16 ms·

Does growing up poor harm brain development?

162 points by johnny313 8y ago

ourcat 8y ago
Not when it comes to pure improvisation and ingenuity to get by, solve or problem and make life easier. It's astounding what people in that situation can come up with.
- matte_black 8y ago
  Wouldn’t that be explained by survivorship bias?
  - closeparen 8y ago
    It's possible but not typical to literally die of poverty in the United States.
    - dv_dt 8y ago
      I think that is systematically untrue. Poverty is correlated with a shorter lifespan. More graphs in the second link... https://news.stanford.edu/2016/04/11/geography-income-play-roles-in-life-expectancy-new-stanford-research-shows/ https://news.stanford.edu/2016/04/11/geography-income-play-r... "Being richer was associated with living longer at every level of the income distribution. And the gap between the richest 1 percent and the bottom 1 percent in the nation was vast. At 40, the richest men could expect to live to 87 while the bottom 1 percent had a life expectancy of just above 72 – equal to the average in a developing country like Sudan" https://healthinequality.org/documents/paper/healthineq_summary.pdf https://healthinequality.org/documents/paper/healthineq_summ...
      - Domenic_S 8y ago
        That's a deeply reductionist way of looking at it. > At the same time, the researchers are quick to point out that the findings cannot immediately be reduced to simple cause-and-effect explanations. For instance, as social scientists have long observed, it is very hard to say whether having wealth leads to better health — or if health, on aggregate, is a prerequisite for accumulating wealth. Most likely, the two interact in complex ways, something the study cannot resolve. - https://news.mit.edu/2016/study-rich-poor-huge-mortality-gap-us-0411 https://news.mit.edu/2016/study-rich-poor-huge-mortality-gap... In other words, this is a chicken-and-egg problem.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        dv_dt 8y ago
        If you parse that question carefully, it is not asking if existing wealth can help confer health. The question is if health is needed to accumulate (more) wealth. Word in () added. And that seems like a silly question - of course people are going to have more difficulty accumulating wealth with sufficiently bad health.. I think there is a definite policy question of how exactly is it that wealth helps grant better health, and can we effectively increase our society's health by knowing in more detail... but to me the fundamental link doesn't have much more to prove with that data.
    - klmr 8y ago
      Leaving mortality aside, survivorship doesn’t just apply to literal death; it usually (and importantly here) applies to sampling: Let’s assume for argument’s sake that poverty does indeed have a significant, detrimental effect on brain development. If a researcher now looks at poor people that beat the odds, they might well observe that these people used their (above-average) intelligence to surmount problems in their lives cause by poverty. But it would be invalid to use that observation to extrapolate that all (or most) poor people possess this kind of ingenuity. No: it was only the ones that were very smart to begin with. This faulty generalisation would indeed be an instance of survivorship bias.
    - splitrocket 8y ago
      Incorrect. https://news.mit.edu/2016/study-rich-poor-huge-mortality-gap-us-0411 https://news.mit.edu/2016/study-rich-poor-huge-mortality-gap...
  - tlarkworthy 8y ago
    Intelligence is a better predictor for success than wealth https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120329142035.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120329142035.h...
    - jonbarker 8y ago
      Intelligence is mostly a result of environment: access to 1-1 tutors, high quality nutrition, supportive peers. None of these things exist in poor areas in the US as far as I can tell.
      - quantumofmalice 8y ago
        That is not true. Adult intelligence appears to be ~70-80% based on genetic factors. See The Neuroscience of Intelligence by Richard Haier for an overview of the current consensus in intelligence research.
        moate 8y ago
        IQ tests are frequently biased. How biased will vary from test to test. Also, the data is can be misinterpreted by those unfamiliar with the tests procedures/results 1 70-80% comes from where? Nobody knows exactly what the "smart genes" are, and studies in twins show that variance between individuals in IQ is about 50%-60% genetic...or 40-50% environmental factors2A/2B Even Haier has said that the fact that intelligence is in some way genetic just means that the factors that might influence those aspects of it would also need to be genetic. This can include things like nutrition and mental illness/stress, which are more prevalent among poorer communities. TL;dr- Just because it's genetic, doesn't mean that it's determined at birth. Your biochemistry is constantly changing based on your environment. 1- http://www.theneuroethicsblog.com/2013/09/intelligence-testing-accurate-or.html http://www.theneuroethicsblog.com/2013/09/intelligence-testi... 2A- http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/genes-dont-just-influence-your-iq-they-determine-how-well-you-do-school http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/genes-dont-just-influ... 2B*- https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence
  - gtowey 8y ago
    Bingo. I think there are different kinds of poverty being assumed here. On one had you have the innovation coming from the poverty of Cuba where they have adapted in amazing ways. But that's a society where poverty is the norm and things like family structure isn't much affected by it (I'm guessing). On the other hand you have the poverty of the US where it's not the norm. The gulf between poor and rich (or just middle class) is overwhelming. The poor in the US are marginalized -- living in the least desirable areas, terrible access to education, jobs, grocery stores. High crime, broken families. Kids grow up with constant police sirens, sounds of domestic disputes, drugs, crumbling houses. That stress takes a toll. Focus on education is secondary to just surviving another day. Long term stress has been shown to cause a constellation of effects that are ruinous for our health -- mentally and physically. Remember: it's not the absolute value that matters in poverty, it's the income inequality.
