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Introducing Surface Hub 2
- ktpsns 8y agoI love such devices. However, similiar to smartphones they depend so much on the software, and Microsoft is not too known for interoperability. How can my Linux and Mac OS X colleagues participate and contribute in the meetings? Such tools need open platforms and communities which build them. I'm especially concerned because Microsoft stopped the support for a native Linux Skype client.
- Matthias247 8y agoI can't say anything about this new system. But I think in general Microsoft isn't that bad for cross-platform nowadays. On MacOS I have Office, Skype, Onedrive, etc. And I can access my documents on phones via mobile clients. The tools are all weaker than the Windows versions, but I think they mostly get the job done and are getting better over time. Can't comment on pure Linux support, but would understand if it's lacking due to the smaller user-base.
- briffle 8y agoFor Skype for Business meetings they have a chrome plugin now. It requires you to download an MSI to install. Haven't figured out how to do that in Linux.
- ThePadawan 8y agoNote that Microsoft are in the process of deprecating Skype for Business altogether (https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/25/16360072/microsoft-teams-replacing-skype-for-business https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/25/16360072/microsoft-teams-...) in favor of Teams (their Slack-like online tool).
- zaksoup 8y agoMicrosoft definitely has been moving towards a more cross platform software suite. My biggest issue is that Skype is by far the worst video calling platform. Zoom and BlueJeans long since surpassed hangouts, and even hangouts is better than Skype. I saw another hn commenter mention that all of their skype calls begin with 10 minutes of handshaking - "can you hear me? let me restart my computer. hold on my mic isn't being recognized" - and I think 10 minutes is generously low.
- mynameisvlad 8y agoIs that Skype or Skype for Business (which is just a rebranded Lync, which is just a rebranded Office Communicator)? In any case, as the site mentions, the new Hub is exclusively for Teams, which has its own conferencing system.
- zaksoup 8y agoGood question, and I have no idea. The conferencing system in meeting rooms was managed by a facilities team. Probably it was Skype for Business, given that? Now we're all using Zoom and it's much smoother. /anecdote
- mark212 8y agocompletely anecdotal, but I just interviewed a candidate for an open position at my employer yesterday via skype. His laptop in Ohio to our conference room in California. Went off without a hitch (except my colleague couldn't figure out how to hang up -- "It's the big red icon there ... no the red one ... the red one"). Our equipment was a basic PC running Win7 and a HD web cam resting on top of a wall-mounted 70" LCD television.
- pritambaral 8y agoI'd be greatly surprised if there's any Linux support at all. Microsoft supports macOS, iOS, and Android these days not because they care about interoperability, but because Microsoft needs users on these platforms. If Microsoft cared about interop. for the sake of anyone except Microsoft, OOXML wouldn't be crap, and their office suite wouldn't be crippling ODF files on save. Microsoft has a much longer (and quite colourful) history of not-supporting and breaking interop.
- aurailious 8y agoNadella seems to have changed from Balmer's "software on Windows" to the current "software with Windows". I know that their have been making better Android and iOS compatibility. However, I would guess that they would still be aggressive against other desktop OSs.
- awinder 8y agoRe—organizing the windows os under the cloud services division felt like it really spoke to the software with windows vision
- basch 8y agoteams is a web app and the desktop variant is built on top of electron. you can download it for mac https://teams.microsoft.com/downloads https://teams.microsoft.com/downloads or use teams.microsoft.com on linux.
- pharaohgeek 8y agoThat's my big gripe with this. I'm not a huge fan of anything from Microsoft, but these look VERY cool. However, we're a big Mac/iOS shop, so interoperability would be a concern. And, I'm afraid, non-existant.
- meritt 8y agoThe music composition on this video sounds eerily similar to Final Fantasy 7's main theme. These sections specifically: * Surface Hub 2: https://youtu.be/7DbslbKsQSk?t=1m34s https://youtu.be/7DbslbKsQSk?t=1m34s * FF7 Main Theme: https://youtu.be/nPSdaQW97rA?t=58s https://youtu.be/nPSdaQW97rA?t=58s
- yoodenvranx 8y agoI _love_ that Microsoft seems to prefer 3:2 displays over 16:9/16:9 displays! If we get really lucky we might even see 4:3 displays again some day in the future.
