4 ms·

As one of the maligned "people with laptops", I often wonder how much I'm expected to spend. What's the expected $/hour you should drop if you spend all day wor

by karzeem 16y ago

As one of the maligned "people with laptops", I often wonder how much I'm expected to spend. What's the expected $/hour you should drop if you spend all day working in a cafe?

hugh3 16y ago
My logic is that I can stay as long as it takes me to finish what I'm eating and drinking, and maybe a few minutes longer. If I'm working on my laptop or reading a book then I'll stretch it out a bit, but it's not really possible to make a cup of coffee last more than twenty minutes. I can't possibly imagine eating and drinking enough to justify my presence in a cafe for an entire day.
- drunkpotato 16y ago
  What leads you to that logic? Why do you need to justify your presence?
  - charleso 16y ago
    Because Hugh would be denying the café revenue if he occupied the table without a purchase or 'nursed' a coffee for an unreasonably long period of time. Each table needs to earn $n each hour to keep the place in business. If you enjoy your neighbourhood café, you should do your part to add to that revenue as much as possible while you enjoy their services.
    - matwood 16y ago
      A coffee shop isn't a sit down restaurant so $/table/hour isn't a very good metric. A friend of mine owns a coffee shop and he's told me that most of his business is walk in and outs. He doesn't mind if people buy a single drink and hang out for a few hours (IIRC he said 1 drink/2 hours and he comes out ahead). He even has one room that groups can 'reserve' for an hour or two if they want to meet in a more private setting. Keep in mind this is a very local shop with great coffee, and he runs it with 2 other employees. His biggest complaint/cost/profit issue is the price of milk and how much is used in a latte.
lionhearted 16y ago
> As one of the maligned "people with laptops", I often wonder how much I'm expected to spend. What's the expected $/hour you should drop if you spend all day working in a cafe? I think it depends on how busy it is. If the place is dead, they'd probably be grateful for you to sit there and make it look more happening for someone who comes in. But during busy time, clogging up table space for three hours on one coffee is probably aggravating. When I go to a non-chain, if I want to sit for longer than is normal, I just ask them. "I was thinking of having a coffee and hanging out on my laptop for a few hours - is that okay with you?" 90% of shops will say yes if they're not busy, or tell you when the time that that they get busy is. 10% will give a hesitant yes or non-answer, and I'll either only stay a short time or head out from there. Like everything, it depends on the particular situation.
- jrockway 16y ago
  Wow, actually working together and talking to solve problems instead of passive-aggressive "no laptops allowed" signs or "I hate my customer" blog posts? What a concept...
  - drunkpotato 16y ago
    I like your thinking even better than mine. Although I don't think sarcasm translates well to this format.
- Zev 16y ago
  When I'm in a non-chain coffee shop, I make sure to tip well and to make sure to keep an eye on how active the shop is. Plus, buy a coffee or a small thing to eat every so often if I plan on being there for awhile. If it gets busy and its been a decent amount of time (30-45m-ish) since my last purchase, I'll just head out. The exception to this rule is the coffee place in my college's library; there's plenty of seating in the rest of the building. If I'm on a couch there, I tend to stay there until I'm done with whatever I'm working on.
FiddlerClamp 16y ago
I will usually buy an iced coffee freeze (or whatever they're called) + pastry when I sit down. Once I finish the freeze, I'll buy root beers and bottled water as I go through them.
- jamesbritt 16y ago
  Sort of a side question, but what do you (or others) do when all that fluid makes you urn to the bathroom? Do you leave your laptop at the table? Pack the expensive stuff up and and take it with you? Find a pal and ask them to watch your stuff while you go pee?
  - rendezvouscp 16y ago
    If the place is empty, it’s easy to just pack up and take your stuff with you. If you’re at a university, I generally ask someone if they’d be willing to watch my stuff. If I don’t feel comfortable and it’s busy, I’ll put my laptop in my bag and leave a book or something where I was sitting.
  - FiddlerClamp 16y ago
    I take my cell phone and iPod, and ask the waitstaff to please keep an eye on the laptop (which I've locked to the login screen). I figure that's good enough.
drunkpotato 16y ago
I suppose it depends on the place. If you tip well you can spend a long time in Starbucks without ever getting hassled. I drop 50c to $1 for each drink, including "free" refills. I worked for another corporate coffee company and we never gave any customers a hard time for staying for hours or holding meetings. It was the same philosophy we had for re-doing drink orders no matter what the complaint. Sure, some small fraction take advantage, but for every illegitimate complaint you ferret out by putting up resistance you will irritate at least one paying customer, and that's a customer you lose forever. The economics might work out differently for an independent coffee shop, but I doubt it. I find it far more likely that many coffee shops are opened by people who aren't that great at business or customer service in the first place and just think starting a coffee shop would be cool. In sum, spend as much as you like on the products you want, and don't worry about it. If the shop decides you're a drain on the business, it's up to them to ask you to leave, and lose you as a customer forever. That's their calculus to decide, not yours.
ars 16y ago
Why not go to the library? Many of them allow food (some even sell it!), and they are perfectly happy for you to stay there all day.
- imack 16y ago
  I use the library a lot, but in a weird way I actually find it quieter in a coffee shop. Libraries are mostly quiet, but the one group of gossiping people pretending to study becomes that much more annoying since you can make out every word. Background noise in a coffee shop is more ambient and generally constant. I also don't get outraged when I hear someone speaking since they aren't breaking a rule or making me think they never saw the episode of sesame street where kids learn to be quiet in the library.
  - ludwigvan 16y ago
    True, sometimes silence becomes too noisy. I believe it has to do with flatting out of the spectrum in a coffee shop. Your comment brought one idea, I know there are white/brown noise samples, and nature sounds that make the atmosphere more ambient. Does anyone know sound samples taken in coffee shops?
    - brunoc 16y ago
      This is not at all what you're asking for, but I was reminded of something I found a few years ago that some of you may find interesting, the Arcade Ambience project. This is a series of ambience recordings done in video game arcades 1981-1992. http://arcade.hofle.com/ http://arcade.hofle.com/ If you're in the mood for a nostalgic, noisy ambience. :D
  - 10ren 16y ago
    I feel the same. BYO music (iPod) helps, but not completely. On this topic, there's sometimes a really annoying hum where I live. White noise solves it. In summer, I use a box fan. In winter, I used to use this: cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp And now use this, because it can be set with lower frequencies: http://freshmeat.net/projects/whitenoise/ http://freshmeat.net/projects/whitenoise/ But the best thing is to take a brisk walk in the fresh air, and notice nature. How fortunate to be prompted to do this beneficial thing! (a convenient rationalization that is also absolute truth.)

