11 ms·

This novel, along with 'Crime and punishement' deal with completely opposite personalities. One has a very optimistic view of the world, the other, Raskolnikov

by urmish 8y ago

This novel, along with 'Crime and punishement' deal with completely opposite personalities. One has a very optimistic view of the world, the other, Raskolnikov from Crime and Punishment, despises it and justifies violent crime with this mentality. Wonderful works, both of them. Unlike many, I read TBK first and decided to read Dostoevsky's other works and fell in love. Notes from the underground will always hold a special spot in my heart because of how much I can relate to the protagonist unfortunately. Can anyone recommend other similar works of literature? I haven't read many books like this but I found Siddhartha, Narcissus and Goldmund and Steppenwolfe by Herman Hesse to be on the same lines (deal with existentialism).

jbattle 8y ago
I think you would like Dead Souls by Gogol. It has the same kind of biting criticism as the idiot, but it's a bit darker (if I remember right) - not as dark as C&P, but darker than the idiot
- urmish 8y ago
  Thanks. Yeah am not really looking for dark themes but as you said, 'biting criticism' of society and 'the human condition'
- darepublic 8y ago
  The idiot is darker than crime and punishment...
hcrisp 8y ago
Other existentialist works include: - "The Plague", by Albert Camus - "Metamorphisis", by Franz Kafka - "The Moviegoer", by Walker Percy - "The Bridge Over San Luis Rey", by Thornton Wilder I can't say they are enjoyable or relevant in the way Dostoevsky's books are.
- minieggs 8y ago
  If you enjoy these The Roads to Freedom series by Sartre I found great as well.
- wjn0 8y ago
  I found The Plague to be quite enjoyable, while I've struggled through Notes from Underground and The Idiot (the latter moreso because of its length). The Stranger and The Fall by Camus are also incredible, I hope to read all of them in their original French sometime soon.
- westoncb 8y ago
  I'll second "The Moviegoer." It's one of the best things I've read in a while, and I think there's a definite connection with 'Notes from Underground,' for instance. Both convincingly portray characters who are in certain ways despicable—more subtly with Moviegoer—and yet also relatable, especially in ways that derive from probably philosophically and/or socially induced mental conditions. If you've read The Stranger, I'd describe The Moviegoer as a deeper take on a similar subject, with a more interesting backdrop.
jackschultz 8y ago
Interesting timing, because I just started Notes from Underground yesterday. I have to say, I'm a really big fan of Russian literature for some reason. Crime and Punishment, to me, seemed pretty straightforward, where we knew the problems Raskolnikov was having, and pretty sure of the ending where he'd confess and be punished (clearly from the title). Whereas The Brothers Karamazov if I remember, was somewhat more of a non straightforward plot. Where the characters were slightly less straightforward. I checked on wiki and said that Crime and Punishment was fourteen years before Karamazov, 1866 to 1880. Besides Dostoevsky, I really liked a few of the Checkov short stories, and then Master and Margarita, which was written in the somewhat early 1900s. Not sure if those related to the existentialism you're talking about, but all unique. I think my main like of both of these, and books in general, is the ability to see how similar humans are from centuries ago, and in different cultures. With the feeling of desire to be punished, or in a Checkov story, falling out of love with a woman and not really knowing how to end things. Being able to see relationships and similar thoughts from completely different people is very comforting. Otherwise we all could be stuck in our heads thinking about how everyone is different from you, where we're all more alike than we think.
- urmish 8y ago
  Thank you, great suggestions. Adding it to my reading list.
- jnsaff2 8y ago
  I second Master and Margarita, epicly funny at times and more high energy but still very deep in it's approach to humanity.
joshjkim 8y ago
i immediately fell in love with dostoevsky's work (just finished my third read of TBK), but it took me a long time to get into david foster wallace - now, i think of them as very similar. DFW is known for a lot of things (long books, footnotes on footnotes, early death) but to me at the end of the day both infinite jest and the pale king (his posthumous novel) are both incredible works that ultimately deal with existentialism. what made me think of them esp. is your comparison of C&P (cynical) and the Idiot (optimistic). to me, infinite jest is the cynical but fun work (it's about a lot, but it's a lot about how people use drugs and entertainment and tennis(!) to (unsuccessfully) distract themselves from their larger existential problems), and pale king is the optimistic but more serious work (but with a strange reason for optimism, built in large part around the transcendence of being able to tolerate crazy boredom - it's a post-modern book about IRS employees for heaven's sake. there's a good dose of "we should probably be better citizens" - one of my fave sections describes how US taxpayers view themselves as "consumers of the government" vs. "participating citizens", digs really deep) i actually like pale king slightly more even tho it's posthumous. it's also shorter (500 vs. 1000), i'd highly recommend starting there, though since you did TBK first, maybe you can just jump into infinite jest no problem =)