    - graeme 8y ago
      Cuba has a lot of inequality too. There's a massive gulf between those with family abroad and those who have to make do only with the income from the (broken) official system. On the other hand, there is very little crime or drugs, and consequently few sirens. So even though Cuba does have slums, there are elements that are better than a poor person in the US would experience. You also don't need a car or need expensive shelter, so there's less chance that everything will crumble if you hit a financial snag. My understanding is that is a major source of stress for US poor. I don't have enough firsthand experience to know whether family structure is affected. But there are definite class differences you can note when talking to people.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- cryptoz 8y ago
  > can come up with The ability of a population to sometimes come up with incredible solutions does not negate the theory that growing up poor harms brain development. You have structured your post as a criticism or denial of the point in the article, but your post is just a logical fallacy that makes no sense. Additionally, your post suggests that you think poverty is almost a desirable situation, you show no compassion or concern for the 40 million Americans living in poverty or how the system of American capitalism has left so many of them with likely brain development problems. You dismiss leading science and modern culture for an attitude that certaintly doesn't belong in reasonable conversation online or anywhere. Your post is effectively 'F the poor, nothing is wrong with the situation, they are smart enough to get out of the whole we put them in, who cares about trying to help them or even understand what poverty is like'.
- crunchlibrarian 8y ago
  The other side of the coin (having grown up dirt poor, nearly starved to death as a child) is that by the time I hit 45 about half my high school class was already dead. Mostly alcohol and the sorts of accidents that come from working dangerous jobs. Only a couple really made it out and thrived, of the ones that remain many are broken and on barbiturates or meth, still just trying to make it through the day somehow. I work with a lot of people now who grew up wealthy on the east coast or in Orange County, and they often just don't believe me that people starved to death a couple states over while they were summering at the Hamptons. These venn diagrams just don't mix, ever.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    Hell, on this board itself, there are many people who will flat out say, "Hunger is not a problem in the US," when talking about people losing jobs.
robg 8y ago
Correlation is not causation, but most factors say yes. Moreover, the brain health of families is not generally a consideration in school systems. If kids are under toxic stress and not sleeping enough to recover, their brains won't develop to their full potential. That science is well-understood from animal models and glimpsed in human neuroimaging studies.
- ksk 8y ago
  >Moreover, the brain health of families is not generally a consideration in school systems Has anyone succeeded in making it a consideration and shown results? >If kids are under toxic stress and not sleeping enough to recover, their brains won't develop to their full potential. That begs more questions. Which child is using their brains to its full potential? What does 'full' mean here anyway? and how far away from 'full' are we talking about. >That science is well-understood from animal models and glimpsed in human neuroimaging studies. Could you elaborate?
  - KaoruAoiShiho 8y ago
    *raises
    - cjsawyer 8y ago
      Googled it and they are not interchangeable. +1 for learning something
- heymijo 8y ago
  "If kids are under toxic stress and not sleeping enough to recover, their brains won't develop to their full potential. That science is well-understood from animal models and glimpsed in human neuroimaging studies." I'm in education. I'd like to learn more about these statements. Can you recommend what/where I should search?
  - robg 8y ago
    Great popular links above. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014576 Unfortunately, the operational definition of stress in most research is still quite bad.
pressurefree 8y ago
how about with a drunk father? they fucking know this. fuck u economist. end capitalism. its midget jews and mexican hogg heads here in southern california.
quantumofmalice 8y ago
The consensus amongst intelligence researchers is that adult intelligence is ~70-80% based on genetic factors. I refer you to The Neuroscience of Intelligence - Cambridge Fundamentals of Neuroscience in Psychology by Richard Haier and the many studies sited therein. We should help poor and less intelligent people for moral reasons, but it is unlikely to improve intelligence in the poorer population and, if the aid is structured dysgenically, it will serve only to compound the problem.
