by the Christian religion and embodied by its founder. Islam on the other hand is not a religion concerned with changing the existing order - its founder was not a martyred revolutionary but a successful political entity. Where Christianity advocates separation of church and state, Islam sets forward a system for religious governance. Therefore, while both Christian and Islamic scholars generally got their education in their respective religious traditions, I think Christian scholars were seen as breaking with the past in part because that kind of behavior is celebrated in Christianity, while Islamic scholars were seen as being involved in their political processes because that is celebrated in Islam.
      - 8y ago

gnulinux 8y ago

This is a very Orientalist view of history, and is factually wrong. Islamic scholars advanced not only in medicine, astronomy and physics but also geography, history, journalism etc... Not only this, but also if you think from Kuhn-ian perspective it would be wrong to expect Islamic science to converge to the same point Western science converged (and if you disagree, I'd like to hear how you argue against Kuhn). So "anything outside of military" is a very wide range not even Westerners were curious of e.g. the whole computational way of thinking was only developed in early 20th centuries even though some really cool algorithms (leasy squares/Gauss/Newton's algorithm, graph theory, sieve of Erathotenes etc...) hinted computation could be fun. Why didn't Western world invent computer science until Turing/Church/Godel? I don't know, but it's certainly not strange Muslims didn't invent that too.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
loggedinmyphone 8y ago
The West was also not very interested in the rest of the world except to conquer, prior to the development of the modern worldview between Bacon and Newton. This was a singular event that marks the sudden rise of the West in power and knowledge.

Cyph0n 8y ago

There are a number of theories for why science flourished in the Muslim world, but this is not one of them.

jhanschoo 8y ago

This statement seems very ignorant to me. Medieval Islamic developments were manifold. Off the top of my head, the preeminence of Islamic ideas are fossilized in words like algebra, algorithm and alchemy. A cursory visit to Wikipedia reveals a good list of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

loggedinmyphone 8y ago
I'm as excited about the achievements of the Islamic Golden Age as the next guy. It certainly helped lay the foundation for the scientific method, just as the achievements of Classical Greeks did. It's just that it was over before the scientific revolution started.