5 ms·

gosh this sounds like a revolution in the cooking state, is this totally true? maybe not that bad I hope. the big problems are the debt and the house bubble, o

• imglorp 8y ago
  Last time they stood up to speak, 10,000 students were murdered in public to make an example. They might think twice now.
  • merpnderp 8y ago
    Except that history isn't taught in China.
  • stevenwoo 8y ago
    If the government suppresses the history of the event in China, how are the protesters of tomorrow supposed to know to think twice?
    • qiqing 8y ago
      Actually, everyone knows about it and people talk very openly about it off the record, but no one is willing to talk about it in a recorded medium with a Westerner.
      • ausjke 8y ago
        don't think people born after 90's have any idea of those, or 99% of them have no idea whatsoever, so yes, history can be revised at will, at least in the short term.
  • Install_Gentoo 8y ago
    btw, those students were communists protesting the privatization of collective farms among other things under Deng.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • yorwba 8y ago
      In an authoritarian state, any spontaneous popular movement is dangerous to the leadership, even if it aligns with their nominal aims (maybe especially then). The CCP has been "Communist" in name only for a long time, but Deng Xiaopings market reforms were probably the most obvious breaking point. It's not unsurprising that students who had been taught about the inevitable victory of Communism would protest against this change of course, especially given the surrounding economic instability. Although Communism and Democracy are frequently seen as opposites in the West, Chinese propaganda doesn't hesitate to claim Democracy for themselves (there are elections after all) and volunteering in various state-adjacent organizations is encouraged. From the point of view of an upstanding party member, organizing a student rally probably seemed like the right thing to do, in good old revolutionary tradition.
  • l33tbro 8y ago
    Indeed. They also didn't have the omnipresent surveillance back in 1989. Hard to imagine how the student movement back then would have gained momentum using today's communication tools (with the government backdoors and all). Surveillance and an all-powerful regime has well and truly snookered the Chinese, and it seems their autonomy will not improve for a very long time.
• madeofpalk 8y ago
  Not sure if I'm missing sarcasm or anything, but this sounds like the exact same problem as everywhere else in the world.
  • 0xffff2 8y ago
    Really? Which parts of that apply to any western country? The US (where I live) certainly has its problems, but none of the things described by the original comment apply widely in the US.
    • ionised 8y ago
      The surveillance of citizens and credit scores don't apply to the US? Or the obscene ballooning of rents without a corresponding increase in wage? Absurd overtime expectations?
      • eeZah7Ux 8y ago
        Spot on. US introduced credit scores even before China.
      • adventured 8y ago
        > The surveillance of citizens and credit scores don't apply to the US? Strawman. Your credit score won't legally lock you out of being able to fly in the US and is not a government punishment enforced through violence. Surveillance in the US is not similar to the extreme oppression occurring in China and the almost complete lack of freedom of speech, freedom of demonstration, freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and freedom of press. This HN forum can't exist in China. > Absurd overtime expectations? Nope. The US works about as many hours as New Zealand, which is not infamous for very punishing work hours. It sits at the OECD average and is comparable to Italy and Canada. > Or the obscene ballooning of rents without a corresponding increase in wage? Non-qualified setup. That entirely depends on where you live and what your job is. If you're trying to be a janitor in San Francisco, you have a problem. Most of the US is not in fact outrageously expensive, it's quite reasonable.
  • 8y ago
• codedokode 8y ago
  It might be a revolution if people previously had better living conditions. But for country like China it probably looks like a big success and people want stability and not changes.
• adinobro 8y ago
  No it isn't actually true. Roughly 80% of Chinese people are happy with the direction the country is going vs 40% in the USA. Most people don't care about censorship and the ones that do can get around it. From their point of view, it is no different to the NSA or the cameras in the UK (way more than China). Most Chinese people I know own a house (more like a shack) BUT it is out in the countryside. They want to move to the city where apartments are more expensive and there are more opportunities. They look at their parent's life and their life is a lot better. The ones that have enough money (not all of them) generally move to another country since they can afford it. The ones without money don't care. The pollution is bad but at the same time China is putting more money into green energy than any other country. Every bus in the cities are being sent to the country or scrapped and replaced with electric busses (more than every other country combined). As far as the debt goes it is something they worry about. At the same time, it is lower than the USA debt. The housing bubble is also an issue but they are building millions of apartments unlike other cities in the world. Basically, the working class is currently better off but they have the same problem that the USA has right now. Lots of students graduating from universities without enough high paying jobs to match. Technology scales really well so you don't need a lot of workers. You need a lot of low paid works ... same as in other countries.
  • adventured 8y ago
    > Roughly 80% of Chinese people are happy with the direction the country is going vs 40% in the USA. An obviously fraudulent setup. There are very few things you can get 80% of people to agree on unless they feel compelled to agreement. The Chinese people no longer possess the ability to dissent. What little ability they had to do so, briefly, has been wiped out in the last five years under the new dictatorship. Your China reference is as legitimate as Putin's approval rating.
    • alehul 8y ago
      As an American with family in Russia, I think you're underestimating the conformity of opinion developed in countries that aren't America. We're unique in the amount of diverse cultures and perspectives that we have in large numbers, and we're constantly fighting with one-another, and we hold polar opposite views. If you look at a country like Sweden, arguments amount to "Should we give more financial assistance to refugees, or to the elderly?". Their environmental regulations, their high welfare state, their criminal law... None of that is ever debated, because they're all in near-unanimous agreement. Russia is similar but leaning conservative, and they view Putin as the person who can accomplish their national goals and uphold their conservative values. This is how most of the rest of the world exists, and children in those countries are very likely to continue that trend, given that it's all they're exposed to. 80% approval is totally believable, with that in mind.