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Just have to add that in circumstances like this a corporate death penalty seems appropriate. Equifax is an entity that you are not able to be removed from in a

Just have to add that in circumstances like this a corporate death penalty seems appropriate. Equifax is an entity that you are not able to be removed from in any way. When you look at the financial and security ramifications of the breach and what was released and the response, seems appropriate. The kicker is that Equifax also offers credit monitoring for fraud prevention as a product to line their coffers.

ams6110 8y ago
The corporate death penalty here would not fix the problem. The data are already exposed. Equifax market cap is currently $13.5B. Corporate death penalty would hurt owners of that stock, maybe funds in your own 401K account. Thousands of people would lose their jobs. Would it have a preventive effect? Maybe but doubtful. There are too many systems with too much data that are too old and too interconnected to think that it's even possible to secure them all. If it wasn't Equifax it would have been someone else, eventually. Most of what Equifax exposed was probably already exposed in other leaks anyway. Better solution should be developing new, secure methods of proving identity, where leaks don't matter because it's not possible to leak anything of value. All the old ways are now forever broken.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Power is part of the problem. Blowing up companies will have the effect of diffusing power. That they've managed to schmear consequences of that explosion across society is a pretty circular reason for not damaging them.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    OK, say Equifax is blown up. How does that get us any farther with the fundamental problem of how to prove identity when all the old schemes have been rendered useless? There's a revenge or punishment piece that maybe is necessary and appropriate, but it doesn't solve any of the real problems we now face.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - guitarbill 8y ago
      Maybe the other credit reporting agencies and other companies would take security seriously. Sometimes breaches happen. Sometimes it's clearly negligence. And just because it's too late now doesn't mean the law can't be adjusted to prevent it from happening in the future. If you don't learn from mistakes, that's dumb. And obviously companies can't be trusted to do it themselves.
  - redbeard0x0a 8y ago
    Money is a proxy for power in society. The fines for this breach should be enormous since it wasn't just them being hacked, they were negligent in maintaining their systems. If the consequences of losing our data was high enough, more money would be spent protecting the data. Which I think is one of the good things for GDPR, it has stiff penalties and one of the considerations for the fine is negligence. Equifax is probably going to end up making more money now because of the breach as more people now need "better" identity verification - a service that Equifax conveniently provides.
- rectang 8y ago
  If no company ever pays a price for data breech, what motivation is there to implement "new, secure methods of proving identity"?
  - __blockcipher__ 8y ago
    None, as you have correctly noticed. When are we as a society going to say enough is enough and take power back from these evil entities? [Yes, I do consider them to be evil]
- hashkb 8y ago
  Neither does the regular death penalty un-murder anyone. But as long as our society feels it has the right to end human lives, it should absolutely have the right to dissolve corporations; and corporations are capable of much greater harm than individuals. Capital punishment is meant as a deterrent, not a preventative measure (well, really, it's revenge for the mob) and so it could potentially work much better with corporations than with individuals.
- __blockcipher__ 8y ago
  Bullshit apologism. Shareholders should lose their shirts, for the same reason Enron shareholders did. [Equifax did not commit fraud, but my point is that when a company through incompetence or malice damages 100s of millions of Americans...yeah, they should be dissolved from existence.] Data breaches are only preventable when you have an inhumanly good security team. This is mot even possible for your average non-technically-inclined business leader. Why don’t I have any say in all my financial transactions and “passwords” being sent to and vacuumed up by tech ologically incompetent, undeniably unethical bureau-corps? It’s what I found so refreshing about Monero and other cruptocurrencies when I still used them (took a break from the scene). No one can steal your identity or your money withhout you yourself making a mistake.
- smileysteve 8y ago
  If a shareholder (or fund) is invested in a company, those investments should be considered at risk, without a risk component, companies may as well only return the tbill rate. By giving equifax the death penalty, future shareholders should choose between competitors, including on who will do the better job with accuracy and data security.
vinceguidry 8y ago
I hope you're being specific in your wish for Equifax to be shut down and not the whole consumer credit reporting industry. That industry solves a very, very real problem for consumers, and countries without credit reporting also don't have consumer access to credit, making, among other things, finding mortgage loans virtually impossible. The privacy angle is minuscule compared to the human costs of not having consumer debt.
- rectang 8y ago
  The whole credit reporting industry depends on others absorbing their massive negative externalities. The companies are the equivalent of gross polluters dumping benzene into reservoirs. > The privacy angle is minuscule It is infuriating to see the suffering of the individual victims of identity theft dismissed so cavalierly. If the credit reporting companies had to pay for all the harm they cause they would be bankrupt many times over. Even if credit rating serves a purpose, how does the system get reformed to bring true redress to those negatively affected by it?
- guitarbill 8y ago
  And if getting a mortgage or a similarly big decision was the only time you needed a credit score, that would be one thing. Problem is in the US, a stupid number of things requires a credit score, including some mobile phone contracts (!). Having grown up in a credit-averse and cash-focused society, I don't think they're that necessary. What people do instead in build a relationship with your local bank. Of course, once you're used to a credit-driven society it's hard/impossible to go back. People apparently hate being told "No you can't afford that new car".
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    Would you go back to those days? In my twenties when I left the military I lost the ability to pay back my debts. It took me some 9 years to decide to clean up my credit. Living without a credit score is absolutely possible right now.
- neuland 8y ago

