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Just like people repeatedly breaking the windows of a coffee shop nearby because the owners are "bankers from London" (this was stated as the #1 selling point f

by m90 8y ago

Just like people repeatedly breaking the windows of a coffee shop nearby because the owners are "bankers from London" (this was stated as the #1 selling point for boycot in a flyer) this entire movement exposes the worst Kreuzberg has to offer: an incredibly self-righteous xenophobia. People think they are so incredibly open minded when they are pro refugees, but as soon as it's the "wrong kind of Ausländer" (the one where it's not possible to impose moral standards as easily as it's not possible to exploit their need for protection anymore) it's all evil all of a sudden. People will need to realize that they will need to be welcoming to either everyone or noone, everything else is just bigotry. Let's be welcoming to everyone I would propose.

knuththetruth 8y ago
Ah, the old “hating rich people is the same as racism” defense.
- mseebach 8y ago
  Ah, the old "my hateful violent behavior isn't literally racism" defence.
weirdstuff 8y ago
That's not what they're saying. They don't want Google specifically, for reasons they detail in-depth on their website. Being welcoming to everyone doesn't really work, or otherwise we wouldn't have prisons. Being open-minded is a two way street, remember.
- m90 8y ago
  I don't know if you live in the area (I only work there), but this is a recurring pattern that has happened quite a few times over the last years, not only to Google. Everything that is a. wealthy and b. from abroad will receive instant hatred. I talked to a few of these people and unfortunately it's only a very short way to conspiracy theories and open antisemitism surfacing. If you show up being German and wealthy, treatment will be way different unfortunately.
  - weirdstuff 8y ago
    These patterns are likely to happen in times of extreme wealth inequality. Many people point the finger at Google and the like, and they may have a good case.
  - pgeorgi 8y ago
    > If you show up being German and wealthy, treatment will be way different unfortunately. Try being wealthy while Swabian in Berlin.
    - m90 8y ago
      They might hate you for the money, but you won't be dragged into the depths of paranoid conspiracy theories about "wall street" taking over. Which, to me, makes a huge difference.
- beaner 8y ago
  People could list all sorts of reasons they don't want specific types of people. That doesn't mean they're right.
  - weirdstuff 8y ago
    It doesn't mean they're automatically wrong, either. Not sure you're saying much. They created a whole website to outline their argument.
alexryan 8y ago
I think you might be missing the bigger picture. 5 years ago these views would not have found any traction because nearly everyone loved Google. The general level of hatred in the community towards Google has increased significantly in that time. In my estimation this is due entirely to Google's own behavior since Sundar Pichai became CEO. When your CEO has an inability to resolve conflict in the direction of positive sum solutions, the losers of the zero sum game are going to hate you intensely and will certainly not come to your defense when you are attacked.
- hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
  I honestly doubt that any other CEO would have made any difference. Google's business model is fundamentally based on data mining as much as possible about their users, and what's changed in the past couple years is (a) a much greater awareness of the potential negative consequences of this data collection and (b) the sense that the American internet giants are becoming unstoppable juggernauts. The hate against Google was inevitable.
  - originalsimba 8y ago
    > I honestly doubt that any other CEO would have made any difference. Look at the huge difference made when the Walt Disney Corporation fired disgraced CEO Michael Eisner. They were having serious problems dealing with the new media markets, such as suing their fans, and many considered them one of the worst corporations in the world in terms of their contributions. The internet was flooded with the Cease and Desists from Disney's legal department which became an industrial threat-machine. Now it's 180 degrees different. Disney doesn't sue their fans anymore, they've got a healthy approach to online media, they don't even shut down most youtube fan-pages anymore. Public opinion of the Walt Disney Corporation is once again positive, their movies are once again original and interesting, and once again they're making a ton of money. All of this is the direct result of replacing their rotten-to-the-core CEO. The CEO is important, even when they don't seem so.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
    > Google's business model is fundamentally based on data mining You see, the point is, it doesn’t have to be.
praptak 8y ago
Lumping together people and corporations is questionable.
- beaner 8y ago
  The page itself does this by calling out "tech bros".
_bxg1 8y ago
What hypocrites! Welcoming war refugees but not an extension of one of the world's largest corporations.
- lap2 8y ago
  They aren't hyprocrites at all. Of course is not the CITY that is against Google, it's a group of people, as always. It's much a safer bet that this crew is against refugees even more (which BTW I agree 100%).
  - _bxg1 8y ago
    /s
point78 8y ago
One is a tax dodging multinational, the other are human beings. You're missing the point entirely.
jancsika 8y ago
> People will need to realize that they will need to be welcoming to either everyone or noone, everything else is just bigotry. AFAICT, Germany hasn't accused the NSA of doing anything illegal after the Snowden revelations. Should Germany be welcoming to the NSA in your opinion, lest Germany be accused of bigotry? If the answer is that it is a separate issue because the NSA is a government agency of a nation-state and not a citizen, then I think good faith requires that you grant FUGoogle an edge case to your argument as well. After all, the argument they are putting forward is that Google is a powerful organization that surveils, censors, and avoids paying taxes. (Also, they make the argument that Google can't legally say no to participating in U.S. wide-net surveillance programs.) Argue the substance, of which there is much, but please don't branch off into, "They came for Google and I said nothing." It's low effort.
accnumnplus1 8y ago
Sounds like London - people are open-minded as long as you tick the boxes to meet the requirements for being open-minded about. They fancy themselves open-minded but are really just mindlessly following another fad.
forapurpose 8y ago
I don't know much about this movement, but Google employees are not at all comparable to refugees; that's not a valid comparison.
- m90 8y ago
  In the end they're all people I'd argue.
wink 8y ago
I don't really think you can compare "multi-national megacorp" with refugees. It's not like they said "People who are working at Google or have worked at Google are not welcome" - for me this is a clear message to Google, the company. I don't have a real opinion on the matter per se, so please don't take this as taking a position.
glup 8y ago
>>People will need to realize that they will need to be welcoming to either everyone or noone, everything else is just bigotry If an individual or company violates prevailing prosocial norms within a community (not paying taxes in either case), the community reserves the right to remove them. If a company or individual threatens the long-term well being of the community (e.g. the business ecosystem) the community has the right to reject them. In the limit this is obvious (and provides a fairly robust counter-example to "Let's be welcoming to everyone"): a company can reject criminal or criminal organizations. Google's tax avoidance behavior has been pretty clearly antisocial (e.g. the double Irish Dutch sandwich arrangement), and arguably criminal. There are limits on Uber in Germany and limits on AirBnB in Berlin (IIRC it is not Germany-wide) for exactly this reason. It seems that Berliners are similarly worried about negative externalities entailed by Google establishing a campus there. If Google is willing to conform to community standards it may well have a place there. But that would probably require paying some back-owed taxes :)
- Concerned648 8y ago
  Ah, appealing to the "gesundes Volksempfinden" to get rid of unwanted people? > It seems that Berliners No, it's just some racist people operating a web site. They even suggest shooting Google ("bullets for Google", https://fuckoffgoogle.de/wp-content/uploads/photo-gallery/Kugeln_fur_Google.jpg https://fuckoffgoogle.de/wp-content/uploads/photo-gallery/Ku...). I'll wait a bit to see if they will make the connection to the Jewish world conspiracy (often refered to as "wall street", "financial elite" in such circles).
  - m90 8y ago
    > I'll wait a bit to see if they will make the connection to the Jewish world conspiracy (often refered to as "wall street", "financial elite" in such circles). This is very important. It's so deeply rooted in all of this it has me full of disgust. But apparently it's ok as long as you're german and you're not making rap music.
legulere 8y ago
Well it is a form of a fortified society. Google is a threat in form of displacement of the people there by financial means. Invulnerability of ones home is a constitutional right regardless of if you’re an owner or just a renter. You must not be accepting to those that destroy your society: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