- partiallypro 8y ago4:3 displays are too boxy for mobility, I really think 3:2 should be the new standard, especially for tablets, it's just perfect.
- wilsonnb 8y agoI prefer 4:3 for tablets, but I'm glad we can all agree that 16:9 was a mistake. Even 16:10 would have been better as a standard.
- tshannon 8y agoI haven no strong feelings personally one way or the other, so could you enlighten me as to why 16:9 is a mistake, or why 4:3 is preferred?
- wilsonnb 8y ago16:9 doesn't offer enough vertical space compared to the horizontal space required. Basically, it's bad for small screens (like my 12 inch laptop) because you get almost no vertical space. Apple agrees with this and uses 16:10 on their laptops, which is slightly better. At least I think they do. 16:9 flipped the other way, like a smartphone, offers a lot of vertical space and almost no horizontal space. You basically can't have two apps next to each other because there isn't enough horizontal space. Basically, I want to have two things open next to each other on my screen. I can do this on 16:9 screens with a high enough resolution, but 3:2 or 4:3 with the same width offers me more height. Which I want. Less scrolling. I'm sure there are people that prefer 16:9 though. At the end of the day it's personal preference. I hope this rambling makes sense.
- yodon 8y agoAnyone have a guess what it costs to tile 4 of those 4K multi-touch displays like shown in the video? That would make a heck of a desktop.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- extra88 8y agoIndeed. The current 55" 1080p Surface Hub is $10-12K. The image staying still as the screen rotates is gimmicky but being able easily to move and spread content between multiple Surface Hubs could be really useful.
- partiallypro 8y agoI wouldn't say it's gimmicky, I wish actual Windows did this. How Windows handles rotation is a bit sloppy.
- ct0 8y agoAs the old saying goes, if you have to ask, you cant afford it. :( you and me both
- wsinks 8y agoI don't have to ask, and I can't afford it. Taking google results for the surface hub 1: $9,172.99 · Insight $6,499.99 · www.widgetree.comFree shipping, no tax $8,999.00 · Mobile AdvanceFree shipping $10,815.43 · Aztek ComputersFree shipping Average = 8871 Give them 35% premium for the new one (simple numbers guess based on the fact that the new one will cost somewhat more) = 11976 Multiple by 4 $47904 for a 4x display of Surface Hub 2s. Doesn't mean I can afford it. :)
- Zelizz 8y agohttps://blogs.windows.com/devices/2018/05/15/meet-surface-hub-2/ https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2018/05/15/meet-surface-hu... "The new Surface Hub 2 is sleeker, more agile and more affordable to fit any workspace or work style." No info on exactly how much more affordable. Disclaimer: I work at Microsoft (but not on this).
- reacharavindh 8y agoVery creative, and cool, but a part of me cringes thinking of people touching those displays with their greasy fingers...
- gagege 8y agoWhat makes me cringe is the thought of trying to answer the video call which Skype proceeds to drop and you spend 15+ minutes trying to reconnect with the caller which leads to you just using the old fashion conference telephone sitting on the table.
- wlesieutre 8y agoIs business Skype that bad? I gather it was a separate product (Lync) that they later decided to slap a Skype logo on.
- vesak 8y agoYes, it is. They're trying to replace it with Teams, though, which is way better.
- gagege 8y agoLync was nice and actually worked pretty well. Last time I used Skype for business though, it was like they took out all the parts of Lync that worked well and replaced them with the worst parts of (non-business) Skype.
- Semaphor 8y agoLync was always unreliable with many issues. Then they slapped on a few skype interface horrors to make it a truly bad product.
- paulirwin 8y agoWe have had pretty good (albeit not perfect) experience with Skype for Business over the last few years. We use it with Office 365 and the Cloud PBX, so we don't have any PBX/POTS or server hardware in our office, and we haven't had many issues with connectivity, especially in the past year or so. The meetings work very well, the PBX functionality works great, presence is a huge plus across all the Office products, and the ability to federate communications and presence with other businesses has been great for our consulting business. And paired with low-cost Polycom phones on the desk, the hardware/software combination is excellent and the value is truly there. It's not without its flaws, though: IMs in particular often get lost when you have multiple devices (i.e. a message goes to your mobile and you don't see it on the desktop), the mobile apps (especially Android) are pretty horrid, and the future of merging with Teams makes things uncertain (although promising).
