22 ms·

You can now run Linux apps on Chrome OS

585 points by willsinclair 8y ago

fareesh 8y ago
Are there any good reasons why a developer would buy a Chromebook over some other laptop, unless they are developing for the Chromebook itself?
- romanovcode 8y ago
  Chromebooks are cheap.
  - fareesh 8y ago
    I wouldn't call $999 cheap
    - pavanky 8y ago
      I needed a machine to ssh from and have a browser. $250 acer chromebook with crouton mostly works. This is not my primary machine however. I only use it at home to ssh into my desktop once in a while.
      - terminalcommand 8y ago
        On this price range, are there any advantages of using a Chromebook rather than purchasing an old refurbished business laptop such as x230? They seem to be going for the same price range.
        youllknow 8y ago
        because x230 is ugly pos, heavy, big while buttons still feel cramped and has bad battery life (compared to any new chromebooks)
        vuln 8y ago
        I daily a x220. It's perfect.
        tluyben2 8y ago
        Same here; lot of battery life too under Ubuntu/i3.
        tluyben2 8y ago
        With the 9 cell I get easily 15 hours while developing. Not sure which Chromebooks you are talking about. But I prefer the x220 over the 230. Haven't tried the 240 which is now starting to get cheap second hand here.
        sowbug 8y ago
        Same as at any price range: security and managed updates.
        mattbreeden 8y ago
        Weight, battery life, fan usage
        pavanky 8y ago
        not sure what the battery life on x230 is. I usually get 6-7 hours atleast on my current chromebook. Besides this was an impulse purchase. I was tired of my home laptop and wanted something so I went to best buy and purchased it within half an hour. I can't say the same for x230.
- puzzle 8y ago
  Security.
- alephnan 8y ago
  Aesthetics of the Chromebook Pixel
- ansible 8y ago
  I have been using a Chromebook as my daily driver for nearly 2 years now. Most of the time, I'm either at home or at work, so I just remote log into my development systems. I, personally, don't really need to lug around my entire development environment, though I used to be in that school of thought. So, given that I really just need SSH, a decent Chromebook is cheap (as others mentioned), and can have a decent keyboard with long battery life. The one I have is around 1kg, so it is very "handy", and I carry it everywhere, as I would have a notepad in earlier days.
  - fareesh 8y ago
    I'm trying to setup something similar - do you use Wake on LAN to turn the computer on? Or do you leave it on? Do you have a static IP or do you use some kind of dynamic DNS service?
    - markvdb 8y ago
      No static ip or dyndns needed if you use autossh.
    - ansible 8y ago
      My workstations are on 24/7 (the one at home runs some other services like a media server) with static IP addresses.
- hawski 8y ago
  Cheap and lightweight, but of reasonable quality. You'll get Linux out of the box. Effortless updates. Lots of battery life - my Chromebook came with 13 hours of battery and it is a few years old machine at this point.
- hutzlibu 8y ago
  Sadly ... driver Support. The main reason for me - standby and resume allways work and not only mostly ...
  - rocky1138 8y ago
    Take a look at System76. They make Linux laptops and have full hardware/driver support out of the box. https://system76.com/ https://system76.com/
    - hutzlibu 8y ago
      I think I did checked them out. But I have a special use case, need Touchscreen, long batery life, rugged, small, lightweight ( ...for hiking and working Outdoor) Asus C213 was a perfect fit. Otherwise there are only windows devices avaiable with terrible linux Driver support at the moment.
- greghendershott 8y ago
  It can make sense if you're developing for Linux -- for instance web apps that will run on Linux in production. It can also make sense if you like physical function keys and/or a touch screen larger than a function key row. :) I used a Chromebook Pixel with Crouton very happily for a year. Granted I spend 95% of my time in Emacs and a web browser.
- ISL 8y ago
  It has been an inexpensive and reliable crouton linux box. The hardware support has been really nice, as a lot of the usual linux fiddling required to support monitors, etcetera has been much easier with the intermediate chromeOS layer.
- city41 8y ago
  MacBooks are out for me now that they have the touchbar and bad keyboard. I currently use a ThinkPad and it's pretty good, but the touchpad is mediocre at best. I think a ChromeBook with really first class support for Linux apps is very compelling. I run Linux in a VM on Windows 10 on my ThinkPad and it's a great setup. A ChromeBook would be a very similar setup but probably with better native OS integration (for example they are exposing the Linux filesystem in ChromeOS's file browser) and this would all be a first class use case supported by Google.
  - xfer 8y ago
    You mean pixelbook, $300 chromebooks would obviously be of poor build quality; although i am not sure of the hardware quality of pixelbook either. For me a thinkpad works pretty well for a linux machine.
    - city41 8y ago
      Yeah I am thinking mostly nicer ChromeBooks. But the nicer ChromeBooks compete quite well with ThinkPads, price-wise.
    - johnvaluk 8y ago
      FWIW, I have an Acer ChromeBook I bought for $99 brand new on Black Friday a couple of years ago. I have about 20 laptops at my disposal (including ThinkPads and MacBook Pros) but I use this one the most. The build quality is surprisingly good and the battery lasts forever. I installed Linux on it after replacing the firmware, but I'm excited that Crostini might make this unnecessary on other ChromeBooks (and maybe even this model). A very important bonus of Crostini is that it will not be necessary to put the machine in developer mode.
    - mattbreeden 8y ago
      I have a Dell Chromebook 13 and the build quality is fantastic. It's my favorite laptop out of last gen Macbook Air, Dell XPS 13, Thinkpad, and Razer Blade. The keyboard on it is the only one that doesn't hurt my fingers to type on.
    - 8y ago
- wilsonnb 8y ago
  The Chromebook Pixel has a 3:2 screen. As far as I know only Huawei and Microsoft sell 3:2 laptops so it doesn't have much competition in that regard.
  - vatueil 8y ago
    The Samsung Chromebook Plus/Pro also have 3:2 screens, same size and resolution as the Google Pixelbook (probably the same display panel). Though those are also Chrome OS devices, of course.
    - vatueil 8y ago
      Forgot to mention the new HP Chromebook X2 also shares the same display specs: https://chromeunboxed.com/hp-unveils-worlds-first-detachable-chromebook/ https://chromeunboxed.com/hp-unveils-worlds-first-detachable...
- turtlebits 8y ago
  It's a cheap more portable 2nd laptop. I much prefer it over a tablet. While the screen resolution on mine is pretty bad (768p 11"), I actually bring it around with me and am able to do elixir development with Termux.
- kstenerud 8y ago
  You can install GalliumOS [1] on a Chromebook for a full Debian-based Linux experience. I dual boot mine for certain apps I can't run under ChromeOS, but I'll be perfectly happy to stay in Chrome land once this Linux app thing gets pushed out to my chrmebook. For the most part, I'm doing heavy lifting on other machines I remote log into (graphical or shell). I've got LXC and KVM scripts [2] to spin up virtual Windows, MacOS, or Linux machines as dev environments on any Linux host, and then connect using ssh, x2go, or Chrome Remote Desktop. With this setup, I can comfortably do without a beefy laptop, and don't need to worry about taking proprietary/sensitive data through an airport. [1] https://galliumos.org/ https://galliumos.org/ [2] https://github.com/kstenerud/virtual-builders https://github.com/kstenerud/virtual-builders
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    No need now with support built in and have much better security versus using GalliumOS.
- petecox 8y ago
  One device to rule them all? The promise of Ubuntu Convergence and Windows Continuum on a single piece of hardware, solving the "app gap" with Android support - the best of the web, Android and one's choice of Linux desktop. An ultrabook/iPad substitute - "power users" requiring a 32GB Core i7 desktop replacement might look elsewhere, naturally.
- iamnothere 8y ago
  Here are my own reasons: 1. The security model is fantastic compared to the alternatives. DIY security is an endless distraction these days unless it's your full-time job. I am concerned that the team may not be able to keep things so secure as the complexity of Chrome OS increases, but as a starting point it's still the most secure commercial OS out there. 2. Little to no setup. Boot it up, log in, and you're ready. (And now, I guess, install whatever Linux apps you want.) This makes it easy to recover from hardware failure, even if you're on the road. Just go take one off the shelf, no worries about installation, configuration, etc. 3. Disposability. Most Chromebooks are incredibly cheap. If it breaks or if you lose it, it's not the end of the world. 4. Easy, safe sharing. If someone needs to borrow a computer to check their email, you can log out and hand it to them. Your stuff is securely encrypted, and the system is hardened against compromise. This may not be a big deal for everyone, but it brings me great peace of mind!
timvisee 8y ago
I wonder why they are using a VM running Debian for Linux applications, as Chrome OS is already Linux (Gentoo) based itself.
- bergie 8y ago
  Sandboxing
- rukittenme 8y ago
  If I had to guess its because they want to move to their own proprietary systems and don't want to support backwards compatibility with "native" linux applications.
  - derefr 8y ago
