11 ms·

The more Apple is failing to deliver hardware to the high standards they used to do, the more Hackingtosh's popularity is going to grow.

craftyguy 8y ago
I doubt it'll grow to compete with Apple on any measurable level. It's still way too 'hackish' for many Apple users to even consider, and them receiving a hackintosh system still requires more effort than they are willing to spend to maintain/update it.
linguae 8y ago
As a Mac user disappointed with Apple's current direction with its hardware line, there are some risks with using Hackintoshes: 1. It requires considerable more work to set up and maintain a Hackintosh system than using Linux or *BSD, and it's completely unsupported. When I researched this last time, there were three sore points: (a) Upgrades between even minor point versions could sometimes mess up installations, (b) finding compatible hardware can be difficult (especially in the case of laptops), and (c) using Messages and iCloud on a Hackintosh could risk getting locked out of those accounts. 2. Installing macOS on a non-Apple product is a violation of the macOS EULA. Because of this, a Hackintosh may be a liability in professional environments. 3. Apple could make moves, intentional or unintentional, that could disrupt or even end the Hackintosh ecosystem. In the early days of Hackintoshes Intel Atom processors were supported, which resulted in people installing Hackintoshes on netbooks such as the Dell Mini 9. This ended when Apple stopped compiling support for Atom processors. A more serious showstopper would occur if Apple abandons the x86-64 in its Mac lineup. Then the Hackintosh community would be stuck with whatever is the latest version for the x86-64 architecture.
- arvinsim 8y ago
  I agree with your first point. But something must be said when people still forge on creating a Hackintosh system despite the considerable effort required to do so.
  - linguae 8y ago
    I wholeheartedly agree. I wish one of the following three things would happen: 1. Apple notices the popularity of Hackintoshes (as well as certain long-time Mac users switching to Windows or Linux) and makes Macs that fit their needs in order to win these customers back. 2. Apple legitimizes the Hackintosh by selling licenses for PC use. 3. A competing operating system with a well-polished UI designed with time-tested UI practices and is built on a stable and secure foundation emerges for generic PCs. I have a dream of an operating system with a Mac OS 8/9 interface with a foundation that is highly influenced by Lisp machines, the Smalltalk environment, and Apple's OpenDoc component UI.
    - simonh 8y ago
      Apple have noticed high end users complaining, hence the iMac Pros and upcoming new Mac Pros. Outside that, there is no perceptible loss of users. The much maligned Macbook Pros with butterfly keyboards and the touch bar are selling like there's no tomorrow.
    - auslander 8y ago
      > A competing operating system ... for generic PCs. Never gonna happen. Mac's are very secure and polished exactly because there is no PCs and only Apple hardware. Think Secure Enclave and EFI. No freaking vendors and their requirements, done right because they can. Amen.
      - WaltPurvis 8y ago
        >Mac's are very secure and polished exactly because there is no PCs and only Apple hardware. This seems obviously false, given the untold thousands of people running Hackintoshes (i.e., non-Apple hardware) with no reported security issues. I've run a Hackintosh for 5+ years and I've never had a problem with security. As for polish, my selected hardware is far better than what I could get from Apple, at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the nearest comparable (but still inferior) offerings from Apple. I'm talking desktops. Laptops might be a different story. For desktops, Apple engineering has been lagging and just generally underwhelming for at least half a decade now, and I don't think they have the interest or even the ability (culture, etc.) to regain their hardware chops.
- danieldk 8y ago
  4. Installing a Hackintosh often requires installing binary kexts of questionable origins. It is beyond me why people give some random person on the net ring-0 access.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    People do that all the time, though, for software like drivers or network extensions.
- bpye 8y ago
  If Apple stopped supporting x86-64 everyone with a current Mac would be stuck on the last version, not just people with Hackintoshes.
- rprime 8y ago
  With the right hardware, installing macOS is easier than installing Windows. I've been using hackintosh on and off for the past 10 years and if you buy tested hardware, installing it is a breeze most of the time, something that I cannot say about installing Ubuntu, which I do before going the hackintosh/windows route. I've had a very hard time to get Ubuntu/Arch to play well with my multiple monitors setup, including one 4K. The biggest downside in my opinion are the updates, as they're mostly guaranteed to break the setup. Overall, I recommend to at least try it, having a beast of a PC AND macOS cheaper than Apple can offer might be worth for some, it certainly is for me. Again, I want to emphasize that's necessary to have the right hardware.
auslander 8y ago
NVMe SSDs sitting on 4x PCIe lanes, having 2GBytes/s write and 6 GBytes/s read speeds. I would not call it failing ;)
- danieldk 8y ago
  We don't have to beat a dead horse, but a significant chunk of MacBook Pro 2016/2017 and MacBook 2015/2016/2017 users (including me) have had issues with the new keyboard (keys get stuck). Current MacBook Pros a maximum of 16GB RAM (yes, I know, Intel is to blame) and insane prices for upgrades to the base model. In older MacBooks, you could just replace the memory and hard drive. The current MacBooks and MacBook Pros only have USB-C connectors and a stereo jack, requiring dongles for VGA, HDMI, USB-A, MicroSD, etc. The MacBook line has regressed in quite many ways the last few years. The 'current' Mac Mini and Mac Pro are from the stone age. Heck, the current Mac Mini was a downgrade in many respects compared to the Mac Mini 2012. I have been a Mac user since 2007. But frankly, the whole line has gone down the drain, unless you can drop a few thousand Euros on a 27" iMac with an SSD and a reasonable amount of memory or the iMac Pro. The Dell Precision workstation that I bought 3-4 years ago second hand for ~400 Euro is more than twice as fast as my 1700 Euro MacBook Pro, has three times as much memory, and is expandable (added a 512GB SSD harvested from my 2012 Mac Mini).
  - auslander 8y ago
    I disagree. Name a laptop that beats the shit out of specced macbook ? Not that monster 'gaming' ones, please :D
    - JamesMcMinn 8y ago
      Dell's XPS range, for example. Can be configured with more memory, a better display, better port selection, is user upgradable and is still very light and compact...
      - Fnoord 8y ago
        Yeah, no. That device has coil whine (one reason not to get a butterfly keyboard is because of the noise), and the brightness cannot be adjusted manually. The keyboard isn't terrible, but the touchpad isn't as good as a Mac's. The Precision is better, but also more expensive. Interestingly though, I did see XPS line being supported in this hackintosh guide as well as the Xiaomi Notebook Pro.
digi_owl 8y ago
Or just let this hype driven company finally die so we can get on with things...
HillaryBriss 8y ago
i agree. and i think one must consider the tradeoffs on both sides. on one hand, there's the effort required to create a hackintosh in the first place and the challenge to keep it running as software updates arrive. on the other hand, the time, effort and cost to repair a recent, flaky Mac can be considerable: multiple trips to the Apple store to convince the geniuses that there really is something wrong with the hardware that cannot be fixed with an OS reinstall. multiple days of lost productivity waiting for geniuses to take a look at it and (maybe) try to fix it. the high costs of scarce Mac replacement parts in the after market. the ultimate trip to an independent Mac repair shop that actually knows how to fix the thing.

