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Collectivism is hard coded in Chinese public education, kids are encouraged to hard work and make dedications to their native land in schools. The gov make idol

Collectivism is hard coded in Chinese public education, kids are encouraged to hard work and make dedications to their native land in schools. The gov make idols to worship like Jiao Yulu(焦裕禄) way before this working overtime issue (and Jiao died from overwork and liver disease) and making tv shows Touching China，a mandatory learning section for middle school students. With this premise it's not odd to me that criticizes are made.

8u23u0893290u 8y ago
Culture should be defined by the conversations and efforts of people applying their agency when and where they see fit Not forced by top-down elected officials put in office by wealthy elites If humanity wants to be lazy and not provide for each other, that's it's prerogative. And what's the point of doing all that if only other people are benefiting while you're toiling 72 hours? Nationalist pride "culture" is authoritarianism with a soft touch
stcredzero 8y ago
Here's what my Chinese wife says about all that. People go to a monthly meeting. You hear a "sermon" and sing some patriotic songs. Then people go on with their lives. Not everyone who goes to church necessarily really believes. Not everyone necessarily believed even in the 1800s. That said, the social/theocratic hegemony of western Christianity wasn't all good, but it also wasn't all bad. The same probably goes for the secular ideological "religion" you see in communist countries.
- supertiger 8y ago
  I grew up in China. What 'monthly meeting' (where 'you hear a "sermon" and sing some patriotic songs') is your wife talking about? That sounds bizarre
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    She's from Fujian. It was some kind of communist party community meeting.
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      Careful with generalizing. Southerners, and very especially Fujianese, are less patriotic than Chinese in other parts of China, especially the north.
      - virtuabhi 8y ago
        Careful with generalizing. Esp. with southerners in one bin, and northerners in the other bin.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Yeah. "The south" of China is quite a big and diverse place. My wife's dad is definitely patriotic!
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Sure. However, if South China and North China were actually different countries, you would notice a distinct differences in the trends between both. And if Fujian somehow became a part of Taiwan, you might not notice much difference in CPC support between the province and the island.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Fujian is quite isolated from the rest of China. Until the modern era, the easiest way to get there was by sea. And if Fujian somehow became a part of Taiwan Parts of Fujian are claimed by Taiwan.
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Fujianese are also the most emigrant Chinese, it is rare to find one there who doesn’t have more than a few relatives abroad. A special case to be sure.
      - sho 8y ago
        > Careful with generalizing Well, indeed. In my experience it varies very widely and pretty much follows the pattern you see everywhere else - intelligent, curious people with good job options tend to be less concerned with patriotism; the less fortunate find solace in it. The most loudly and irrationally patriotic chinese person I know is from guangzhou. Still wants to move away though of course, what's a little cognitive dissonance between friends?
- sho 8y ago
  That sounds like a meeting for party members, often people (or the families of people) angling for local government jobs. Of course there'll be some True Believers but the subtext is it's basically a networking event. So yes, definitely like Church ;)
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    My wife's dad is supposed to be quite patriotic. I think he's connected. (She's the youngest of 6 sisters. Note the policy implications.)
  - wollw 8y ago
    I find something ironic about this, but of course it's unfortunately true. Until last year my "Church" experience was mostly on and off spending time at a Buddhist monastery which was more about taking part in an isolated community and retreating from the world. Wanting to find something similar I started going to the local Anglican Church and being the studious kind of person I am decided to read the Book of Common Prayer, which includes the Articles of Religion[1] and in particular Articles XIII and XIV: Of Works before Justification & Of Works of Supererogation respectively. My understanding of it is that doing more work than needed is basically a Sin. Funny that until the mid-1800s these Articles were required for University students in Britain (and before Sir Isaac Newton students were I believe required to Ordain into the Church before Graduation). Part of me wishes they would make a come back. [1] http://anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html http://anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html XIV. Of Works of Supererogation. Voluntary Works besides, over and above, God's Commandments, which they call Works of Supererogation, cannot be taught without arrogancy and impiety: for by them men do declare, that they do not only render unto God as much as they are bound to do, but that they do more for his sake, than of bounden duty is required: whereas Christ saith plainly When ye have done all that are commanded to you, say, We are unprofitable servants.
    - sho 8y ago
      Oh it's definitely true. To the extent that I, an atheist with a long history of moving or being moved to random cities in which I know basically no-one, have seriously considered going to church there - just to get some social interaction and maybe even friends in a self-selecting group of vaguely judeo-christian tradition, active, gregarious people who might even be interested in bettering themselves, philosophy and making the world a better place. Damn, I'm talking myself into it again. And that's an interesting quote. Perhaps that rule would be better reinstated.

8u23u0893290u 8y ago

Culture should be defined by the conversations and efforts of people applying their agency when and where they see fit Not forced by top-down elected officials put in office by wealthy elites If humanity wants to be lazy and not provide for each other, that's it's prerogative. And what's the point of doing all that if only other people are benefiting while you're toiling 72 hours? Nationalist pride "culture" is authoritarianism with a soft touch

stcredzero 8y ago

Here's what my Chinese wife says about all that. People go to a monthly meeting. You hear a "sermon" and sing some patriotic songs. Then people go on with their lives. Not everyone who goes to church necessarily really believes. Not everyone necessarily believed even in the 1800s. That said, the social/theocratic hegemony of western Christianity wasn't all good, but it also wasn't all bad. The same probably goes for the secular ideological "religion" you see in communist countries.

supertiger 8y ago
I grew up in China. What 'monthly meeting' (where 'you hear a "sermon" and sing some patriotic songs') is your wife talking about? That sounds bizarre
- stcredzero 8y ago
  She's from Fujian. It was some kind of communist party community meeting.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    Careful with generalizing. Southerners, and very especially Fujianese, are less patriotic than Chinese in other parts of China, especially the north.
    - virtuabhi 8y ago
      Careful with generalizing. Esp. with southerners in one bin, and northerners in the other bin.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        Yeah. "The south" of China is quite a big and diverse place. My wife's dad is definitely patriotic!
      - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Sure. However, if South China and North China were actually different countries, you would notice a distinct differences in the trends between both. And if Fujian somehow became a part of Taiwan, you might not notice much difference in CPC support between the province and the island.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Fujian is quite isolated from the rest of China. Until the modern era, the easiest way to get there was by sea. And if Fujian somehow became a part of Taiwan Parts of Fujian are claimed by Taiwan.
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Fujianese are also the most emigrant Chinese, it is rare to find one there who doesn’t have more than a few relatives abroad. A special case to be sure.
    - sho 8y ago
      > Careful with generalizing Well, indeed. In my experience it varies very widely and pretty much follows the pattern you see everywhere else - intelligent, curious people with good job options tend to be less concerned with patriotism; the less fortunate find solace in it. The most loudly and irrationally patriotic chinese person I know is from guangzhou. Still wants to move away though of course, what's a little cognitive dissonance between friends?
sho 8y ago
That sounds like a meeting for party members, often people (or the families of people) angling for local government jobs. Of course there'll be some True Believers but the subtext is it's basically a networking event. So yes, definitely like Church ;)
- stcredzero 8y ago
  My wife's dad is supposed to be quite patriotic. I think he's connected. (She's the youngest of 6 sisters. Note the policy implications.)
- wollw 8y ago
  I find something ironic about this, but of course it's unfortunately true. Until last year my "Church" experience was mostly on and off spending time at a Buddhist monastery which was more about taking part in an isolated community and retreating from the world. Wanting to find something similar I started going to the local Anglican Church and being the studious kind of person I am decided to read the Book of Common Prayer, which includes the Articles of Religion[1] and in particular Articles XIII and XIV: Of Works before Justification & Of Works of Supererogation respectively. My understanding of it is that doing more work than needed is basically a Sin. Funny that until the mid-1800s these Articles were required for University students in Britain (and before Sir Isaac Newton students were I believe required to Ordain into the Church before Graduation). Part of me wishes they would make a come back. [1] http://anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html http://anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html XIV. Of Works of Supererogation. Voluntary Works besides, over and above, God's Commandments, which they call Works of Supererogation, cannot be taught without arrogancy and impiety: for by them men do declare, that they do not only render unto God as much as they are bound to do, but that they do more for his sake, than of bounden duty is required: whereas Christ saith plainly When ye have done all that are commanded to you, say, We are unprofitable servants.
  - sho 8y ago
    Oh it's definitely true. To the extent that I, an atheist with a long history of moving or being moved to random cities in which I know basically no-one, have seriously considered going to church there - just to get some social interaction and maybe even friends in a self-selecting group of vaguely judeo-christian tradition, active, gregarious people who might even be interested in bettering themselves, philosophy and making the world a better place. Damn, I'm talking myself into it again. And that's an interesting quote. Perhaps that rule would be better reinstated.