    Exactly–ChromeOS being Linux-based is, at this point, an implementation detail. No ChromeOS "apps" depend on that fact, because they all run under their own VMs or ABI sandboxes. This means that Google could make a Fuchsia-based ChromeOS and nothing in userland (save for the code of those VMs and sandboxes) would have to change.
    - hutzlibu 8y ago
      Isn't Fuchsia OS as well, kust no GPL?
      - esprehn 8y ago
        Fuschia doesn't contain any Linux at all, hidden or otherwise. There's a compat layer you can run on top, but it's closer to the Windows subsystem for Linux than Chrome OS.
      - vatueil 8y ago
        Yes, various parts use BSD/MIT/Apache licenses, e.g.: https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/docs/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/docs/blob/master/LICENSE That said, parent comments seem to be talking about two different topics. Later comment about Google switching the underlying foundation of Chrome OS from Linux to Fuchsia sounds plausible, while earlier comment complaining about Fuchsia being proprietary is nonsense.
deft 8y ago
This is cool! I won't be stuck with hterm and the bugs that have always been present in it any more :)
jphalimi 8y ago
"Google’s PM director for Chrome OS Kan Liu told me the company was obviously aware that people were using Crouton to do this before. But doing this also meant doing away with all of the security features that come with Google’s operating system." I don't know if I am the only one, but this one made me laugh.
- iodiniemetra 8y ago
  Yes, disabling signed boot and allowing untrusted, unsandboxed code is what sets chromebooks apart from the competition. Of course, you can do away with these checks by entering developer mode.
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    Plus the automatic updating and even done in the background. Just pick it up next reboot. True story. Son was turning his Win PC off for the night and it indicated do not shut off as updating. Told him just leave it on for the night. Wake up in the morning and still do not turn off updating. Just a terrible UX. I am a huge fan of CBs. Now GNU/Linux support makes it that much better.
JepZ 8y ago
I wish they would also offer some runtime environment to run Android apps on a normal Linux (e.g. Debian/Arch). And no, I am not talking about some weird, full size VM with a few Gigs of ram overhead. But since the business case seems to be missing, I will probably have to wait forever ;-)
- beagle3 8y ago
  Anbox[0] already does that. It's not official, it's not from Google, it's not perfect, but .. it works, and integrates the android apps into your system (does not have a weird VM or few gigs of ram overhead). [0] https://anbox.io/ https://anbox.io/
hutzlibu 8y ago
I only dived in crouton etc. for a short view, but I think the main reason why I did not continue (besides that it was messy) was the lack of GPU rendering (I believe there was none, at least for my ARM Modell) Is this going to be different with this approach?
- glibgil 8y ago
  Yes, https://chromeunboxed.com/news/chromebook-crostini-containers-gpu-support/ https://chromeunboxed.com/news/chromebook-crostini-container...
  - hutzlibu 8y ago
    Ok.. now it is good news for me ;)
- Filligree 8y ago
  OpenGL already works via llvmpipe, but of course that's software. It's enough to run some applications, though. And yes, virtio-gpu is coming.
totallysnowman 8y ago
Neat! So now you can run JavaScript "IDE" inside a browser inside a Linux VM inside a browser on Linux!
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  While running a Windows app through Wine inside....
- ovao 8y ago
  "Yo dawg, I herd u like browsers..."
  - jmiller099 8y ago
    lol, awesome
  - ghego1 8y ago
    Well said sir, well said indeed.
- ulyssesgrant 8y ago
  is chrome OS still considered a browser if it's providing a VM for non-javascript applications?
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    Never thought ChromeOS was a browser. Plus already had Android support.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    Chrome is a browser. Chrome OS is, as the name suggests, an OS.
tinix 8y ago
Tech journalists, especially, almost always fail to do even a tiny bit of research or due diligence. I mean... Crostini is not "new", it's been on dev channel for months[1]! But this article ending... hilarious icing on the cake. > "Now, it’s probably only a matter of hours before somebody starts running Windows apps in Chrome OS with the help of the Wine emulator." Someone should also tell them about running Crossover on Chrome OS via Android[2], which has already been possible for months! [1] https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/879173 https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/87... [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.codeweavers.cxoffice https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.codeweaver...
- zitterbewegung 8y ago
  To be honest if the manufacturer is misleading you that you have to do secondary research then why go to the event at all. I agree they should have done their due dilligence but at this time since no one values the written word nearly everyone is just taking some press release and cut and pasting it. On the other hand I have seen products being launched at Google I/O and being non existant for months. Tensorflow lite took months to come out. Why would you do this? Real artists ship and I don't get why you would announce something and have an indefinite launch date? By the time tensorflow lite came out Apple had coreml out for months and was somewhat usable.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  While they're at it, they could discuss what WINE is, and more specifically, what it is not ;)
  - tinix 8y ago
    Oh my gosh, I was so annoyed by their utter lack of competency that I didn't even catch that they did call it an emulator. Classic.
  - sp332 8y ago
    That's funny, but just because it says it's not an emulator... Well, see this page where it used to be short for Windows Emulator. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/windows-emulation/wine-faq/ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/windows-emulation/wine-faq/
z3t4 8y ago
I guess "web apps" are not as successful as Google hoped. There are some great web apps, but they are electron apps ... Maybe bake in "elevated" mode in Chrome so it basically becomes Electron, but with some kernel hooks to limit an apps abilities and let users pick what the app is able to access, network, hdd, etc.
- pier25 8y ago
  You are missing the point. This is purely intended for advanced users. Web apps and Android apps are more than fine for the large majority of Chrome OS users.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Google has 60% of K12 in the US coming decades later than Apple and MS and a fail?
  - z3t4 8y ago
    It's kinda insane! what apps are they using !?
    - jacksmith21006 8y ago
      Google Docs, sheets, slides, and a big one is Google Classroom. But what I like is the analytics. It is all about taking the gut out of matching students and teachers. I have 8 kids and you get a link with everything broken down by kid and can drill down.
chrisfarms 8y ago
I'm really happy Google are giving a go at making ChromeOS into something more than browser on steroids. I really believe this is a path to a decent Linux Desktop future. I'm def considering getting a pixelbook for my main machine this year now.
hs86 8y ago
How does Chrome OS and its display server compare security-wise to a regular GNU/Linux distribution? Is each desktop application going to live in its own sandbox?
paultopia 8y ago
I think this is great. I bought a chromebook flip a couple of years ago, with the intention of putting Linux on it---only to find that the hardware is depressingly bad and the ARM processor makes the Linux experience terrible (had to install Arch, never did manage to make basic things like the JVM work right, eventually gave up on it). Since then, I've been very skeptical of the notion of buying chromebooks as cheap and lightweight mobile working tools. But I will buy a pixelbook in an instant if I can get a fully functional, no bullshit with having to install custom kernels or new firmware or god only knows what and what will happen to the hardware and what just won't work despite The Internet insisting it does, insisting! Oh Lordy. A Linux environment available on decent hardware, without having to MacGyver it together with bubble gum and safety pins? Where things like power management actually work? What other options are there, really, for that? Purism? Dell XPS13! All of those are actually more expensive than the Pixelbook. (Though the Dell thing does look pretty sweet.) Hell, I may go order one now.
- jmagoon 8y ago
  The other good thing about this is that the Pixelbook is a 3:2 screen, so finally there's a laptop with a proper display resolution that can run Linux nicely. There's a good community of folks over at https://www.reddit.com/r/Crostini/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Crostini/ who have been tinkering with this for quite some time.
  - mschuster91 8y ago
    > with a proper display resolution 3:2? No thanks I don't really want black bars when watching movies... What I'd really really like is something with the build quality (especially the touchpad!) of a MacBook Pro, with decent and recent hardware, first class Linux support for all features, support for both USB-C and "old" USB and a decent keyboard with it. And that without paying more than for an technologically outdated yet still top-of-the-line MBP...
    - lallysingh 8y ago
      So a thinkpad.
indescions_2018 8y ago