craftyguy 8y ago

I doubt it'll grow to compete with Apple on any measurable level. It's still way too 'hackish' for many Apple users to even consider, and them receiving a hackintosh system still requires more effort than they are willing to spend to maintain/update it.

linguae 8y ago

As a Mac user disappointed with Apple's current direction with its hardware line, there are some risks with using Hackintoshes: 1. It requires considerable more work to set up and maintain a Hackintosh system than using Linux or *BSD, and it's completely unsupported. When I researched this last time, there were three sore points: (a) Upgrades between even minor point versions could sometimes mess up installations, (b) finding compatible hardware can be difficult (especially in the case of laptops), and (c) using Messages and iCloud on a Hackintosh could risk getting locked out of those accounts. 2. Installing macOS on a non-Apple product is a violation of the macOS EULA. Because of this, a Hackintosh may be a liability in professional environments. 3. Apple could make moves, intentional or unintentional, that could disrupt or even end the Hackintosh ecosystem. In the early days of Hackintoshes Intel Atom processors were supported, which resulted in people installing Hackintoshes on netbooks such as the Dell Mini 9. This ended when Apple stopped compiling support for Atom processors. A more serious showstopper would occur if Apple abandons the x86-64 in its Mac lineup. Then the Hackintosh community would be stuck with whatever is the latest version for the x86-64 architecture.