by m90 8y ago

knuththetruth 8y ago

Ah, the old “hating rich people is the same as racism” defense.

mseebach 8y ago
Ah, the old "my hateful violent behavior isn't literally racism" defence.

weirdstuff 8y ago

That's not what they're saying. They don't want Google specifically, for reasons they detail in-depth on their website. Being welcoming to everyone doesn't really work, or otherwise we wouldn't have prisons. Being open-minded is a two way street, remember.

m90 8y ago
I don't know if you live in the area (I only work there), but this is a recurring pattern that has happened quite a few times over the last years, not only to Google. Everything that is a. wealthy and b. from abroad will receive instant hatred. I talked to a few of these people and unfortunately it's only a very short way to conspiracy theories and open antisemitism surfacing. If you show up being German and wealthy, treatment will be way different unfortunately.
- weirdstuff 8y ago
  These patterns are likely to happen in times of extreme wealth inequality. Many people point the finger at Google and the like, and they may have a good case.
- pgeorgi 8y ago
  > If you show up being German and wealthy, treatment will be way different unfortunately. Try being wealthy while Swabian in Berlin.
  - m90 8y ago
    They might hate you for the money, but you won't be dragged into the depths of paranoid conspiracy theories about "wall street" taking over. Which, to me, makes a huge difference.
beaner 8y ago
People could list all sorts of reasons they don't want specific types of people. That doesn't mean they're right.
- weirdstuff 8y ago
  It doesn't mean they're automatically wrong, either. Not sure you're saying much. They created a whole website to outline their argument.

