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I don't know about this. Countless times researchers discover the next battery so much better than the current state-of-the-art being deployed, only to find out

I don't know about this. Countless times researchers discover the next battery so much better than the current state-of-the-art being deployed, only to find out they just can't scale it. New battery technology is really hard.

Animats 8y ago
Yes. Surface chemistry ("nanotechnology") seems to attract this sort of hype. "The prototype manganese-hydrogen battery, reported April 30 in Nature Energy, stands just three inches tall and generates a mere 20 milliwatt hours of electricity ... The researchers are confident they can scale up this table-top technology..." That is a really puny battery. It's 1/10th the energy capacity of a typical watch/hearing aid battery, which is about as small as you can buy retail. And it's 3 inches tall. So system energy density is currently something like 0.001 of commercial batteries. They should have scaled it up a bit more before turning on the hype machine. It's embarrassing to see this out of Stanford.
- TTPrograms 8y ago
  Utility scale batteries optimize for energy/$, not energy density or weight etc. Your comparisons are totally irrelevant.
  - vanderZwan 8y ago
    On that note, does anyone have any idea how it might compare to Peter Allen's open source Iron Battery project? I know the latter is in a very early stage, but maybe there is already a theoretical limit that can be predicted given the properties of manganese and iron. http://peterallenlab.com/ http://peterallenlab.com/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-t9a7XVoH9lDJzhUF2nyHQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-t9a7XVoH9lDJzhUF2nyHQ
- jlebrech 8y ago
  it's might be a really crappy battery, but having it use something that's virtually limitless and nearly free is a good way to go.
  - ianai 8y ago
    It’s only nearly free if it’s salt water.
    - fooker 8y ago
      We do have a virtually inexhaustible source of salt water..
      - ianai 8y ago
        Fresh water, not quite so easily sourced.
        eloff 8y ago
        Depends where you source it from.
        fooker 8y ago
        That is sort of the point of this article. Also read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_desalination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_desalination
        bonesss 8y ago
        Atomic process heat is near ideal for water desalination. Granted, investments in atomic energy eliminates a lot of the need for storage...
        jlebrech 8y ago
        remote deserted locations around the world could have a nuclear facility that also creates batteries.
    - jlebrech 8y ago
      luckily there's another upcoming battery tech that needs sodium
- 88e282102ae2e5b 8y ago
  I dunno...academic funding is dysfunctional and this kind of hyperoptimistic prediction can help you get your next grant.
sitkack 8y ago
How about starting with the goal of making a warehouse scale battery and starting backwards?

Animats 8y ago

Yes. Surface chemistry ("nanotechnology") seems to attract this sort of hype. "The prototype manganese-hydrogen battery, reported April 30 in Nature Energy, stands just three inches tall and generates a mere 20 milliwatt hours of electricity ... The researchers are confident they can scale up this table-top technology..." That is a really puny battery. It's 1/10th the energy capacity of a typical watch/hearing aid battery, which is about as small as you can buy retail. And it's 3 inches tall. So system energy density is currently something like 0.001 of commercial batteries. They should have scaled it up a bit more before turning on the hype machine. It's embarrassing to see this out of Stanford.

TTPrograms 8y ago
Utility scale batteries optimize for energy/$, not energy density or weight etc. Your comparisons are totally irrelevant.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  On that note, does anyone have any idea how it might compare to Peter Allen's open source Iron Battery project? I know the latter is in a very early stage, but maybe there is already a theoretical limit that can be predicted given the properties of manganese and iron. http://peterallenlab.com/ http://peterallenlab.com/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-t9a7XVoH9lDJzhUF2nyHQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-t9a7XVoH9lDJzhUF2nyHQ
jlebrech 8y ago
it's might be a really crappy battery, but having it use something that's virtually limitless and nearly free is a good way to go.
- ianai 8y ago
  It’s only nearly free if it’s salt water.
  - fooker 8y ago
    We do have a virtually inexhaustible source of salt water..
    - ianai 8y ago
      Fresh water, not quite so easily sourced.
      - eloff 8y ago
        Depends where you source it from.
      - fooker 8y ago
        That is sort of the point of this article. Also read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_desalination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_desalination
      - bonesss 8y ago
        Atomic process heat is near ideal for water desalination. Granted, investments in atomic energy eliminates a lot of the need for storage...
        jlebrech 8y ago
        remote deserted locations around the world could have a nuclear facility that also creates batteries.
  - jlebrech 8y ago
    luckily there's another upcoming battery tech that needs sodium
88e282102ae2e5b 8y ago
I dunno...academic funding is dysfunctional and this kind of hyperoptimistic prediction can help you get your next grant.

sitkack 8y ago

How about starting with the goal of making a warehouse scale battery and starting backwards?