arvinsim 8y ago
I agree with your first point. But something must be said when people still forge on creating a Hackintosh system despite the considerable effort required to do so.
- linguae 8y ago
  I wholeheartedly agree. I wish one of the following three things would happen: 1. Apple notices the popularity of Hackintoshes (as well as certain long-time Mac users switching to Windows or Linux) and makes Macs that fit their needs in order to win these customers back. 2. Apple legitimizes the Hackintosh by selling licenses for PC use. 3. A competing operating system with a well-polished UI designed with time-tested UI practices and is built on a stable and secure foundation emerges for generic PCs. I have a dream of an operating system with a Mac OS 8/9 interface with a foundation that is highly influenced by Lisp machines, the Smalltalk environment, and Apple's OpenDoc component UI.
  - simonh 8y ago
    Apple have noticed high end users complaining, hence the iMac Pros and upcoming new Mac Pros. Outside that, there is no perceptible loss of users. The much maligned Macbook Pros with butterfly keyboards and the touch bar are selling like there's no tomorrow.
  - auslander 8y ago
    > A competing operating system ... for generic PCs. Never gonna happen. Mac's are very secure and polished exactly because there is no PCs and only Apple hardware. Think Secure Enclave and EFI. No freaking vendors and their requirements, done right because they can. Amen.
    - WaltPurvis 8y ago
      >Mac's are very secure and polished exactly because there is no PCs and only Apple hardware. This seems obviously false, given the untold thousands of people running Hackintoshes (i.e., non-Apple hardware) with no reported security issues. I've run a Hackintosh for 5+ years and I've never had a problem with security. As for polish, my selected hardware is far better than what I could get from Apple, at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the nearest comparable (but still inferior) offerings from Apple. I'm talking desktops. Laptops might be a different story. For desktops, Apple engineering has been lagging and just generally underwhelming for at least half a decade now, and I don't think they have the interest or even the ability (culture, etc.) to regain their hardware chops.
danieldk 8y ago
4. Installing a Hackintosh often requires installing binary kexts of questionable origins. It is beyond me why people give some random person on the net ring-0 access.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  People do that all the time, though, for software like drivers or network extensions.
bpye 8y ago
If Apple stopped supporting x86-64 everyone with a current Mac would be stuck on the last version, not just people with Hackintoshes.
rprime 8y ago
With the right hardware, installing macOS is easier than installing Windows. I've been using hackintosh on and off for the past 10 years and if you buy tested hardware, installing it is a breeze most of the time, something that I cannot say about installing Ubuntu, which I do before going the hackintosh/windows route. I've had a very hard time to get Ubuntu/Arch to play well with my multiple monitors setup, including one 4K. The biggest downside in my opinion are the updates, as they're mostly guaranteed to break the setup. Overall, I recommend to at least try it, having a beast of a PC AND macOS cheaper than Apple can offer might be worth for some, it certainly is for me. Again, I want to emphasize that's necessary to have the right hardware.

auslander 8y ago

NVMe SSDs sitting on 4x PCIe lanes, having 2GBytes/s write and 6 GBytes/s read speeds. I would not call it failing ;)

danieldk 8y ago
We don't have to beat a dead horse, but a significant chunk of MacBook Pro 2016/2017 and MacBook 2015/2016/2017 users (including me) have had issues with the new keyboard (keys get stuck). Current MacBook Pros a maximum of 16GB RAM (yes, I know, Intel is to blame) and insane prices for upgrades to the base model. In older MacBooks, you could just replace the memory and hard drive. The current MacBooks and MacBook Pros only have USB-C connectors and a stereo jack, requiring dongles for VGA, HDMI, USB-A, MicroSD, etc. The MacBook line has regressed in quite many ways the last few years. The 'current' Mac Mini and Mac Pro are from the stone age. Heck, the current Mac Mini was a downgrade in many respects compared to the Mac Mini 2012. I have been a Mac user since 2007. But frankly, the whole line has gone down the drain, unless you can drop a few thousand Euros on a 27" iMac with an SSD and a reasonable amount of memory or the iMac Pro. The Dell Precision workstation that I bought 3-4 years ago second hand for ~400 Euro is more than twice as fast as my 1700 Euro MacBook Pro, has three times as much memory, and is expandable (added a 512GB SSD harvested from my 2012 Mac Mini).
- auslander 8y ago
  I disagree. Name a laptop that beats the shit out of specced macbook ? Not that monster 'gaming' ones, please :D
  - JamesMcMinn 8y ago
    Dell's XPS range, for example. Can be configured with more memory, a better display, better port selection, is user upgradable and is still very light and compact...
    - Fnoord 8y ago
      Yeah, no. That device has coil whine (one reason not to get a butterfly keyboard is because of the noise), and the brightness cannot be adjusted manually. The keyboard isn't terrible, but the touchpad isn't as good as a Mac's. The Precision is better, but also more expensive. Interestingly though, I did see XPS line being supported in this hackintosh guide as well as the Xiaomi Notebook Pro.

digi_owl 8y ago

Or just let this hype driven company finally die so we can get on with things...

HillaryBriss 8y ago

i agree. and i think one must consider the tradeoffs on both sides. on one hand, there's the effort required to create a hackintosh in the first place and the challenge to keep it running as software updates arrive. on the other hand, the time, effort and cost to repair a recent, flaky Mac can be considerable: multiple trips to the Apple store to convince the geniuses that there really is something wrong with the hardware that cannot be fixed with an OS reinstall. multiple days of lost productivity waiting for geniuses to take a look at it and (maybe) try to fix it. the high costs of scarce Mac replacement parts in the after market. the ultimate trip to an independent Mac repair shop that actually knows how to fix the thing.