More details in XDA Developers interview with Kan Liu. Also suggesting GPU acceleration support later this year https://www.xda-developers.com/chrome-os-linux-app-support-google-pixelbook/ https://www.xda-developers.com/chrome-os-linux-app-support-g... My prediction: VS Code / Pixelbook becomes a formidable devenv for many in the coming months ;) You can always try Neverware on a live usb to get a taste https://www.neverware.com/freedownload https://www.neverware.com/freedownload
- solarkraft 8y ago
  The ironic thing is that VS Code is made in web technology.
  - gcb0 8y ago
    linux -> android -> browser -> linux -> browser -> VS
    - microcolonel 8y ago
      Not exactly, it's more like +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Linux kernel + Android kernel bits | | | | | | | | Various and sundry | | | | | | | | Wayland compositor -----------------------------+ | | | | | | | | | | Wayland browser windows Wayland surfaces proxied from Qemu-KVM | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
  - avip 8y ago
    I've missed the irony here.
- 8y ago
segmondy 8y ago
But would these cost $200 like the original chromebooks? The entire sell of Chromebooks to me was that they were really cheap. The newer models tend to cost as much as a macbook.
- bergie 8y ago
  There are both cheap and expensive Chromebooks available. So the main change is that now you have mid- and high-range Chromebooks _alongside_ the cheap ones, depending what you prefer
johnvega 8y ago
This is great. I've been exploring Chromebook for the first time, but immediately got it in dev mode, then installed ubuntu gnome using crouton (chroot). Then installed golang and vscode, chrome and firefox browsers, and some tweaking for keyboard. It's been okay for several weeks. I can switch back to ChromeOS and have TeamViewer and Windows Remote Desktop to access more powerful computers at home or VMs from the cloud. Long battery life, fanless, (Acer 14 full hd) good stuff, great experience overall, but it looks like it will get better.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Acer 14 is an excellent machine. We have a bunch of them as have 8 kids and not had a single issue with a machine. I hand them to my kid and to not hear back which is my ideal. I am the house admin even though never applied for the job. Purchased all Acer refurb for about $200 USD. One was $180. You just can not get any other laptop that is all metal, peppy performance, incredible security, etc for so cheap.
ryanpcmcquen 8y ago
This is a great and unexpected move by Google.
tambourine_man 8y ago
You hear that Adobe? You now have a lot of potential costumers to sell your Creative Cloud package to. I bet those Chromebooks are selling like hot cakes and many schools would love to offer training for your tools. As a side benefit, you'd get a lot of neglected Pro Apple costumers (well, one at least), which would love to use some blessed by Adobe Linux distro. Also… >…meaning that even less powerful machines should be able to handle a code editor without issues. Being able to run a code editor is a statement of a machine's power and system optimization? Welcome to the wonderful world of Electron apps. >…Wine emulator Wine is not an emulator, for crying out loud.
- pier25 8y ago
  I seriously doubt Adobe will release Linux apps, ever. They hardly can keep up with Mac and Windows...
  - omeid2 8y ago
    The tide is shifting, I thought Microsoft would never endorser Linux, but here we are with at least two three version of Microsoft Linux.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Because they need devs on Azure and their IoT offerings. Adobe will do pretty fine with Windows and OS X customers.
    - jacksmith21006 8y ago
      Prefer this GNu/Linux implementation. Far more secure.
- simonh 8y ago
  >Wine is not an emulator, for crying out loud To those of us that used it back when Wine officially stood for Windows Emulator, people nowadays getting all upset on this point is an ever green source of amusement.
owaislone 8y ago
Ever since I bought a Samsung Chromebook Plus for a friend and had a week to play with it, I've wanted Google to do this. This is probably my favourite announcement from I/O this year. I love how simple and well designed Chrome OS is. Now I can get proper access to all the tools I'm used to on Linux while not having to deal with terrible UX when it comes to things like notifications, daily schedule, calendar and mail. This to me looks like the perfect balance between running Linux and macOS. I'm running Kubuntu on a 1 year old XPS 13 and most things work quite well. I do however miss a nice mail clients, reliable notifications about meetings, daily schedule, etc. I've tried almost everything available on Linux and while some things do work, they either are not reliable enough (with cloud APIs, etc) or are too ugly and clunky to use. I'll wait for the next Pixelbook before jumping ship. Hopefully, Linux apps support would have matured enough by then.
- nambit 8y ago
  Evolution is an ok'ish mail client. Notifications should be reliable enough?
- nine_k 8y ago
  An open gmail tab solves the problem of an email client.
- konschubert 8y ago
  I recently discovered "mailspring" as a snap package in the software center. It's quite a powerful and polished mail app. The disadvantage is that it breaks down on me sometimes and by default it adds tracking features to your email, so you'll have to turn that off.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Same. Have a Pixel book and love having the same OS as the cloud.
williamstein 8y ago
Will this make it possible to run Docker in a Chromebook? With Crouton, which is just a chroot, you can't run Docker at all (without changing the ChromeOS kernel), and can only run rkt containers. If this new Linux apps support really runs in a Debian KVM virtual machine, then maybe it will be possible to run Docker in that, which would be a massive advantage over what crouton provides. Anybody know?
- seabrookmx 8y ago
  I'm curious about this as well. I was toying with the idea of setting up my docker cli in crouton to connect to a docker daemon I host via a VPS (cheap Lightsail box maybe). I think this will work fine.. it's just the docker daemon that won't run because the ChromeOS kernel locks it out of features it needs. Then I could do local dev but any docker calls would run remotely. But I'm sure that will have its quirks.. if I could run lightweight containers (node, redis, etc) directly on my Chromebook then I'd prefer that.
- thesandlord 8y ago
  Yes, you can run Docker. Source: I've been testing Crostini for a while now, and Docker works great!
  - williamstein 8y ago
    Thanks! This is really fantastic news!
- nickjj 8y ago
  I've been running Docker on my Chromebook for years. I just installed GalliumOS on it (a native Linux OS tuned for Chromebooks). It works really well.
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    Better approach, I'm, is use Crouton. Just have to use rkt to launch the containers. Now not necessary to even use developer.
darren0 8y ago
I've been playing with crosvm and containers (lxd) in ChromeOS for awhile and I've been very impressed at the technical expertise that has been required to bring this to ChromeOS. Now that the terminal app is released I can say (I have a pixelbook and am currently using it), the user experience is really quite slick. This is a very promising platform.
gyrgtyn 8y ago
can we access network / tun/tap stuff?
newnewpdro 8y ago
I assume the reason this is being abstracted behind a VM where the app must bring not just a userspace but its own kernel is because Chrome OS is about to become Fuchsia, and the only vestige of Linux on the future Chrome OS devices will be in a VM for niche applications. Hooray. This isn't more Linux, this is a compatibility step towards less Linux being spun as something else.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  What? If the Linux support remains how is it "less Linux"? Linux is embedded inside ChromeOS and could be Fred and nobody would know any difference. The complaining on HN is becoming just baffling. seems for the sake of just complaining. We finally have a machine that support GNU/Linux applications out of the box and from the UI standpoint basically a first class citizen. But the most secure GNU/Linux machine you can get. Honestly there is no reason the same technique being used by Google could not have been also done by MS and/or Apple. Could even have been a standard. Click, container comes down, spins up, do what you need, disappears. It is a bit insane we have basically the same hardware for Windows, Macs and ChromeOS and we make each different in the OS. I get some CBs are ARM but really not as common as people think.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    It's less Linux because this is another step towards Chrome OS devices not running any Linux at all except for in niche situations, and in those cases only as a VM. The decision to use a VM is the telling part. If they were committed to Linux as the underlying kernel in Chrome OS this would just use process-level isolation like containers. When measured in terms of number of devices actually running a Linux kernel on physical hardware, in a post-Fuchsia Chrome OS world there will be less Linux kernels executing on devices at the bare metal, according to my prediction. Between this and Android pivoting to Fuchsia, the number of non-server devices executing Linux kernels on physical hardware will have dropped substantially. For anyone who values having a well-supported GPL kernel with maintained and modern hardware drivers as an option it should be viewed as incrementally more bad news. Microsoft and WSL is another facet of this attack on the Linux kernel. By providing a way to run a Linux userspace directly from existing proprietary Windows installs, they remove a bulk of the impetus a Windows user may have had to attempt running the Linux kernel directly on their physical hardware. We're headed towards a future where relatively few people run Linux at all directly on non-server hardware. Which enters into a self-reinforcing scenario of even fewer people doing so because the kernel development community will be working with fewer resources to keep up with hardware developments. I hope I'm wrong, but it's looking increasingly like the future of Linux-based clients will be IoT and raspberry pi like devices.
