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Yes, there are obese people with excellent posture, just as there are athletes who have terrible posture as soon as they walk off the playing field. The stuff

Yes, there are obese people with excellent posture, just as there are athletes who have terrible posture as soon as they walk off the playing field. The stuff about tight muscles or weak muscles is nonsense: good posture is usually well within the center of your range of motion. You can't analyze human motion using statics. The fact is that not only is your body an incredibly complex tensegrity structure, it is also hooked to earth's most impressive control system via millions of inputs and outputs. Posture is an aspect of the control system, not the physical structure. Source: I am trained as an Alexander Teacher.

paulsutter 8y ago
Have any videos of obese people with excellent posture? Especially while walking or performing ordinary tasks? How much do you charge for this idea-retraining? Why are you hiding behind a throwaway?
- throway45981 8y ago
  Other people on the thread seem to see a distinction between fitness and posture. If you can't see it, video probably won't convince you. HN has become a very uncivil place, don't you think? I don't even remember the name of my old account, it's been so long since I posted here.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- ivanhoe 8y ago
  I can only presume that most of these obese people with excellent posture were at some point (probably in their youth) physically very active. I remember my grandpa walking as straight as an arrow, although he was old (over 80) and fairly obese by that time. But that's because he was very athletic as younger, and still had kept a significant muscle mass although he was fat and out of shape on the first look. Proper posture simply requires that you have enough muscles that are not just strong, but also balanced in strength and length and flexibility in all directions.
- dang 8y ago
  That crosses into personal attack and breaks the site guidelines, which ask you to assume good faith. Could you please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow them when posting here?
  - paulsutter 8y ago
    You’re right, thanks I’m a non-fit person with poor posture myself, and I definitely worded that badly
Jommi 8y ago
I wouldn't be so brash as to just dismiss the substantial amount of research into muscles and posture. Especially without presenting any actual evidence yourself. After reading most comments here, it seems Alexander is an alternative approach to thinking of posture. Not sure how you could prove it is the "correct" one.
- crazygringo 8y ago
  I'm not sure AT dismisses any research at all. What scientific research would you present that leads to people adopting better posture? There's a tremendous amount of work on biomechanics, of course, but from what I know that tends to be descriptive rather than normative, or look at parts in isolation and not really be helpful at all for an otherwise healthy human being looking to improve their posture. If you say AT is "alternative", what are you proposing is the evidence-based practice it is alternative to? Because unfortunately I'm not aware of any.
- throway45981 8y ago
  I think you'll find that the "strengthening" theory of posture is mostly spread by personal trainers rather than researchers into neuromuscular control. I would expect any sort of mindful physical activity to improve posture to some extent, but the muscles that manage posture are not under voluntary control. Exercises designed for the large superficial muscles only strengthen the postural muscles incidentally. I wouldn't assert that AT is the "correct" way to think about anything: there are a huge number of different disciplines trying to get at the same effect with different dogmas. All these disciplines struggle with a mixture of dogma and genuine insight. Empirically, studies on AT have shown small but measurable effects across a variety of metrics including lung function, back pain, and dynamic balance. It has also been shown to reduce effort as measured by electromyography and force platforms. All these studies are complicated by the lack of a "standardized AT teacher". Most of the current research is funded by the British NHS, which recommends AT as a more cost-effective back pain intervention than surgery.

paulsutter 8y ago

Have any videos of obese people with excellent posture? Especially while walking or performing ordinary tasks? How much do you charge for this idea-retraining? Why are you hiding behind a throwaway?

throway45981 8y ago
Other people on the thread seem to see a distinction between fitness and posture. If you can't see it, video probably won't convince you. HN has become a very uncivil place, don't you think? I don't even remember the name of my old account, it's been so long since I posted here.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
ivanhoe 8y ago
I can only presume that most of these obese people with excellent posture were at some point (probably in their youth) physically very active. I remember my grandpa walking as straight as an arrow, although he was old (over 80) and fairly obese by that time. But that's because he was very athletic as younger, and still had kept a significant muscle mass although he was fat and out of shape on the first look. Proper posture simply requires that you have enough muscles that are not just strong, but also balanced in strength and length and flexibility in all directions.
dang 8y ago
That crosses into personal attack and breaks the site guidelines, which ask you to assume good faith. Could you please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow them when posting here?
- paulsutter 8y ago
  You’re right, thanks I’m a non-fit person with poor posture myself, and I definitely worded that badly

Jommi 8y ago

I wouldn't be so brash as to just dismiss the substantial amount of research into muscles and posture. Especially without presenting any actual evidence yourself. After reading most comments here, it seems Alexander is an alternative approach to thinking of posture. Not sure how you could prove it is the "correct" one.

crazygringo 8y ago
I'm not sure AT dismisses any research at all. What scientific research would you present that leads to people adopting better posture? There's a tremendous amount of work on biomechanics, of course, but from what I know that tends to be descriptive rather than normative, or look at parts in isolation and not really be helpful at all for an otherwise healthy human being looking to improve their posture. If you say AT is "alternative", what are you proposing is the evidence-based practice it is alternative to? Because unfortunately I'm not aware of any.
throway45981 8y ago
I think you'll find that the "strengthening" theory of posture is mostly spread by personal trainers rather than researchers into neuromuscular control. I would expect any sort of mindful physical activity to improve posture to some extent, but the muscles that manage posture are not under voluntary control. Exercises designed for the large superficial muscles only strengthen the postural muscles incidentally. I wouldn't assert that AT is the "correct" way to think about anything: there are a huge number of different disciplines trying to get at the same effect with different dogmas. All these disciplines struggle with a mixture of dogma and genuine insight. Empirically, studies on AT have shown small but measurable effects across a variety of metrics including lung function, back pain, and dynamic balance. It has also been shown to reduce effort as measured by electromyography and force platforms. All these studies are complicated by the lack of a "standardized AT teacher". Most of the current research is funded by the British NHS, which recommends AT as a more cost-effective back pain intervention than surgery.