by karzeem 16y ago

As one of the maligned "people with laptops", I often wonder how much I'm expected to spend. What's the expected $/hour you should drop if you spend all day working in a cafe?

hugh3 16y ago

My logic is that I can stay as long as it takes me to finish what I'm eating and drinking, and maybe a few minutes longer. If I'm working on my laptop or reading a book then I'll stretch it out a bit, but it's not really possible to make a cup of coffee last more than twenty minutes. I can't possibly imagine eating and drinking enough to justify my presence in a cafe for an entire day.

drunkpotato 16y ago
What leads you to that logic? Why do you need to justify your presence?
- charleso 16y ago
  Because Hugh would be denying the café revenue if he occupied the table without a purchase or 'nursed' a coffee for an unreasonably long period of time. Each table needs to earn $n each hour to keep the place in business. If you enjoy your neighbourhood café, you should do your part to add to that revenue as much as possible while you enjoy their services.
  - matwood 16y ago
    A coffee shop isn't a sit down restaurant so $/table/hour isn't a very good metric. A friend of mine owns a coffee shop and he's told me that most of his business is walk in and outs. He doesn't mind if people buy a single drink and hang out for a few hours (IIRC he said 1 drink/2 hours and he comes out ahead). He even has one room that groups can 'reserve' for an hour or two if they want to meet in a more private setting. Keep in mind this is a very local shop with great coffee, and he runs it with 2 other employees. His biggest complaint/cost/profit issue is the price of milk and how much is used in a latte.

lionhearted 16y ago

> As one of the maligned "people with laptops", I often wonder how much I'm expected to spend. What's the expected $/hour you should drop if you spend all day working in a cafe? I think it depends on how busy it is. If the place is dead, they'd probably be grateful for you to sit there and make it look more happening for someone who comes in. But during busy time, clogging up table space for three hours on one coffee is probably aggravating. When I go to a non-chain, if I want to sit for longer than is normal, I just ask them. "I was thinking of having a coffee and hanging out on my laptop for a few hours - is that okay with you?" 90% of shops will say yes if they're not busy, or tell you when the time that that they get busy is. 10% will give a hesitant yes or non-answer, and I'll either only stay a short time or head out from there. Like everything, it depends on the particular situation.