sologoub 8y ago
Got super excited about this - I mean what’s not to like?! Then, decided to check my other big usecase for when on the road - Netflix and other entertainment... total flop: Resolution: - Up to 1080p on Google Chrome - Up to 480p on the Netflix app from the Google Play Store https://help.netflix.com/en/node/296 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/296 So if you want to save a movie for the flight, 480p is all you get... Really wish we could get this functionality on iOS. iPad Pro is definitely big enough to code on. All it’s really missing is being able to run commandline tools.
shmerl 8y ago
> To enable support for graphical apps, the team opted to integrate the Wayland display server So why VM if they provide a Wayland compositor? For security they can use apparmor or other sandboxing methods without resorting to full virtualization.
kristianp 8y ago
Cool, now how about making the Pixelbook available in Australia?
bikamonki 8y ago
Or you can wipe it off, fully install Gallium OS before you finish a warm coffee and be super happy with your brand new super cheap fanless ssd linux laptop. Later, if you miss ChromeOS just click run a browser :)
- fluxsauce 8y ago
  That doesn't seem like an active project. Looking at https://galliumos.org/download https://galliumos.org/download > GalliumOS 2.1 was released on 2017-02-28 https://wiki.galliumos.org/News https://wiki.galliumos.org/News https://wiki.galliumos.org/Special:RecentChanges https://wiki.galliumos.org/Special:RecentChanges Is there another resource I should be looking at?
  - bikamonki 8y ago
    Maybe here? https://www.reddit.com/r/GalliumOS/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GalliumOS/
trumped 8y ago
Isn't Chrome OS based on Linux? so in other words, Google just removed restrictions that they added? I wonder what they added for this to be possible for their advertising company.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Yes ChromeOS is based on Linux. But no actually has nothing to do with how they implemented. Instead they enabled the KVM on the ChromeOS Linux kernel. Then they implemented a second Linux kernel and then are using machine containers (LXC/LXD) on top of the VM. This approach gets you container separation of GNU/Linux applications and then a container and a VM from the ChromeOS Linux kernel. This gets you a very high level of security. Just love the approach. Should also get you instant GNU/Linux applications. Just click, container comes down, spins up, do what you need, disappears. This also allows a power user to use the hook to do almost anything you can do with any GNU/Linux machine. But also provides a far more approachable way for new to GNU/Linux users to get into Linux. Have a PB and used Wine, Steam, Docker and not had any problem using anything I would on a regular distro so far. Would love to see MS and Apple to implement GNU/Linux the same way on their desktop OSs. You could have a standard. But doubt we will see it.
SomeHacker44 8y ago
...the Wine [Wine is not an emulator] emulator... :)
GogoAkira 8y ago
I can't run some linux apps on some linukss
Abishek_Muthian 8y ago
At-last, Android Studio's memory consumption might be improved upon for Chromebook sake at-least ! Compiling a decent sized project on a 4GB RAM chromebook is going to take ages.
chrononaut 8y ago
Pixelbook development will continue to be an interesting affair as Chrome OS becomes a more functional environment for developers. Curious if the next version of Pixelbook will contain a 3G/LTE interface with support for Project Fi.
sitepodmatt 8y ago
Will gnome-terminal work? What about a clipboard manager? A screenshot tool? OpenVPN?
fergie 8y ago
Does this mean that you can just open a bash shell and start doing bash stuff? If so that is fantastic, and is maybe enough to get me back onto a Chromebook.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Yes. Have on my PB already.
codedokode 8y ago
Virtual Machine will probably mean poor performance for GUI apps, especially HTML-based apps. Why don't they just use containers?
dajohnson89 8y ago
I got excited until I remembered that I have a bricked chromebook under my bed. It just stopped working one day, and before that froze often enough to be annoying.
nickjj 8y ago
If anyone wants to run Linux apps on their Chromebook right now, you can just install GalliumOS. I think it's better than the VM solution that's mentioned in the article because GalliumOS gets installed natively, so there's no VM. You can choose to dual boot it with ChromeOS. It runs really well, and it's hyper optimized for Chromebooks. It's just a fork of xubuntu. I've been running it on my Chromebook for 2 years and I use it as a portable development machine. It's nice having a $350 laptop with a 1080p IPS screen, SD ports, enough computing power to run Dockerized web apps and weighs under 3 pounds. Details on how I set it all up can be found at https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/transform-a-toshiba-chromebook-cb35-into-a-linux-development-environment-with-galliumos https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/transform-a-toshiba-chromeboo....
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  You lose the security when using GalliumOS. Used all the methods to use GNU/Linux on a CB. From using Crouton, Gallium, GNURoot, Termux and now using this as have a PixelBook. In the US so our school uses Chromebooks which replaced all the Macs. Had to hack together a way to use the CBs for AP CS 1 and 2. But now it will have support built in. By far the best approach is what Google is doing here. Keep all the security and no need to dual boot or put in developer mode. Plus this makes GNU/Linux far more approachable. Will also be able to walk into a BestBuy and chose between a bunch of different machines depending on your requirements. We also have five new higher end CBs in development and would guess partially because of this new functionality. This is ideal as you can use the hook if a power user to basically do anything you want. Run Wine or Steam or Docker or pretty much anything as you have the vector you needed. But then also can be used by a new user as the approach is basically just a click. Also we should get instant GNU/Linux applications. Container comes down, spins up, do what you need, goes away. "Here are five high-end Chromebooks in development to challenge the Pixelbook" https://www.xda-developers.com/google-pixelbook-alternative-high-end-chromebooks/ https://www.xda-developers.com/google-pixelbook-alternative-...
  - nickjj 8y ago
    > You lose the security when using GalliumOS. Depends on who is using it. For me (and I imagine most developers), it's not losing security. It's allowing us to set up a proper Linux development environment with no wasted resources or hacks. It's no less secure than installing xubuntu or Ubuntu on a different device.
emiliosic 8y ago
While on the surface this is great, I also find it concerning in the way this is going. First, you can only access this feature (for now) on a Pixelbook. This is not Android where patches are delivered first on Google's own hardware, or is it? Then Chrome OS runs no 3rd party apps, but it runs Chrome 'Native' code, which is being phased out, where Chrome acted as a VM. I think Google wanted this to happen very much but opened all sort of backdoors into managed deployments of Windows and macOS. Then ChromeOS started supporting Android apps, although the experience is very much like running an emulator. Now it can run Linux on a VM. Fair enough, but it can run Linux only if it's Ubuntu. Ubuntu is fine but it's not the only choice for Linux, and with good reason.
rbanffy 8y ago
How am I supposed to live without a Super key? No. Seriously, how is the keyboard mapping? Can the function keys emit F1-F12 or just their special functions? How is people running Linux on them working? When I was in doubt about getting one, I got an Acer "Cloudbook" that came with Windows 8 and just installed Linux on the eMMS space just because it came with a full keyboard.
blklivesmatter 8y ago
Lets all get chromeos, security tracking tool build inside by default
eric24234 8y ago
I run nodejs server, postgresql db server(configured to use low memory), installed android studio, developing an react native android app on emacs with i3 window manger on a crouton based chrooted debian os. I am really surprised i can do all these without much delay. Chromebook is really working well for me. The only problem is the samsung chromebook i use has only 8 gb of ssd and after all these i have about 2 gb left. I hope google takes the low ssd memory chromebooks in to account.
- eric24234 8y ago
  Oh i forgot to mention i have installed android on the chrome book and i can run react native android app on the chrome book.
jacksmith21006 8y ago
Just heard the Google IO attendees are getting 75% off of a Pixel Book. Incredible deal and picked wrong year to skip IO.
kartickv 8y ago
I'm happy that Chromebooks are finally powerful enough to meet my needs, but I'm concerned about running three different types of apps — web, Android and Linux. Each of these are built for different platforms, with different expectations, different UX standards, and different capabilities. Won't throwing them together on the same device be a mess?

585 points by willsinclair 8y ago

Are there any good reasons why a developer would buy a Chromebook over some other laptop, unless they are developing for the Chromebook itself?

romanovcode 8y ago
Chromebooks are cheap.
- fareesh 8y ago
  I wouldn't call $999 cheap
  - pavanky 8y ago
    I needed a machine to ssh from and have a browser. $250 acer chromebook with crouton mostly works. This is not my primary machine however. I only use it at home to ssh into my desktop once in a while.
    - terminalcommand 8y ago
      On this price range, are there any advantages of using a Chromebook rather than purchasing an old refurbished business laptop such as x230? They seem to be going for the same price range.
      - youllknow 8y ago
        because x230 is ugly pos, heavy, big while buttons still feel cramped and has bad battery life (compared to any new chromebooks)
        vuln 8y ago
        I daily a x220. It's perfect.
        tluyben2 8y ago
        Same here; lot of battery life too under Ubuntu/i3.
        tluyben2 8y ago
        With the 9 cell I get easily 15 hours while developing. Not sure which Chromebooks you are talking about. But I prefer the x220 over the 230. Haven't tried the 240 which is now starting to get cheap second hand here.
      - sowbug 8y ago
        Same as at any price range: security and managed updates.
      - mattbreeden 8y ago
        Weight, battery life, fan usage
      - pavanky 8y ago
        not sure what the battery life on x230 is. I usually get 6-7 hours atleast on my current chromebook. Besides this was an impulse purchase. I was tired of my home laptop and wanted something so I went to best buy and purchased it within half an hour. I can't say the same for x230.
puzzle 8y ago
Security.
alephnan 8y ago
Aesthetics of the Chromebook Pixel
ansible 8y ago
I have been using a Chromebook as my daily driver for nearly 2 years now. Most of the time, I'm either at home or at work, so I just remote log into my development systems. I, personally, don't really need to lug around my entire development environment, though I used to be in that school of thought. So, given that I really just need SSH, a decent Chromebook is cheap (as others mentioned), and can have a decent keyboard with long battery life. The one I have is around 1kg, so it is very "handy", and I carry it everywhere, as I would have a notepad in earlier days.
- fareesh 8y ago
  I'm trying to setup something similar - do you use Wake on LAN to turn the computer on? Or do you leave it on? Do you have a static IP or do you use some kind of dynamic DNS service?
  - markvdb 8y ago
    No static ip or dyndns needed if you use autossh.
  - ansible 8y ago
    My workstations are on 24/7 (the one at home runs some other services like a media server) with static IP addresses.
hawski 8y ago
Cheap and lightweight, but of reasonable quality. You'll get Linux out of the box. Effortless updates. Lots of battery life - my Chromebook came with 13 hours of battery and it is a few years old machine at this point.
hutzlibu 8y ago
Sadly ... driver Support. The main reason for me - standby and resume allways work and not only mostly ...
- rocky1138 8y ago
  Take a look at System76. They make Linux laptops and have full hardware/driver support out of the box. https://system76.com/ https://system76.com/
  - hutzlibu 8y ago
    I think I did checked them out. But I have a special use case, need Touchscreen, long batery life, rugged, small, lightweight ( ...for hiking and working Outdoor) Asus C213 was a perfect fit. Otherwise there are only windows devices avaiable with terrible linux Driver support at the moment.
greghendershott 8y ago
It can make sense if you're developing for Linux -- for instance web apps that will run on Linux in production. It can also make sense if you like physical function keys and/or a touch screen larger than a function key row. :) I used a Chromebook Pixel with Crouton very happily for a year. Granted I spend 95% of my time in Emacs and a web browser.
ISL 8y ago
It has been an inexpensive and reliable crouton linux box. The hardware support has been really nice, as a lot of the usual linux fiddling required to support monitors, etcetera has been much easier with the intermediate chromeOS layer.
city41 8y ago
MacBooks are out for me now that they have the touchbar and bad keyboard. I currently use a ThinkPad and it's pretty good, but the touchpad is mediocre at best. I think a ChromeBook with really first class support for Linux apps is very compelling. I run Linux in a VM on Windows 10 on my ThinkPad and it's a great setup. A ChromeBook would be a very similar setup but probably with better native OS integration (for example they are exposing the Linux filesystem in ChromeOS's file browser) and this would all be a first class use case supported by Google.
- xfer 8y ago
  You mean pixelbook, $300 chromebooks would obviously be of poor build quality; although i am not sure of the hardware quality of pixelbook either. For me a thinkpad works pretty well for a linux machine.
  - city41 8y ago
    Yeah I am thinking mostly nicer ChromeBooks. But the nicer ChromeBooks compete quite well with ThinkPads, price-wise.
  - johnvaluk 8y ago
    FWIW, I have an Acer ChromeBook I bought for $99 brand new on Black Friday a couple of years ago. I have about 20 laptops at my disposal (including ThinkPads and MacBook Pros) but I use this one the most. The build quality is surprisingly good and the battery lasts forever. I installed Linux on it after replacing the firmware, but I'm excited that Crostini might make this unnecessary on other ChromeBooks (and maybe even this model). A very important bonus of Crostini is that it will not be necessary to put the machine in developer mode.
  - mattbreeden 8y ago
    I have a Dell Chromebook 13 and the build quality is fantastic. It's my favorite laptop out of last gen Macbook Air, Dell XPS 13, Thinkpad, and Razer Blade. The keyboard on it is the only one that doesn't hurt my fingers to type on.
  - 8y ago
wilsonnb 8y ago
The Chromebook Pixel has a 3:2 screen. As far as I know only Huawei and Microsoft sell 3:2 laptops so it doesn't have much competition in that regard.
- vatueil 8y ago
  The Samsung Chromebook Plus/Pro also have 3:2 screens, same size and resolution as the Google Pixelbook (probably the same display panel). Though those are also Chrome OS devices, of course.
  - vatueil 8y ago
    Forgot to mention the new HP Chromebook X2 also shares the same display specs: https://chromeunboxed.com/hp-unveils-worlds-first-detachable-chromebook/ https://chromeunboxed.com/hp-unveils-worlds-first-detachable...
turtlebits 8y ago
It's a cheap more portable 2nd laptop. I much prefer it over a tablet. While the screen resolution on mine is pretty bad (768p 11"), I actually bring it around with me and am able to do elixir development with Termux.
kstenerud 8y ago
You can install GalliumOS [1] on a Chromebook for a full Debian-based Linux experience. I dual boot mine for certain apps I can't run under ChromeOS, but I'll be perfectly happy to stay in Chrome land once this Linux app thing gets pushed out to my chrmebook. For the most part, I'm doing heavy lifting on other machines I remote log into (graphical or shell). I've got LXC and KVM scripts [2] to spin up virtual Windows, MacOS, or Linux machines as dev environments on any Linux host, and then connect using ssh, x2go, or Chrome Remote Desktop. With this setup, I can comfortably do without a beefy laptop, and don't need to worry about taking proprietary/sensitive data through an airport. [1] https://galliumos.org/ https://galliumos.org/ [2] https://github.com/kstenerud/virtual-builders https://github.com/kstenerud/virtual-builders
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  No need now with support built in and have much better security versus using GalliumOS.
petecox 8y ago
One device to rule them all? The promise of Ubuntu Convergence and Windows Continuum on a single piece of hardware, solving the "app gap" with Android support - the best of the web, Android and one's choice of Linux desktop. An ultrabook/iPad substitute - "power users" requiring a 32GB Core i7 desktop replacement might look elsewhere, naturally.
iamnothere 8y ago
Here are my own reasons: 1. The security model is fantastic compared to the alternatives. DIY security is an endless distraction these days unless it's your full-time job. I am concerned that the team may not be able to keep things so secure as the complexity of Chrome OS increases, but as a starting point it's still the most secure commercial OS out there. 2. Little to no setup. Boot it up, log in, and you're ready. (And now, I guess, install whatever Linux apps you want.) This makes it easy to recover from hardware failure, even if you're on the road. Just go take one off the shelf, no worries about installation, configuration, etc. 3. Disposability. Most Chromebooks are incredibly cheap. If it breaks or if you lose it, it's not the end of the world. 4. Easy, safe sharing. If someone needs to borrow a computer to check their email, you can log out and hand it to them. Your stuff is securely encrypted, and the system is hardened against compromise. This may not be a big deal for everyone, but it brings me great peace of mind!

timvisee 8y ago

I wonder why they are using a VM running Debian for Linux applications, as Chrome OS is already Linux (Gentoo) based itself.

bergie 8y ago
Sandboxing
rukittenme 8y ago
If I had to guess its because they want to move to their own proprietary systems and don't want to support backwards compatibility with "native" linux applications.
- derefr 8y ago
  Exactly–ChromeOS being Linux-based is, at this point, an implementation detail. No ChromeOS "apps" depend on that fact, because they all run under their own VMs or ABI sandboxes. This means that Google could make a Fuchsia-based ChromeOS and nothing in userland (save for the code of those VMs and sandboxes) would have to change.
  - hutzlibu 8y ago
    Isn't Fuchsia OS as well, kust no GPL?
    - esprehn 8y ago
      Fuschia doesn't contain any Linux at all, hidden or otherwise. There's a compat layer you can run on top, but it's closer to the Windows subsystem for Linux than Chrome OS.
    - vatueil 8y ago
      Yes, various parts use BSD/MIT/Apache licenses, e.g.: https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/docs/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/docs/blob/master/LICENSE That said, parent comments seem to be talking about two different topics. Later comment about Google switching the underlying foundation of Chrome OS from Linux to Fuchsia sounds plausible, while earlier comment complaining about Fuchsia being proprietary is nonsense.

deft 8y ago

This is cool! I won't be stuck with hterm and the bugs that have always been present in it any more :)

jphalimi 8y ago

"Google’s PM director for Chrome OS Kan Liu told me the company was obviously aware that people were using Crouton to do this before. But doing this also meant doing away with all of the security features that come with Google’s operating system." I don't know if I am the only one, but this one made me laugh.

iodiniemetra 8y ago
Yes, disabling signed boot and allowing untrusted, unsandboxed code is what sets chromebooks apart from the competition. Of course, you can do away with these checks by entering developer mode.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Plus the automatic updating and even done in the background. Just pick it up next reboot. True story. Son was turning his Win PC off for the night and it indicated do not shut off as updating. Told him just leave it on for the night. Wake up in the morning and still do not turn off updating. Just a terrible UX. I am a huge fan of CBs. Now GNU/Linux support makes it that much better.

JepZ 8y ago

I wish they would also offer some runtime environment to run Android apps on a normal Linux (e.g. Debian/Arch). And no, I am not talking about some weird, full size VM with a few Gigs of ram overhead. But since the business case seems to be missing, I will probably have to wait forever ;-)

beagle3 8y ago
Anbox[0] already does that. It's not official, it's not from Google, it's not perfect, but .. it works, and integrates the android apps into your system (does not have a weird VM or few gigs of ram overhead). [0] https://anbox.io/ https://anbox.io/

hutzlibu 8y ago

I only dived in crouton etc. for a short view, but I think the main reason why I did not continue (besides that it was messy) was the lack of GPU rendering (I believe there was none, at least for my ARM Modell) Is this going to be different with this approach?

glibgil 8y ago
Yes, https://chromeunboxed.com/news/chromebook-crostini-containers-gpu-support/ https://chromeunboxed.com/news/chromebook-crostini-container...
- hutzlibu 8y ago
  Ok.. now it is good news for me ;)
Filligree 8y ago
OpenGL already works via llvmpipe, but of course that's software. It's enough to run some applications, though. And yes, virtio-gpu is coming.

totallysnowman 8y ago

Neat! So now you can run JavaScript "IDE" inside a browser inside a Linux VM inside a browser on Linux!

giancarlostoro 8y ago
While running a Windows app through Wine inside....
ovao 8y ago
"Yo dawg, I herd u like browsers..."
- jmiller099 8y ago
  lol, awesome
- ghego1 8y ago
  Well said sir, well said indeed.
ulyssesgrant 8y ago
is chrome OS still considered a browser if it's providing a VM for non-javascript applications?
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Never thought ChromeOS was a browser. Plus already had Android support.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  Chrome is a browser. Chrome OS is, as the name suggests, an OS.

tinix 8y ago

Tech journalists, especially, almost always fail to do even a tiny bit of research or due diligence. I mean... Crostini is not "new", it's been on dev channel for months[1]! But this article ending... hilarious icing on the cake. > "Now, it’s probably only a matter of hours before somebody starts running Windows apps in Chrome OS with the help of the Wine emulator." Someone should also tell them about running Crossover on Chrome OS via Android[2], which has already been possible for months! [1] https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/879173 https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/87... [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.codeweavers.cxoffice https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.codeweaver...

zitterbewegung 8y ago
To be honest if the manufacturer is misleading you that you have to do secondary research then why go to the event at all. I agree they should have done their due dilligence but at this time since no one values the written word nearly everyone is just taking some press release and cut and pasting it. On the other hand I have seen products being launched at Google I/O and being non existant for months. Tensorflow lite took months to come out. Why would you do this? Real artists ship and I don't get why you would announce something and have an indefinite launch date? By the time tensorflow lite came out Apple had coreml out for months and was somewhat usable.
wlesieutre 8y ago
While they're at it, they could discuss what WINE is, and more specifically, what it is not ;)
- tinix 8y ago
  Oh my gosh, I was so annoyed by their utter lack of competency that I didn't even catch that they did call it an emulator. Classic.
- sp332 8y ago
  That's funny, but just because it says it's not an emulator... Well, see this page where it used to be short for Windows Emulator. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/windows-emulation/wine-faq/ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/windows-emulation/wine-faq/

z3t4 8y ago

I guess "web apps" are not as successful as Google hoped. There are some great web apps, but they are electron apps ... Maybe bake in "elevated" mode in Chrome so it basically becomes Electron, but with some kernel hooks to limit an apps abilities and let users pick what the app is able to access, network, hdd, etc.

pier25 8y ago
You are missing the point. This is purely intended for advanced users. Web apps and Android apps are more than fine for the large majority of Chrome OS users.
jacksmith21006 8y ago
Google has 60% of K12 in the US coming decades later than Apple and MS and a fail?
- z3t4 8y ago
  It's kinda insane! what apps are they using !?
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    Google Docs, sheets, slides, and a big one is Google Classroom. But what I like is the analytics. It is all about taking the gut out of matching students and teachers. I have 8 kids and you get a link with everything broken down by kid and can drill down.

chrisfarms 8y ago

I'm really happy Google are giving a go at making ChromeOS into something more than browser on steroids. I really believe this is a path to a decent Linux Desktop future. I'm def considering getting a pixelbook for my main machine this year now.

hs86 8y ago

How does Chrome OS and its display server compare security-wise to a regular GNU/Linux distribution? Is each desktop application going to live in its own sandbox?

paultopia 8y ago

I think this is great. I bought a chromebook flip a couple of years ago, with the intention of putting Linux on it---only to find that the hardware is depressingly bad and the ARM processor makes the Linux experience terrible (had to install Arch, never did manage to make basic things like the JVM work right, eventually gave up on it). Since then, I've been very skeptical of the notion of buying chromebooks as cheap and lightweight mobile working tools. But I will buy a pixelbook in an instant if I can get a fully functional, no bullshit with having to install custom kernels or new firmware or god only knows what and what will happen to the hardware and what just won't work despite The Internet insisting it does, insisting! Oh Lordy. A Linux environment available on decent hardware, without having to MacGyver it together with bubble gum and safety pins? Where things like power management actually work? What other options are there, really, for that? Purism? Dell XPS13! All of those are actually more expensive than the Pixelbook. (Though the Dell thing does look pretty sweet.) Hell, I may go order one now.

jmagoon 8y ago
The other good thing about this is that the Pixelbook is a 3:2 screen, so finally there's a laptop with a proper display resolution that can run Linux nicely. There's a good community of folks over at https://www.reddit.com/r/Crostini/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Crostini/ who have been tinkering with this for quite some time.
- mschuster91 8y ago
  > with a proper display resolution 3:2? No thanks I don't really want black bars when watching movies... What I'd really really like is something with the build quality (especially the touchpad!) of a MacBook Pro, with decent and recent hardware, first class Linux support for all features, support for both USB-C and "old" USB and a decent keyboard with it. And that without paying more than for an technologically outdated yet still top-of-the-line MBP...
  - lallysingh 8y ago
    So a thinkpad.

indescions_2018 8y ago

More details in XDA Developers interview with Kan Liu. Also suggesting GPU acceleration support later this year https://www.xda-developers.com/chrome-os-linux-app-support-google-pixelbook/ https://www.xda-developers.com/chrome-os-linux-app-support-g... My prediction: VS Code / Pixelbook becomes a formidable devenv for many in the coming months ;) You can always try Neverware on a live usb to get a taste https://www.neverware.com/freedownload https://www.neverware.com/freedownload

solarkraft 8y ago
The ironic thing is that VS Code is made in web technology.
- gcb0 8y ago
  linux -> android -> browser -> linux -> browser -> VS
  - microcolonel 8y ago
    Not exactly, it's more like +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Linux kernel + Android kernel bits | | | | | | | | Various and sundry | | | | | | | | Wayland compositor -----------------------------+ | | | | | | | | | | Wayland browser windows Wayland surfaces proxied from Qemu-KVM | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
- avip 8y ago
  I've missed the irony here.
8y ago

segmondy 8y ago

But would these cost $200 like the original chromebooks? The entire sell of Chromebooks to me was that they were really cheap. The newer models tend to cost as much as a macbook.

bergie 8y ago
There are both cheap and expensive Chromebooks available. So the main change is that now you have mid- and high-range Chromebooks _alongside_ the cheap ones, depending what you prefer

johnvega 8y ago

This is great. I've been exploring Chromebook for the first time, but immediately got it in dev mode, then installed ubuntu gnome using crouton (chroot). Then installed golang and vscode, chrome and firefox browsers, and some tweaking for keyboard. It's been okay for several weeks. I can switch back to ChromeOS and have TeamViewer and Windows Remote Desktop to access more powerful computers at home or VMs from the cloud. Long battery life, fanless, (Acer 14 full hd) good stuff, great experience overall, but it looks like it will get better.

jacksmith21006 8y ago
Acer 14 is an excellent machine. We have a bunch of them as have 8 kids and not had a single issue with a machine. I hand them to my kid and to not hear back which is my ideal. I am the house admin even though never applied for the job. Purchased all Acer refurb for about $200 USD. One was $180. You just can not get any other laptop that is all metal, peppy performance, incredible security, etc for so cheap.

ryanpcmcquen 8y ago

This is a great and unexpected move by Google.

tambourine_man 8y ago

You hear that Adobe? You now have a lot of potential costumers to sell your Creative Cloud package to. I bet those Chromebooks are selling like hot cakes and many schools would love to offer training for your tools. As a side benefit, you'd get a lot of neglected Pro Apple costumers (well, one at least), which would love to use some blessed by Adobe Linux distro. Also… >…meaning that even less powerful machines should be able to handle a code editor without issues. Being able to run a code editor is a statement of a machine's power and system optimization? Welcome to the wonderful world of Electron apps. >…Wine emulator Wine is not an emulator, for crying out loud.

pier25 8y ago
I seriously doubt Adobe will release Linux apps, ever. They hardly can keep up with Mac and Windows...
- omeid2 8y ago
  The tide is shifting, I thought Microsoft would never endorser Linux, but here we are with at least two three version of Microsoft Linux.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Because they need devs on Azure and their IoT offerings. Adobe will do pretty fine with Windows and OS X customers.
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    Prefer this GNu/Linux implementation. Far more secure.
simonh 8y ago
>Wine is not an emulator, for crying out loud To those of us that used it back when Wine officially stood for Windows Emulator, people nowadays getting all upset on this point is an ever green source of amusement.

owaislone 8y ago

Ever since I bought a Samsung Chromebook Plus for a friend and had a week to play with it, I've wanted Google to do this. This is probably my favourite announcement from I/O this year. I love how simple and well designed Chrome OS is. Now I can get proper access to all the tools I'm used to on Linux while not having to deal with terrible UX when it comes to things like notifications, daily schedule, calendar and mail. This to me looks like the perfect balance between running Linux and macOS. I'm running Kubuntu on a 1 year old XPS 13 and most things work quite well. I do however miss a nice mail clients, reliable notifications about meetings, daily schedule, etc. I've tried almost everything available on Linux and while some things do work, they either are not reliable enough (with cloud APIs, etc) or are too ugly and clunky to use. I'll wait for the next Pixelbook before jumping ship. Hopefully, Linux apps support would have matured enough by then.

nambit 8y ago
Evolution is an ok'ish mail client. Notifications should be reliable enough?
nine_k 8y ago
An open gmail tab solves the problem of an email client.
konschubert 8y ago
I recently discovered "mailspring" as a snap package in the software center. It's quite a powerful and polished mail app. The disadvantage is that it breaks down on me sometimes and by default it adds tracking features to your email, so you'll have to turn that off.
jacksmith21006 8y ago
Same. Have a Pixel book and love having the same OS as the cloud.

williamstein 8y ago

Will this make it possible to run Docker in a Chromebook? With Crouton, which is just a chroot, you can't run Docker at all (without changing the ChromeOS kernel), and can only run rkt containers. If this new Linux apps support really runs in a Debian KVM virtual machine, then maybe it will be possible to run Docker in that, which would be a massive advantage over what crouton provides. Anybody know?

seabrookmx 8y ago
I'm curious about this as well. I was toying with the idea of setting up my docker cli in crouton to connect to a docker daemon I host via a VPS (cheap Lightsail box maybe). I think this will work fine.. it's just the docker daemon that won't run because the ChromeOS kernel locks it out of features it needs. Then I could do local dev but any docker calls would run remotely. But I'm sure that will have its quirks.. if I could run lightweight containers (node, redis, etc) directly on my Chromebook then I'd prefer that.
thesandlord 8y ago
Yes, you can run Docker. Source: I've been testing Crostini for a while now, and Docker works great!
- williamstein 8y ago
  Thanks! This is really fantastic news!
nickjj 8y ago
I've been running Docker on my Chromebook for years. I just installed GalliumOS on it (a native Linux OS tuned for Chromebooks). It works really well.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Better approach, I'm, is use Crouton. Just have to use rkt to launch the containers. Now not necessary to even use developer.

darren0 8y ago

I've been playing with crosvm and containers (lxd) in ChromeOS for awhile and I've been very impressed at the technical expertise that has been required to bring this to ChromeOS. Now that the terminal app is released I can say (I have a pixelbook and am currently using it), the user experience is really quite slick. This is a very promising platform.

gyrgtyn 8y ago

can we access network / tun/tap stuff?

newnewpdro 8y ago

I assume the reason this is being abstracted behind a VM where the app must bring not just a userspace but its own kernel is because Chrome OS is about to become Fuchsia, and the only vestige of Linux on the future Chrome OS devices will be in a VM for niche applications. Hooray. This isn't more Linux, this is a compatibility step towards less Linux being spun as something else.

jacksmith21006 8y ago
What? If the Linux support remains how is it "less Linux"? Linux is embedded inside ChromeOS and could be Fred and nobody would know any difference. The complaining on HN is becoming just baffling. seems for the sake of just complaining. We finally have a machine that support GNU/Linux applications out of the box and from the UI standpoint basically a first class citizen. But the most secure GNU/Linux machine you can get. Honestly there is no reason the same technique being used by Google could not have been also done by MS and/or Apple. Could even have been a standard. Click, container comes down, spins up, do what you need, disappears. It is a bit insane we have basically the same hardware for Windows, Macs and ChromeOS and we make each different in the OS. I get some CBs are ARM but really not as common as people think.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  It's less Linux because this is another step towards Chrome OS devices not running any Linux at all except for in niche situations, and in those cases only as a VM. The decision to use a VM is the telling part. If they were committed to Linux as the underlying kernel in Chrome OS this would just use process-level isolation like containers. When measured in terms of number of devices actually running a Linux kernel on physical hardware, in a post-Fuchsia Chrome OS world there will be less Linux kernels executing on devices at the bare metal, according to my prediction. Between this and Android pivoting to Fuchsia, the number of non-server devices executing Linux kernels on physical hardware will have dropped substantially. For anyone who values having a well-supported GPL kernel with maintained and modern hardware drivers as an option it should be viewed as incrementally more bad news. Microsoft and WSL is another facet of this attack on the Linux kernel. By providing a way to run a Linux userspace directly from existing proprietary Windows installs, they remove a bulk of the impetus a Windows user may have had to attempt running the Linux kernel directly on their physical hardware. We're headed towards a future where relatively few people run Linux at all directly on non-server hardware. Which enters into a self-reinforcing scenario of even fewer people doing so because the kernel development community will be working with fewer resources to keep up with hardware developments. I hope I'm wrong, but it's looking increasingly like the future of Linux-based clients will be IoT and raspberry pi like devices.

sologoub 8y ago

Got super excited about this - I mean what’s not to like?! Then, decided to check my other big usecase for when on the road - Netflix and other entertainment... total flop: Resolution: - Up to 1080p on Google Chrome - Up to 480p on the Netflix app from the Google Play Store https://help.netflix.com/en/node/296 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/296 So if you want to save a movie for the flight, 480p is all you get... Really wish we could get this functionality on iOS. iPad Pro is definitely big enough to code on. All it’s really missing is being able to run commandline tools.

shmerl 8y ago

> To enable support for graphical apps, the team opted to integrate the Wayland display server So why VM if they provide a Wayland compositor? For security they can use apparmor or other sandboxing methods without resorting to full virtualization.

kristianp 8y ago

Cool, now how about making the Pixelbook available in Australia?

bikamonki 8y ago

Or you can wipe it off, fully install Gallium OS before you finish a warm coffee and be super happy with your brand new super cheap fanless ssd linux laptop. Later, if you miss ChromeOS just click run a browser :)

fluxsauce 8y ago
That doesn't seem like an active project. Looking at https://galliumos.org/download https://galliumos.org/download > GalliumOS 2.1 was released on 2017-02-28 https://wiki.galliumos.org/News https://wiki.galliumos.org/News https://wiki.galliumos.org/Special:RecentChanges https://wiki.galliumos.org/Special:RecentChanges Is there another resource I should be looking at?
- bikamonki 8y ago
  Maybe here? https://www.reddit.com/r/GalliumOS/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GalliumOS/

trumped 8y ago

Isn't Chrome OS based on Linux? so in other words, Google just removed restrictions that they added? I wonder what they added for this to be possible for their advertising company.

jacksmith21006 8y ago
Yes ChromeOS is based on Linux. But no actually has nothing to do with how they implemented. Instead they enabled the KVM on the ChromeOS Linux kernel. Then they implemented a second Linux kernel and then are using machine containers (LXC/LXD) on top of the VM. This approach gets you container separation of GNU/Linux applications and then a container and a VM from the ChromeOS Linux kernel. This gets you a very high level of security. Just love the approach. Should also get you instant GNU/Linux applications. Just click, container comes down, spins up, do what you need, disappears. This also allows a power user to use the hook to do almost anything you can do with any GNU/Linux machine. But also provides a far more approachable way for new to GNU/Linux users to get into Linux. Have a PB and used Wine, Steam, Docker and not had any problem using anything I would on a regular distro so far. Would love to see MS and Apple to implement GNU/Linux the same way on their desktop OSs. You could have a standard. But doubt we will see it.

SomeHacker44 8y ago

...the Wine [Wine is not an emulator] emulator... :)

GogoAkira 8y ago

I can't run some linux apps on some linukss

Abishek_Muthian 8y ago

At-last, Android Studio's memory consumption might be improved upon for Chromebook sake at-least ! Compiling a decent sized project on a 4GB RAM chromebook is going to take ages.

chrononaut 8y ago

Pixelbook development will continue to be an interesting affair as Chrome OS becomes a more functional environment for developers. Curious if the next version of Pixelbook will contain a 3G/LTE interface with support for Project Fi.

sitepodmatt 8y ago

Will gnome-terminal work? What about a clipboard manager? A screenshot tool? OpenVPN?

fergie 8y ago

Does this mean that you can just open a bash shell and start doing bash stuff? If so that is fantastic, and is maybe enough to get me back onto a Chromebook.

jacksmith21006 8y ago
Yes. Have on my PB already.

codedokode 8y ago

Virtual Machine will probably mean poor performance for GUI apps, especially HTML-based apps. Why don't they just use containers?

dajohnson89 8y ago

I got excited until I remembered that I have a bricked chromebook under my bed. It just stopped working one day, and before that froze often enough to be annoying.

nickjj 8y ago

If anyone wants to run Linux apps on their Chromebook right now, you can just install GalliumOS. I think it's better than the VM solution that's mentioned in the article because GalliumOS gets installed natively, so there's no VM. You can choose to dual boot it with ChromeOS. It runs really well, and it's hyper optimized for Chromebooks. It's just a fork of xubuntu. I've been running it on my Chromebook for 2 years and I use it as a portable development machine. It's nice having a $350 laptop with a 1080p IPS screen, SD ports, enough computing power to run Dockerized web apps and weighs under 3 pounds. Details on how I set it all up can be found at https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/transform-a-toshiba-chromebook-cb35-into-a-linux-development-environment-with-galliumos https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/transform-a-toshiba-chromeboo....

jacksmith21006 8y ago
You lose the security when using GalliumOS. Used all the methods to use GNU/Linux on a CB. From using Crouton, Gallium, GNURoot, Termux and now using this as have a PixelBook. In the US so our school uses Chromebooks which replaced all the Macs. Had to hack together a way to use the CBs for AP CS 1 and 2. But now it will have support built in. By far the best approach is what Google is doing here. Keep all the security and no need to dual boot or put in developer mode. Plus this makes GNU/Linux far more approachable. Will also be able to walk into a BestBuy and chose between a bunch of different machines depending on your requirements. We also have five new higher end CBs in development and would guess partially because of this new functionality. This is ideal as you can use the hook if a power user to basically do anything you want. Run Wine or Steam or Docker or pretty much anything as you have the vector you needed. But then also can be used by a new user as the approach is basically just a click. Also we should get instant GNU/Linux applications. Container comes down, spins up, do what you need, goes away. "Here are five high-end Chromebooks in development to challenge the Pixelbook" https://www.xda-developers.com/google-pixelbook-alternative-high-end-chromebooks/ https://www.xda-developers.com/google-pixelbook-alternative-...
- nickjj 8y ago
  > You lose the security when using GalliumOS. Depends on who is using it. For me (and I imagine most developers), it's not losing security. It's allowing us to set up a proper Linux development environment with no wasted resources or hacks. It's no less secure than installing xubuntu or Ubuntu on a different device.

emiliosic 8y ago

While on the surface this is great, I also find it concerning in the way this is going. First, you can only access this feature (for now) on a Pixelbook. This is not Android where patches are delivered first on Google's own hardware, or is it? Then Chrome OS runs no 3rd party apps, but it runs Chrome 'Native' code, which is being phased out, where Chrome acted as a VM. I think Google wanted this to happen very much but opened all sort of backdoors into managed deployments of Windows and macOS. Then ChromeOS started supporting Android apps, although the experience is very much like running an emulator. Now it can run Linux on a VM. Fair enough, but it can run Linux only if it's Ubuntu. Ubuntu is fine but it's not the only choice for Linux, and with good reason.

rbanffy 8y ago

How am I supposed to live without a Super key? No. Seriously, how is the keyboard mapping? Can the function keys emit F1-F12 or just their special functions? How is people running Linux on them working? When I was in doubt about getting one, I got an Acer "Cloudbook" that came with Windows 8 and just installed Linux on the eMMS space just because it came with a full keyboard.

blklivesmatter 8y ago

Lets all get chromeos, security tracking tool build inside by default

eric24234 8y ago

I run nodejs server, postgresql db server(configured to use low memory), installed android studio, developing an react native android app on emacs with i3 window manger on a crouton based chrooted debian os. I am really surprised i can do all these without much delay. Chromebook is really working well for me. The only problem is the samsung chromebook i use has only 8 gb of ssd and after all these i have about 2 gb left. I hope google takes the low ssd memory chromebooks in to account.

eric24234 8y ago
Oh i forgot to mention i have installed android on the chrome book and i can run react native android app on the chrome book.

jacksmith21006 8y ago

Just heard the Google IO attendees are getting 75% off of a Pixel Book. Incredible deal and picked wrong year to skip IO.

kartickv 8y ago

I'm happy that Chromebooks are finally powerful enough to meet my needs, but I'm concerned about running three different types of apps — web, Android and Linux. Each of these are built for different platforms, with different expectations, different UX standards, and different capabilities. Won't throwing them together on the same device be a mess?