- menacingly 8y agoThe thing Microsoft seems to get is that you can keep grinding on these devices even if they aren't smash hits. Eventually people like me start to consider them a viable alternative because we know they aren't going to give up on them like Google.
- Suspect 8y agoZune. Surface RT. Kinect. Windows Phone. Band. Just naming some things that I've personally purchased and Microsoft no longer supports. They are no better than Google at continuing to support their products.
- moron4hire 8y agoThat's about it, though. All companies discontinue products, but Microsoft keeps them around for a lot longer than most.
- rgbrenner 8y agoZune: introduced 2006; discontinued: 2012; support ended 2015 (9 years) Surface RT: introduced: 2012; Discontinued: 2013; Windows support ends 2023 (11 years) Kinect: introduced 2010; discontinued: 2015 for windows; 2017 for xbox; still supported (no date announced AFAICT) Windows phone: introduced: 2010; last release 2015; windows phone os support ended 2017 (7 years) Band: introduced 2014; discontinued 2016; still supported (no date announced AFAICT) They gave up on band and RT pretty quickly... but they still supported those users.. a 2012 laptop will probably be dead by the time Windows RT support ends. Just for comparison.. google is only 20 years old. Android is only 10 years old. Which products of Google's are you thinking of that failed and were supported for a decade? When Google Reader died, users got 3 1/2 months warning. Which Microsoft product got 3 1/2 months warning before ending support? I understand why google has their support policy, and I'm not passing judgement here... but microsoft definitely supports their products longer, and that has a real cost to microsoft, and they deserve some credit for that.
- mhermher 8y ago
- EricLemieux 8y agoWouldn't having the camera at the top of such a large screen (in portrait as demo-ed in the video) exacerbate the lack of eye content in a video call? If it's noticeable on a laptop sized screen I can't imagine how off-putting it would be on this.
- zeusk 8y agoPerhaps they can process the image; We already do it with document scans from off-angle.
- xur17 8y agoWouldn't this require repositioning the person's eyes in the video? Not saying that isn't doable..
- zeusk 8y agoNo, users look at where the other person is on the screen; not at the camera. So reprojection can be done to a known point of view. IIRC, hololens does some of the reprojection magic already.
- monkeynotes 8y agoIt's hurting my brain to think about this. Surely if you aren't looking into the lens then your eyes will not appear as if they are looking at the person since the lens's perspective is the source for the projection on the other side. Like, if I take a picture of myself with a camera and look directly into the lens then my eyes are pointing directly forward. If I now continue looking at that same point but move the camera up on a step-ladder, the image I am going to get would not have my eyes aligning directly into the camera. How do you get around that?
- Kenji 8y agoYes, and there are already AI/Machine learning solutions for this problem. The paper detailing this must be a few years old already.
- strictnein 8y agoMore information on this blogpost here: https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2018/05/15/meet-surface-hub-2/ https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2018/05/15/meet-surface-hu...
- analogmemory 8y agoI love that Microsoft manages to insert a "Clippy" like modal on top of the marketing page while I'm watching the video. I mean at least fix the squished text in that graphic ya'll. https://i.imgur.com/V5iKhi3.jpg https://i.imgur.com/V5iKhi3.jpg
- alexggordon 8y agoI know. I couldn't figure out how to close it too.
- safsexisgoodsex 8y agoI noticed this too and was very disappointed.
- bluthru 8y agoI'm having Apple iSight flashbacks. MS should just embed 4 cameras into the frame.
- ChuckMcM 8y agoI would love a Surface Hub, I tried to buy one and couldn't because they were only available to 'qualified' customers (something an individual apparently never could be). Now with 4K (or 8K!) displays it becomes completely credible to replace a white board with one. And the benefits of the shared whiteboard and presence is really solid when working with someone who isn't local. The software infrastructure investment is immense however. And while I would love to see an open source version of this I doubt such a thing would ever exist. You need a video conferencing component, a drawing/archiving/sharing component, hardware that can accelerate the drawing function to avoid lag, and significant bandwidth to host both video and images being swapped updated in real time.
- mrep 8y agoWhile I agree the benefits of the shared whiteboard sound nice, I much prefer the feel of drawing on a whiteboard over touch screens. Plus, whiteboards are much cheaper.