- urmish 8y ago
  I gave up reading Infinite Jest after getting 10-15% into it. I decided to come back to it later but never got back to it. It was somewhat difficult for me (not American). But this was a few years ago. Will try it again sometime soon.
  - joshjkim 8y ago
    ya, i did the same, took a few tries - i actually ended up reading the pale king first, might be worth trying that. it's shorter (around 500 pages) and i think written in a more digestible/measured manner - still a DFW work, the plots are barely discernible until pretty late in the work but there's less gymnastics to the writing, i like to think because he was more mature at that point but maybe the editor played more of a role since it was posthumous, who knows!
- darepublic 8y ago
throwaway84742 8y ago
As a Russian, I don’t understand how Americans can “get into” Dostoevsky or Tolstoy. The cultural background required to understand them is simply not there, so you’re getting maybe 50% of what’s there, and that’s an optimistic estimate. Likewise, I’m not sure I fully understand Hemingway, Steinbeck, etc. I enjoy their work, to be sure, but I’m afraid not to the extent Americans enjoy it. Thus far I have not found an American novelist who would be anywhere near Dostoevsky or Tolstoy. My favorite US novel is “Grapes of Wrath”. Absolutely beatiful work when read in the language it was written in. My favorite Russian novel is “War and Peace”. Russian school children are forced to read it when they’re like 15, and they don’t get it, of course. After re-reading it at 40 I was blown away. Such immense depth, such masterful pacing and character development. I have recently re-read Crime and Punishment, another one of those books Russian school children are forced to read with no hope of understanding. I was likewise impressed with depth and sheer brutality of it. I wouldn’t say Raskolnikov hated the world. That’s not quite right, too black and white. Dostoevsky operates in the gray area. Raskolnikov was, at his core, a kind young man (see eg his empathy for Sonya), but an extreme nihilist, and he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, from which his nihilism offered him no escape. Struggling to reconcile his ideology with his humanity, he commits a stupid crime, for which his humanity makes him suffer immensely. If he really did despise everything, he would sleep well.
- dalacv 8y ago
  You are not the first Russian I have heard say that about Dostoevsky.
  - throwaway84742 8y ago
    That’s because Russians themselves find it difficult to fully contextualize Dostoevsky. A couple hundred years from now they may not be able to do so at all, and the full depth will become inaccessible to anybody other than historians of the period in which Dostoevsky lived. Russia is still similar enough to that so a Russian of today can fill in the gaps as she reads the books. Not just what happened, that part is trivial, but how the characters really _felt_.
sevagh 8y ago
I recently read Despair and Bend Sinister, both by Vladimir Nabokov, and enjoyed both greatly. David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest also deals with existentialism.
combatentropy 8y ago
I don't know, but I can't decide who I like more: Dostoevsky or Tolstoy. Have you read any Tolstoy? I loved Anna Karenina. It may be my favorite novel, period. Both writers are philosophical and psychological to a degree of depth and honesty that I'm just not used to.
- pkghost 8y ago
  If you haven't, try Ursula Le Guin. Her psychologies aren't rendered in quite as much detail as Dostoyevsky's—perhaps because she comes after and therefore needs to break less ground there?—but she's unique (in my experience of) sci-fi/fantasy for her deep grasp of and willingness to explore psychology, individually and collectively.
- urmish 8y ago
  I haven't. I've heard of it but didn't know it also as good (or better). Adding it to my reading list. Thanks.
coldtea 8y ago
>Can anyone recommend other similar works of literature? I haven't read many books like this but I found Siddhartha, Narcissus and Goldmund and Steppenwolfe by Herman Hesse to be on the same lines (deal with existentialism). If you enjoyed both Dostoyevsky, existentialism, and Hesse's work, you will like Colin Wilson's "The Outsider": https://www.amazon.com/Outsider-Exploration-Rebellion-Creativity-Cornerstone/dp/0399173102/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1525990066&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=the+outsider+colin+wilson https://www.amazon.com/Outsider-Exploration-Rebellion-Creati... which deals with both (and more) and expands on these concepts. Wilson ended up doing more fringe work, but this was his critically acclaimed initial foray into writing.
mping 8y ago
Do a deep dive on Saramago. You can start with Blindness. I'm biased because I'm from Portugal but the man was a genius. In the end you may leave with more questions than when you started the book,but you will be satisfied!

by urmish 8y ago

jbattle 8y ago

I think you would like Dead Souls by Gogol. It has the same kind of biting criticism as the idiot, but it's a bit darker (if I remember right) - not as dark as C&P, but darker than the idiot

urmish 8y ago
Thanks. Yeah am not really looking for dark themes but as you said, 'biting criticism' of society and 'the human condition'
darepublic 8y ago
The idiot is darker than crime and punishment...

hcrisp 8y ago

Other existentialist works include: - "The Plague", by Albert Camus - "Metamorphisis", by Franz Kafka - "The Moviegoer", by Walker Percy - "The Bridge Over San Luis Rey", by Thornton Wilder I can't say they are enjoyable or relevant in the way Dostoevsky's books are.

minieggs 8y ago
If you enjoy these The Roads to Freedom series by Sartre I found great as well.
wjn0 8y ago
I found The Plague to be quite enjoyable, while I've struggled through Notes from Underground and The Idiot (the latter moreso because of its length). The Stranger and The Fall by Camus are also incredible, I hope to read all of them in their original French sometime soon.
westoncb 8y ago
I'll second "The Moviegoer." It's one of the best things I've read in a while, and I think there's a definite connection with 'Notes from Underground,' for instance. Both convincingly portray characters who are in certain ways despicable—more subtly with Moviegoer—and yet also relatable, especially in ways that derive from probably philosophically and/or socially induced mental conditions. If you've read The Stranger, I'd describe The Moviegoer as a deeper take on a similar subject, with a more interesting backdrop.

jackschultz 8y ago

Interesting timing, because I just started Notes from Underground yesterday. I have to say, I'm a really big fan of Russian literature for some reason. Crime and Punishment, to me, seemed pretty straightforward, where we knew the problems Raskolnikov was having, and pretty sure of the ending where he'd confess and be punished (clearly from the title). Whereas The Brothers Karamazov if I remember, was somewhat more of a non straightforward plot. Where the characters were slightly less straightforward. I checked on wiki and said that Crime and Punishment was fourteen years before Karamazov, 1866 to 1880. Besides Dostoevsky, I really liked a few of the Checkov short stories, and then Master and Margarita, which was written in the somewhat early 1900s. Not sure if those related to the existentialism you're talking about, but all unique. I think my main like of both of these, and books in general, is the ability to see how similar humans are from centuries ago, and in different cultures. With the feeling of desire to be punished, or in a Checkov story, falling out of love with a woman and not really knowing how to end things. Being able to see relationships and similar thoughts from completely different people is very comforting. Otherwise we all could be stuck in our heads thinking about how everyone is different from you, where we're all more alike than we think.

urmish 8y ago
Thank you, great suggestions. Adding it to my reading list.
jnsaff2 8y ago
I second Master and Margarita, epicly funny at times and more high energy but still very deep in it's approach to humanity.

joshjkim 8y ago

i immediately fell in love with dostoevsky's work (just finished my third read of TBK), but it took me a long time to get into david foster wallace - now, i think of them as very similar. DFW is known for a lot of things (long books, footnotes on footnotes, early death) but to me at the end of the day both infinite jest and the pale king (his posthumous novel) are both incredible works that ultimately deal with existentialism. what made me think of them esp. is your comparison of C&P (cynical) and the Idiot (optimistic). to me, infinite jest is the cynical but fun work (it's about a lot, but it's a lot about how people use drugs and entertainment and tennis(!) to (unsuccessfully) distract themselves from their larger existential problems), and pale king is the optimistic but more serious work (but with a strange reason for optimism, built in large part around the transcendence of being able to tolerate crazy boredom - it's a post-modern book about IRS employees for heaven's sake. there's a good dose of "we should probably be better citizens" - one of my fave sections describes how US taxpayers view themselves as "consumers of the government" vs. "participating citizens", digs really deep) i actually like pale king slightly more even tho it's posthumous. it's also shorter (500 vs. 1000), i'd highly recommend starting there, though since you did TBK first, maybe you can just jump into infinite jest no problem =)

urmish 8y ago
I gave up reading Infinite Jest after getting 10-15% into it. I decided to come back to it later but never got back to it. It was somewhat difficult for me (not American). But this was a few years ago. Will try it again sometime soon.
- joshjkim 8y ago
  ya, i did the same, took a few tries - i actually ended up reading the pale king first, might be worth trying that. it's shorter (around 500 pages) and i think written in a more digestible/measured manner - still a DFW work, the plots are barely discernible until pretty late in the work but there's less gymnastics to the writing, i like to think because he was more mature at that point but maybe the editor played more of a role since it was posthumous, who knows!
darepublic 8y ago

throwaway84742 8y ago

As a Russian, I don’t understand how Americans can “get into” Dostoevsky or Tolstoy. The cultural background required to understand them is simply not there, so you’re getting maybe 50% of what’s there, and that’s an optimistic estimate. Likewise, I’m not sure I fully understand Hemingway, Steinbeck, etc. I enjoy their work, to be sure, but I’m afraid not to the extent Americans enjoy it. Thus far I have not found an American novelist who would be anywhere near Dostoevsky or Tolstoy. My favorite US novel is “Grapes of Wrath”. Absolutely beatiful work when read in the language it was written in. My favorite Russian novel is “War and Peace”. Russian school children are forced to read it when they’re like 15, and they don’t get it, of course. After re-reading it at 40 I was blown away. Such immense depth, such masterful pacing and character development. I have recently re-read Crime and Punishment, another one of those books Russian school children are forced to read with no hope of understanding. I was likewise impressed with depth and sheer brutality of it. I wouldn’t say Raskolnikov hated the world. That’s not quite right, too black and white. Dostoevsky operates in the gray area. Raskolnikov was, at his core, a kind young man (see eg his empathy for Sonya), but an extreme nihilist, and he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, from which his nihilism offered him no escape. Struggling to reconcile his ideology with his humanity, he commits a stupid crime, for which his humanity makes him suffer immensely. If he really did despise everything, he would sleep well.

dalacv 8y ago
You are not the first Russian I have heard say that about Dostoevsky.
- throwaway84742 8y ago
  That’s because Russians themselves find it difficult to fully contextualize Dostoevsky. A couple hundred years from now they may not be able to do so at all, and the full depth will become inaccessible to anybody other than historians of the period in which Dostoevsky lived. Russia is still similar enough to that so a Russian of today can fill in the gaps as she reads the books. Not just what happened, that part is trivial, but how the characters really _felt_.

sevagh 8y ago

I recently read Despair and Bend Sinister, both by Vladimir Nabokov, and enjoyed both greatly. David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest also deals with existentialism.

combatentropy 8y ago

I don't know, but I can't decide who I like more: Dostoevsky or Tolstoy. Have you read any Tolstoy? I loved Anna Karenina. It may be my favorite novel, period. Both writers are philosophical and psychological to a degree of depth and honesty that I'm just not used to.

pkghost 8y ago
If you haven't, try Ursula Le Guin. Her psychologies aren't rendered in quite as much detail as Dostoyevsky's—perhaps because she comes after and therefore needs to break less ground there?—but she's unique (in my experience of) sci-fi/fantasy for her deep grasp of and willingness to explore psychology, individually and collectively.
urmish 8y ago
I haven't. I've heard of it but didn't know it also as good (or better). Adding it to my reading list. Thanks.

coldtea 8y ago

>Can anyone recommend other similar works of literature? I haven't read many books like this but I found Siddhartha, Narcissus and Goldmund and Steppenwolfe by Herman Hesse to be on the same lines (deal with existentialism). If you enjoyed both Dostoyevsky, existentialism, and Hesse's work, you will like Colin Wilson's "The Outsider": https://www.amazon.com/Outsider-Exploration-Rebellion-Creativity-Cornerstone/dp/0399173102/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1525990066&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=the+outsider+colin+wilson https://www.amazon.com/Outsider-Exploration-Rebellion-Creati... which deals with both (and more) and expands on these concepts. Wilson ended up doing more fringe work, but this was his critically acclaimed initial foray into writing.

mping 8y ago

Do a deep dive on Saramago. You can start with Blindness. I'm biased because I'm from Portugal but the man was a genius. In the end you may leave with more questions than when you started the book,but you will be satisfied!