ams6110 8y ago

The corporate death penalty here would not fix the problem. The data are already exposed. Equifax market cap is currently $13.5B. Corporate death penalty would hurt owners of that stock, maybe funds in your own 401K account. Thousands of people would lose their jobs. Would it have a preventive effect? Maybe but doubtful. There are too many systems with too much data that are too old and too interconnected to think that it's even possible to secure them all. If it wasn't Equifax it would have been someone else, eventually. Most of what Equifax exposed was probably already exposed in other leaks anyway. Better solution should be developing new, secure methods of proving identity, where leaks don't matter because it's not possible to leak anything of value. All the old ways are now forever broken.

maxerickson 8y ago
Power is part of the problem. Blowing up companies will have the effect of diffusing power. That they've managed to schmear consequences of that explosion across society is a pretty circular reason for not damaging them.
- ams6110 8y ago
  OK, say Equifax is blown up. How does that get us any farther with the fundamental problem of how to prove identity when all the old schemes have been rendered useless? There's a revenge or punishment piece that maybe is necessary and appropriate, but it doesn't solve any of the real problems we now face.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - guitarbill 8y ago
    Maybe the other credit reporting agencies and other companies would take security seriously. Sometimes breaches happen. Sometimes it's clearly negligence. And just because it's too late now doesn't mean the law can't be adjusted to prevent it from happening in the future. If you don't learn from mistakes, that's dumb. And obviously companies can't be trusted to do it themselves.
- redbeard0x0a 8y ago
  Money is a proxy for power in society. The fines for this breach should be enormous since it wasn't just them being hacked, they were negligent in maintaining their systems. If the consequences of losing our data was high enough, more money would be spent protecting the data. Which I think is one of the good things for GDPR, it has stiff penalties and one of the considerations for the fine is negligence. Equifax is probably going to end up making more money now because of the breach as more people now need "better" identity verification - a service that Equifax conveniently provides.
rectang 8y ago
If no company ever pays a price for data breech, what motivation is there to implement "new, secure methods of proving identity"?
- __blockcipher__ 8y ago
  None, as you have correctly noticed. When are we as a society going to say enough is enough and take power back from these evil entities? [Yes, I do consider them to be evil]
hashkb 8y ago
Neither does the regular death penalty un-murder anyone. But as long as our society feels it has the right to end human lives, it should absolutely have the right to dissolve corporations; and corporations are capable of much greater harm than individuals. Capital punishment is meant as a deterrent, not a preventative measure (well, really, it's revenge for the mob) and so it could potentially work much better with corporations than with individuals.
__blockcipher__ 8y ago
Bullshit apologism. Shareholders should lose their shirts, for the same reason Enron shareholders did. [Equifax did not commit fraud, but my point is that when a company through incompetence or malice damages 100s of millions of Americans...yeah, they should be dissolved from existence.] Data breaches are only preventable when you have an inhumanly good security team. This is mot even possible for your average non-technically-inclined business leader. Why don’t I have any say in all my financial transactions and “passwords” being sent to and vacuumed up by tech ologically incompetent, undeniably unethical bureau-corps? It’s what I found so refreshing about Monero and other cruptocurrencies when I still used them (took a break from the scene). No one can steal your identity or your money withhout you yourself making a mistake.
smileysteve 8y ago
If a shareholder (or fund) is invested in a company, those investments should be considered at risk, without a risk component, companies may as well only return the tbill rate. By giving equifax the death penalty, future shareholders should choose between competitors, including on who will do the better job with accuracy and data security.

vinceguidry 8y ago

I hope you're being specific in your wish for Equifax to be shut down and not the whole consumer credit reporting industry. That industry solves a very, very real problem for consumers, and countries without credit reporting also don't have consumer access to credit, making, among other things, finding mortgage loans virtually impossible. The privacy angle is minuscule compared to the human costs of not having consumer debt.

rectang 8y ago
The whole credit reporting industry depends on others absorbing their massive negative externalities. The companies are the equivalent of gross polluters dumping benzene into reservoirs. > The privacy angle is minuscule It is infuriating to see the suffering of the individual victims of identity theft dismissed so cavalierly. If the credit reporting companies had to pay for all the harm they cause they would be bankrupt many times over. Even if credit rating serves a purpose, how does the system get reformed to bring true redress to those negatively affected by it?
guitarbill 8y ago
And if getting a mortgage or a similarly big decision was the only time you needed a credit score, that would be one thing. Problem is in the US, a stupid number of things requires a credit score, including some mobile phone contracts (!). Having grown up in a credit-averse and cash-focused society, I don't think they're that necessary. What people do instead in build a relationship with your local bank. Of course, once you're used to a credit-driven society it's hard/impossible to go back. People apparently hate being told "No you can't afford that new car".
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  Would you go back to those days? In my twenties when I left the military I lost the ability to pay back my debts. It took me some 9 years to decide to clean up my credit. Living without a credit score is absolutely possible right now.
neuland 8y ago