- rtkwe 8y agoIt's nice until you need to do any remote collaboration with whiteboarding there's not really a good way to allow someone on the phone to interact with people in the room. Even with a camera the remote person has to describe anything they want to add to the whitebaord diagram. I think that's where there's no real substitute for being there in person at the moment in most offices because digital whiteboards have never really caught on.
- Someone1234 8y ago> I tried to buy one and couldn't because they were only available to 'qualified' customers You can order one from CDW right now[0]. They did initially only open them up to Microsoft Partners with a certain level, but that was many years ago now. I will say that a Surface Hub is much more useful when used as part of AD/O365. Since Skype for Business is a major selling point and not really useful to the individual. Using it as a glorified e-whiteboard isn't its strongest feature, it is a fantastic meeting/collaboration tool. [0] https://www.cdw.com/product/Microsoft-Surface-Hub-touch-surface-Core-i5-8-GB-128-GB-LCD-55in/3979032 https://www.cdw.com/product/Microsoft-Surface-Hub-touch-surf...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- sebringj 8y agoThe thing I liked the most was the person view in how it shows things in real life dimensions, seems much more "personable" to communicate across distances for teams, at least from a non-vr way.
- cwyers 8y agoAm I the only one who sees this and wishes Microsoft was still doing something in the phone space?
- superzadeh 8y agoI'm still hoping...
- ThoAppelsin 8y agoYou are not alone. I don't just hope, but more like depend on it. I probably will fall back to an old-style phone if my Lumia 950 dies out. It will be hard for me to get used to the underutilized screen estate iOS and Android offers.
- bargl 8y agoNo you are not. With a docking station and windows phone you could have a really solid portable computer.
- WorldMaker 8y agoI spent some of BUILD trying to nudge rumors out of folks. I wasn't successful, but I tried, because I care and because I was one of the few people left with a 950 in my pocket. Most employees I talked to about it had already fallen into switching to Android, but there were some near tears about it. The only "official" Microsoft answer about it I got (from multiple people, so it sounded like a "Party line" and thus why it felt "official") was that "Microsoft was just too late to the market". A lot of slides still had phone-sized devices on them, though admittedly some of that was probably just graphics reuse from previous years. Fluent Design documents all still reference phone-sized and phablet-sized devices (and even Band-sized devices). I enjoy chasing all the rumors on CShell progress, as that does sound like a key to future mobile support. (The one time I think I got close to a wink/nod sort of thing about it at BUILD was when I responded to that "too late" party line with "Or was it just too early for Windows 10 on mobile? CShell was expected to be developed faster than it has turned out to be, hasn't it?".) I know a lot of people seem to be enchanted with Surface Phone rumors, especially the recent "Courier" folding/multi-screen concepts we've seen from Patent applications. Personally, I've been excited about "HoloPhone" rumors, some of which I believe I started accidentally by connecting obvious dots, and just hear come back to me through the telephone process of rumor mills. Alex Kipman of Kinect/HoloLens is rumored to be the owner of whatever the next mobile/handheld computing device project is, so I certainly expect some Mixed Reality/Holograms fun. Anyway, nothing but rumors and hope, but as someone that's been on the platform forever (my last non-Windows phone/handheld computer was an iPhone 3GS, a million years ago), I want to believe, as crazy as that is getting to sound.
- emehrkay 8y agoThis is beautiful and the video really sells it (if walls aren’t like this in the near future then what is all of this for?). But is this “just” a large screen Windows computer running in kiosk (or whatever) mode? Could I get a classic windows desktop by hitting windows-d?
- coreyw 8y agoThe company I work for has maybe 20+ of the 1st generation version in our office. We even have a few of the 84 inch models. I have to say they are great to work with when you are collaborating with people and need to use a white board, video conference, or just view a web application. I can't stand using one of the few conference rooms here that does not have one anymore.
- sumitgt 8y agoThe portrait mode really looks interesting.
- Paraesthetic 8y agoI shall be buying one of these very soon
- aandrieiev 8y agoCenturies will pass, technology will change, but one will still need someone else to open the next slide: https://youtu.be/7DbslbKsQSk?t=83 https://youtu.be/7DbslbKsQSk?t=83