alexryan 8y ago

I think you might be missing the bigger picture. 5 years ago these views would not have found any traction because nearly everyone loved Google. The general level of hatred in the community towards Google has increased significantly in that time. In my estimation this is due entirely to Google's own behavior since Sundar Pichai became CEO. When your CEO has an inability to resolve conflict in the direction of positive sum solutions, the losers of the zero sum game are going to hate you intensely and will certainly not come to your defense when you are attacked.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
I honestly doubt that any other CEO would have made any difference. Google's business model is fundamentally based on data mining as much as possible about their users, and what's changed in the past couple years is (a) a much greater awareness of the potential negative consequences of this data collection and (b) the sense that the American internet giants are becoming unstoppable juggernauts. The hate against Google was inevitable.
- originalsimba 8y ago
  > I honestly doubt that any other CEO would have made any difference. Look at the huge difference made when the Walt Disney Corporation fired disgraced CEO Michael Eisner. They were having serious problems dealing with the new media markets, such as suing their fans, and many considered them one of the worst corporations in the world in terms of their contributions. The internet was flooded with the Cease and Desists from Disney's legal department which became an industrial threat-machine. Now it's 180 degrees different. Disney doesn't sue their fans anymore, they've got a healthy approach to online media, they don't even shut down most youtube fan-pages anymore. Public opinion of the Walt Disney Corporation is once again positive, their movies are once again original and interesting, and once again they're making a ton of money. All of this is the direct result of replacing their rotten-to-the-core CEO. The CEO is important, even when they don't seem so.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  > Google's business model is fundamentally based on data mining You see, the point is, it doesn’t have to be.

praptak 8y ago

Lumping together people and corporations is questionable.

beaner 8y ago
The page itself does this by calling out "tech bros".

_bxg1 8y ago

What hypocrites! Welcoming war refugees but not an extension of one of the world's largest corporations.

lap2 8y ago
They aren't hyprocrites at all. Of course is not the CITY that is against Google, it's a group of people, as always. It's much a safer bet that this crew is against refugees even more (which BTW I agree 100%).
- _bxg1 8y ago
  /s

point78 8y ago

One is a tax dodging multinational, the other are human beings. You're missing the point entirely.

jancsika 8y ago

> People will need to realize that they will need to be welcoming to either everyone or noone, everything else is just bigotry. AFAICT, Germany hasn't accused the NSA of doing anything illegal after the Snowden revelations. Should Germany be welcoming to the NSA in your opinion, lest Germany be accused of bigotry? If the answer is that it is a separate issue because the NSA is a government agency of a nation-state and not a citizen, then I think good faith requires that you grant FUGoogle an edge case to your argument as well. After all, the argument they are putting forward is that Google is a powerful organization that surveils, censors, and avoids paying taxes. (Also, they make the argument that Google can't legally say no to participating in U.S. wide-net surveillance programs.) Argue the substance, of which there is much, but please don't branch off into, "They came for Google and I said nothing." It's low effort.

accnumnplus1 8y ago

Sounds like London - people are open-minded as long as you tick the boxes to meet the requirements for being open-minded about. They fancy themselves open-minded but are really just mindlessly following another fad.

forapurpose 8y ago

I don't know much about this movement, but Google employees are not at all comparable to refugees; that's not a valid comparison.

m90 8y ago
In the end they're all people I'd argue.

wink 8y ago

I don't really think you can compare "multi-national megacorp" with refugees. It's not like they said "People who are working at Google or have worked at Google are not welcome" - for me this is a clear message to Google, the company. I don't have a real opinion on the matter per se, so please don't take this as taking a position.

glup 8y ago

>>People will need to realize that they will need to be welcoming to either everyone or noone, everything else is just bigotry If an individual or company violates prevailing prosocial norms within a community (not paying taxes in either case), the community reserves the right to remove them. If a company or individual threatens the long-term well being of the community (e.g. the business ecosystem) the community has the right to reject them. In the limit this is obvious (and provides a fairly robust counter-example to "Let's be welcoming to everyone"): a company can reject criminal or criminal organizations. Google's tax avoidance behavior has been pretty clearly antisocial (e.g. the double Irish Dutch sandwich arrangement), and arguably criminal. There are limits on Uber in Germany and limits on AirBnB in Berlin (IIRC it is not Germany-wide) for exactly this reason. It seems that Berliners are similarly worried about negative externalities entailed by Google establishing a campus there. If Google is willing to conform to community standards it may well have a place there. But that would probably require paying some back-owed taxes :)

Concerned648 8y ago
Ah, appealing to the "gesundes Volksempfinden" to get rid of unwanted people? > It seems that Berliners No, it's just some racist people operating a web site. They even suggest shooting Google ("bullets for Google", https://fuckoffgoogle.de/wp-content/uploads/photo-gallery/Kugeln_fur_Google.jpg https://fuckoffgoogle.de/wp-content/uploads/photo-gallery/Ku...). I'll wait a bit to see if they will make the connection to the Jewish world conspiracy (often refered to as "wall street", "financial elite" in such circles).
- m90 8y ago
  > I'll wait a bit to see if they will make the connection to the Jewish world conspiracy (often refered to as "wall street", "financial elite" in such circles). This is very important. It's so deeply rooted in all of this it has me full of disgust. But apparently it's ok as long as you're german and you're not making rap music.

legulere 8y ago

Well it is a form of a fortified society. Google is a threat in form of displacement of the people there by financial means. Invulnerability of ones home is a constitutional right regardless of if you’re an owner or just a renter. You must not be accepting to those that destroy your society: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance