5 ms·

I can relate to this, I'm a 30 year old virgin, graduated with tech-related masters degree, and still a virgin. I don't resent women, I love women and some of

I can relate to this, I'm a 30 year old virgin, graduated with tech-related masters degree, and still a virgin. I don't resent women, I love women and some of my best friends are women, but I can't see myself ever having a physical experience due to my physical shortcomings. I'm well under-averagely endowed, a member of an undesirable race, and quite frankly think the age for acting as a goof for me has passed. I don't know how/when to ask women out, and I'm afraid if it'll be interpreted as sexual harassment. I'm no good looking chap for it to be considered flirting, might as well endure loneliness than social suicide. I cry myself to sleep some nights, but at least I get to live a life where I can feed myself and distract myself by helping others through work/volunteering. Cherish your loved ones, and don't take them for granted. The pain of never having those experiences is something I'll never wish for others.

noobermin 8y ago
First, I sympathize with your pain. Don't let your lack of sex be something that reduces your value because it doesn't. For example, a masters degree is an achievement! That means you have a square mind on your shoulders and are willing to work hard. Those are admirable qualities. I'll also say try not to listen to closely to the stereotypes. I see two in there, one that flirting will be considered harassment if you aren't good looking and the second is that women (or people in general) can't be sexually attracted to someone who isn't "good looking." The reality is many people are a lot more open minded than that. Tinder helps, and if you're more open minded as well about whom you're willing to be with, you might find someone fun and be surprised that you were never as unlovable as you thought you were.
- lonelyengineer 8y ago
  Thank you for your kind words. I'm guilty of underestimating myself, and recently a friend told me that as I quoted $28/hour for building an e-commerce platform store. I've never had attention from a woman, and usually I find it's just me being hopeless sending them mulitple texts and being annoying (and often neglected, as I have nothing of worth to offer). I stop I don't know how sweet nothings are uttered, I don't know what pillow talk would be like. I don't know how life with an other adult works. My only intimate experience are vicarious from books and films. Maybe that's what life is about living one's own film with them as the protagonist.
  - sridca 8y ago
    Have you not ever wondered about people that are as much of a virgin and unloved as you are and yet are naively mirthful and genial with an unconsciously callous disregard for societal value around love and desire?
- guskel 8y ago
  You're going to recommend Tinder? Most guys have an incredibly hard time even getting matches. I can't see how that is good advice.
berberous 8y ago
Go to therapy. You may well be below average in looks, and have to settle for a partner with below average looks, but everyone has shortcomings and I'm not convinced you couldn't find a life partner that would make you happy if you tried. It sounds like whatever your physical deficits may be, you are also insecure, fearful of rejection, and not working on improving your social skills. Don't quit before you've even tried.
- noobermin 8y ago
  And dear god, no one has to see dating anyone who isn't Kim Kardasian "settling". I've had sex with women who aren't what society considers "above average" but it was still fantastic. And my girlfriend isn't a model but she and I share a connection that could not be replicated with anyone else. A lot of the issue is society tries to input ideas about what is "sexy" into our heads and a large part of realizing sexual liberation (both for yourself and with your partner) is dismantling those ideas and throwing them in the trash.
  - abandonliberty 8y ago
    Ugh. We have whole communities of these people (e.g. incels). I have female friends who will be single forever with impossibly long detailed lists of requirements that will never be met. It's really quite sad. On the other hand if you can buy into something that isn't considered highly desirable by society but is very prevalent, well, you can have a really, really good time.
    - lonelyengineer 8y ago
      I have no such detailed lists. I'm human and flawed, some of it stems from not accepting myself and a lack of self-love.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - tasuki 8y ago
malmsteen 8y ago
Check seduction forums and communites they have helped so many peopme like u... (pm for more details) Also just go see a hooker already Edit : and read himom comments down there
- meowface 8y ago
  Do anything but this.
  - lonelyengineer 8y ago
    I respect myself and women to know this won't solve it. I don't really care for lack of sex, its the lack of love cuts deep.
    - meowface 8y ago
      As someone who used to be in your position for a long time, that was also my stance, and I'm very glad I didn't try to abate my loneliness with prostitutes or "seduction".
- SpecialistEMT 8y ago
  Please dont go this toxic route.
abandonliberty 8y ago
Start failing. If you want a different outcome change your behavior and take some chances. You will probably fail a lot because it's difficult, compatibility is rare, and we do a terrible job preparing men with appropriate dating behaviors. It can be very difficult but also rewarding. Most people seek mates of higher value+loyalty to ensure their survival. The prevalence of this behavior is a testament to its evolutionary success. Do you sincerely believe that you're a low value mate, or are you seeking to avoid discomfort?
- lonelyengineer 8y ago
  Thank you for your kind words. I honestly don't think I'm a low value mate. I've demonstrated loyalty and my friends know this. But not yet a high value mate as I'm in the market for a job + student loans, fear of driving, etc. I've always been risk averse due to the way I was brought up. Failure was death. I would avoid doing things that could have an outcome related to it, and unsurprisingly impacted my engineerong skills a lot. I would double check everything before executing code on even staging (and of course the Intern mishaps as usual). I have started to work on myself and quite recently lost some weight and trying to get into some discernable shape. Can't thank you enough for taking your time out to help a fellow man, hope you have a wonderful evening and the rest of the weekend.
  - ytwySXpMbS 8y ago
    You're overthinking this. People don't add up the value of a "mate" and pick the highest valued one. They look for someone they get on well with. No one cares if you fear driving, no one cares if you have student loans. Maybe you should talk to friends about your problems, I know when I did I discovered everyone's got problems, mostly the same as mine, and no one gives a shit, including their girlfriends. No one's perfect.
  - abandonliberty 8y ago
    Excellent. Potential value is still value. Discipline is value. It's easy to tell you that I'm really intelligent, wealthy, and friendly, whether or not it's true. Much of dating is around finding ways to demonstrate/identify desired characteristics (e.g. "wealthy people don't tell you they're wealthy"). There are people who know how to play this game without having the underlying values they telegraph (leads to issues in the long run, avoid). The much maligned 'just be yourself' is actually entirely true, just firmly in the simple, not easy, category. Love yourself, know your strengths, and don't give up. A rejection saves you time and moves you closer to the right person(s). Lions have a hunt success rate of 19%. If they were human, they would give into despair after 3 attempts, convince themselves they're a failure, get even worse at hunting, then starve to death. Don't take failure personally.
xiphias 8y ago
The most important parts of being attractive is improving on your looks (dress sharply, have a fit body using a trainer in the gym) and location (if you live in California, male/female ratio is extremely bad, move to NY, or somewhere where you are treated as a special person, i.e. Colombia if you look Asian). Goodlookingloser.com has quite a bit of information of the looks part.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
koonsolo 8y ago
> I'm well under-averagely endowed, a member of an undesirable race, and quite frankly think the age for acting as a goof for me has passed. I don't know how/when to ask women out, and I'm afraid if it'll be interpreted as sexual harassment. I'm no good looking chap for it to be considered flirting, might as well endure loneliness than social suicide. You are sabotaging yourself here. You won't find a girlfriend as long as you believe this story to be true. Girls don't care that much about the looks of guys, but they do care that they are clean, well dressed, etc. They also care about confidence and successful men. But even then it doesn't matter that much. We have an expression "On every pot there is a lid that fits". I've met girls that were attracted to older men, to asian guys, etc. You don't have to be attractive to the average girl, you just have to find that one person that fits with you.
- lonelyengineer 8y ago
  Thank you. I probably have some deep seated issues that I seem to be working with, one of the women I had attracted to had said some remarks (about a third person) about these features and I implicitly assumed that most women looked for those qualities.
throwaway1702 8y ago
Try seekingarrangment to experience flirting in real life without anxiety. You'll gain the skill and will be able to use it in regular interactions.

noobermin 8y ago

First, I sympathize with your pain. Don't let your lack of sex be something that reduces your value because it doesn't. For example, a masters degree is an achievement! That means you have a square mind on your shoulders and are willing to work hard. Those are admirable qualities. I'll also say try not to listen to closely to the stereotypes. I see two in there, one that flirting will be considered harassment if you aren't good looking and the second is that women (or people in general) can't be sexually attracted to someone who isn't "good looking." The reality is many people are a lot more open minded than that. Tinder helps, and if you're more open minded as well about whom you're willing to be with, you might find someone fun and be surprised that you were never as unlovable as you thought you were.

lonelyengineer 8y ago
Thank you for your kind words. I'm guilty of underestimating myself, and recently a friend told me that as I quoted $28/hour for building an e-commerce platform store. I've never had attention from a woman, and usually I find it's just me being hopeless sending them mulitple texts and being annoying (and often neglected, as I have nothing of worth to offer). I stop I don't know how sweet nothings are uttered, I don't know what pillow talk would be like. I don't know how life with an other adult works. My only intimate experience are vicarious from books and films. Maybe that's what life is about living one's own film with them as the protagonist.
- sridca 8y ago
  Have you not ever wondered about people that are as much of a virgin and unloved as you are and yet are naively mirthful and genial with an unconsciously callous disregard for societal value around love and desire?
guskel 8y ago
You're going to recommend Tinder? Most guys have an incredibly hard time even getting matches. I can't see how that is good advice.

berberous 8y ago

Go to therapy. You may well be below average in looks, and have to settle for a partner with below average looks, but everyone has shortcomings and I'm not convinced you couldn't find a life partner that would make you happy if you tried. It sounds like whatever your physical deficits may be, you are also insecure, fearful of rejection, and not working on improving your social skills. Don't quit before you've even tried.

noobermin 8y ago
And dear god, no one has to see dating anyone who isn't Kim Kardasian "settling". I've had sex with women who aren't what society considers "above average" but it was still fantastic. And my girlfriend isn't a model but she and I share a connection that could not be replicated with anyone else. A lot of the issue is society tries to input ideas about what is "sexy" into our heads and a large part of realizing sexual liberation (both for yourself and with your partner) is dismantling those ideas and throwing them in the trash.
- abandonliberty 8y ago
  Ugh. We have whole communities of these people (e.g. incels). I have female friends who will be single forever with impossibly long detailed lists of requirements that will never be met. It's really quite sad. On the other hand if you can buy into something that isn't considered highly desirable by society but is very prevalent, well, you can have a really, really good time.
  - lonelyengineer 8y ago
    I have no such detailed lists. I'm human and flawed, some of it stems from not accepting myself and a lack of self-love.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - tasuki 8y ago

malmsteen 8y ago

Check seduction forums and communites they have helped so many peopme like u... (pm for more details) Also just go see a hooker already Edit : and read himom comments down there

meowface 8y ago
Do anything but this.
- lonelyengineer 8y ago
  I respect myself and women to know this won't solve it. I don't really care for lack of sex, its the lack of love cuts deep.
  - meowface 8y ago
    As someone who used to be in your position for a long time, that was also my stance, and I'm very glad I didn't try to abate my loneliness with prostitutes or "seduction".
SpecialistEMT 8y ago
Please dont go this toxic route.

abandonliberty 8y ago

Start failing. If you want a different outcome change your behavior and take some chances. You will probably fail a lot because it's difficult, compatibility is rare, and we do a terrible job preparing men with appropriate dating behaviors. It can be very difficult but also rewarding. Most people seek mates of higher value+loyalty to ensure their survival. The prevalence of this behavior is a testament to its evolutionary success. Do you sincerely believe that you're a low value mate, or are you seeking to avoid discomfort?

lonelyengineer 8y ago
Thank you for your kind words. I honestly don't think I'm a low value mate. I've demonstrated loyalty and my friends know this. But not yet a high value mate as I'm in the market for a job + student loans, fear of driving, etc. I've always been risk averse due to the way I was brought up. Failure was death. I would avoid doing things that could have an outcome related to it, and unsurprisingly impacted my engineerong skills a lot. I would double check everything before executing code on even staging (and of course the Intern mishaps as usual). I have started to work on myself and quite recently lost some weight and trying to get into some discernable shape. Can't thank you enough for taking your time out to help a fellow man, hope you have a wonderful evening and the rest of the weekend.
- ytwySXpMbS 8y ago
  You're overthinking this. People don't add up the value of a "mate" and pick the highest valued one. They look for someone they get on well with. No one cares if you fear driving, no one cares if you have student loans. Maybe you should talk to friends about your problems, I know when I did I discovered everyone's got problems, mostly the same as mine, and no one gives a shit, including their girlfriends. No one's perfect.
- abandonliberty 8y ago
  Excellent. Potential value is still value. Discipline is value. It's easy to tell you that I'm really intelligent, wealthy, and friendly, whether or not it's true. Much of dating is around finding ways to demonstrate/identify desired characteristics (e.g. "wealthy people don't tell you they're wealthy"). There are people who know how to play this game without having the underlying values they telegraph (leads to issues in the long run, avoid). The much maligned 'just be yourself' is actually entirely true, just firmly in the simple, not easy, category. Love yourself, know your strengths, and don't give up. A rejection saves you time and moves you closer to the right person(s). Lions have a hunt success rate of 19%. If they were human, they would give into despair after 3 attempts, convince themselves they're a failure, get even worse at hunting, then starve to death. Don't take failure personally.

xiphias 8y ago

The most important parts of being attractive is improving on your looks (dress sharply, have a fit body using a trainer in the gym) and location (if you live in California, male/female ratio is extremely bad, move to NY, or somewhere where you are treated as a special person, i.e. Colombia if you look Asian). Goodlookingloser.com has quite a bit of information of the looks part.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

koonsolo 8y ago

> I'm well under-averagely endowed, a member of an undesirable race, and quite frankly think the age for acting as a goof for me has passed. I don't know how/when to ask women out, and I'm afraid if it'll be interpreted as sexual harassment. I'm no good looking chap for it to be considered flirting, might as well endure loneliness than social suicide. You are sabotaging yourself here. You won't find a girlfriend as long as you believe this story to be true. Girls don't care that much about the looks of guys, but they do care that they are clean, well dressed, etc. They also care about confidence and successful men. But even then it doesn't matter that much. We have an expression "On every pot there is a lid that fits". I've met girls that were attracted to older men, to asian guys, etc. You don't have to be attractive to the average girl, you just have to find that one person that fits with you.

lonelyengineer 8y ago
Thank you. I probably have some deep seated issues that I seem to be working with, one of the women I had attracted to had said some remarks (about a third person) about these features and I implicitly assumed that most women looked for those qualities.

throwaway1702 8y ago

Try seekingarrangment to experience flirting in real life without anxiety. You'll gain the skill and will be able to use it in regular interactions.