jrockway 16y ago
Wow, actually working together and talking to solve problems instead of passive-aggressive "no laptops allowed" signs or "I hate my customer" blog posts? What a concept...
- drunkpotato 16y ago
  I like your thinking even better than mine. Although I don't think sarcasm translates well to this format.
Zev 16y ago
When I'm in a non-chain coffee shop, I make sure to tip well and to make sure to keep an eye on how active the shop is. Plus, buy a coffee or a small thing to eat every so often if I plan on being there for awhile. If it gets busy and its been a decent amount of time (30-45m-ish) since my last purchase, I'll just head out. The exception to this rule is the coffee place in my college's library; there's plenty of seating in the rest of the building. If I'm on a couch there, I tend to stay there until I'm done with whatever I'm working on.

FiddlerClamp 16y ago

I will usually buy an iced coffee freeze (or whatever they're called) + pastry when I sit down. Once I finish the freeze, I'll buy root beers and bottled water as I go through them.

jamesbritt 16y ago
Sort of a side question, but what do you (or others) do when all that fluid makes you urn to the bathroom? Do you leave your laptop at the table? Pack the expensive stuff up and and take it with you? Find a pal and ask them to watch your stuff while you go pee?
- rendezvouscp 16y ago
  If the place is empty, it’s easy to just pack up and take your stuff with you. If you’re at a university, I generally ask someone if they’d be willing to watch my stuff. If I don’t feel comfortable and it’s busy, I’ll put my laptop in my bag and leave a book or something where I was sitting.
- FiddlerClamp 16y ago
  I take my cell phone and iPod, and ask the waitstaff to please keep an eye on the laptop (which I've locked to the login screen). I figure that's good enough.

drunkpotato 16y ago

I suppose it depends on the place. If you tip well you can spend a long time in Starbucks without ever getting hassled. I drop 50c to $1 for each drink, including "free" refills. I worked for another corporate coffee company and we never gave any customers a hard time for staying for hours or holding meetings. It was the same philosophy we had for re-doing drink orders no matter what the complaint. Sure, some small fraction take advantage, but for every illegitimate complaint you ferret out by putting up resistance you will irritate at least one paying customer, and that's a customer you lose forever. The economics might work out differently for an independent coffee shop, but I doubt it. I find it far more likely that many coffee shops are opened by people who aren't that great at business or customer service in the first place and just think starting a coffee shop would be cool. In sum, spend as much as you like on the products you want, and don't worry about it. If the shop decides you're a drain on the business, it's up to them to ask you to leave, and lose you as a customer forever. That's their calculus to decide, not yours.

ars 16y ago

Why not go to the library? Many of them allow food (some even sell it!), and they are perfectly happy for you to stay there all day.

imack 16y ago
I use the library a lot, but in a weird way I actually find it quieter in a coffee shop. Libraries are mostly quiet, but the one group of gossiping people pretending to study becomes that much more annoying since you can make out every word. Background noise in a coffee shop is more ambient and generally constant. I also don't get outraged when I hear someone speaking since they aren't breaking a rule or making me think they never saw the episode of sesame street where kids learn to be quiet in the library.
- ludwigvan 16y ago
  True, sometimes silence becomes too noisy. I believe it has to do with flatting out of the spectrum in a coffee shop. Your comment brought one idea, I know there are white/brown noise samples, and nature sounds that make the atmosphere more ambient. Does anyone know sound samples taken in coffee shops?
  - brunoc 16y ago
    This is not at all what you're asking for, but I was reminded of something I found a few years ago that some of you may find interesting, the Arcade Ambience project. This is a series of ambience recordings done in video game arcades 1981-1992. http://arcade.hofle.com/ http://arcade.hofle.com/ If you're in the mood for a nostalgic, noisy ambience. :D
- 10ren 16y ago
  I feel the same. BYO music (iPod) helps, but not completely. On this topic, there's sometimes a really annoying hum where I live. White noise solves it. In summer, I use a box fan. In winter, I used to use this: cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp And now use this, because it can be set with lower frequencies: http://freshmeat.net/projects/whitenoise/ http://freshmeat.net/projects/whitenoise/ But the best thing is to take a brisk walk in the fresh air, and notice nature. How fortunate to be prompted to do this beneficial thing! (a convenient rationalization that is also absolute truth.)