- klmr 8y ago
  As you are saying, 20–30 per cent of the variability of intelligence is not heritable. In other words, it’s acquired. This contradicts your claim that “[helping them] is unlikely to improve intelligence in the poorer population”. If done correctly, it will improve intelligence.
  - quantumofmalice 8y ago
    I am saying that the evidence suggests that 70-80% of adult[1] intelligence is based on genetic factors (that is distinct from heritability, which is lower, ~60% iirc) leaving the remaining 20-30% as unknown environmental factors. Wealth intuitively does play a role in that, although I believe (with as strong of evidence any anyone else does in the matter of environmental outcomes) that a strong parental bond matters more than wealth. Again, my concern is that if unstructured wealth transfer is treated as a panacea, it will end up having compounding dysgenic effects that outweigh whatever short term individual benefits come of it. This will, in the not very long run, make poverty worse. It isn't saving me any karma since people can't be rational about this topic, but I'll stress again that I think we should help the poor for moral reasons. [1] - It is important to specify adult intelligence, because interventions do appear to help childhood IQ, but this effect fades into adulthood and eventual life outcomes. This is why there was a lot of excitement around Head Start initially, but it has failed to produce the large changes in society that was hoped for.
    - heurist 8y ago
      The remaining 20-30% is related to childhood nutrition, education, opportunities to play, learning from peer groups... all of which are heavily impacted by wealth/poverty. And 20-30% is A LOT. Luck plays as much of a role in wealth as intelligence, so to assume that wealthy are more intelligent from genetic reasons and therefore poor families will remain poor is myopic. Unstructured wealth transfer will never happen (except in cryptocurrencies) so I don't think you need to worry about that. The current effort is to get hardheaded free-marketers to recognize that equal opportunity is a myth.
plurgid 8y ago
An interesting question I've had recently, which isn't necessarily directly related to the subject of the article is, "how does access to technology affect brain development?" When I was a kid, my family was dirt poor, in a fairly literal sense. That was the early to mid 80's and while I was reasonably bright as a student, access to technology really did hold me back. I didn't get my hands on a computer until high school (in '90), and that was a broken C-64 that I had to fix myself. I didn't have a TV to connect it to. I had to earn enough to buy an old black and white TV at a garage sale before I could even get it working. My whole life I felt that this is what held me back, and so when the time came, I endeavored to make sure my kids had access to technology if they were interested. But now I see where tech has headed. They've had computers, but mostly pads and phones their entire lives. It seems almost like these platforms have DULLED their imagination to some extent. I wonder in the coming generations, if we will see some sort of correlation with access to tech in one's formative years. Especially given the intentionally addictive nature of many of the apps that have become popular in recent years. Also as tech has become ubiquitous and cheap, access it not entirely defined by economics anymore either. Success is far more than raw intelligence. I'll be interesting to see how all of that plays out in the next generation or two.
- Endama 8y ago
  My understanding is that the strongest predictors of success that psychologists know about are: 1. Intelligence 2. Conscientiousness [1] It's also my understanding that these factors usually are correlated under 40% as success predictors. Seems that a lot of it is just plain luck and/or environment. I don't see raw intelligence not being important towards success anytime soon but I don't doubt how as access to information/technology increases, that other factors will begin to dominate as differentiating factors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientiousness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientiousness
- Xeoncross 8y ago
  As a counter point, I've always felt that a main thing holding people back was desire & drive. You not having "it" lead to you cultivating a desire and a drive to acquire. Self motivation > resources
thaumaturgy 8y ago
Some further reading on this subject for those that are interested: Poverty linked to epigenetic changes and mental illness: https://www.nature.com/news/poverty-linked-to-epigenetic-changes-and-mental-illness-1.19972 https://www.nature.com/news/poverty-linked-to-epigenetic-cha... Childhood poverty linked to brain changes related to depression: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/news/childhood-poverty-linked-brain-changes-depression-305208 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/news/childhood-poverty-link... What Poverty Does to Your Brain: https://www.attn.com/stories/2442/effects-poverty-brain-mental-health https://www.attn.com/stories/2442/effects-poverty-brain-ment... What Poverty Does to the Young Brain: https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/what-poverty-does-to-the-young-brain https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/what-poverty-does-to... 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result: http://www.philly.com/philly/health/20130721__Crack_baby__study_ends_with_unexpected_but_clear_result.html http://www.philly.com/philly/health/20130721__Crack_baby__st... How Poverty Taxes the Brain: https://www.citylab.com/life/2013/08/how-poverty-taxes-brain/6716/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2013/08/how-poverty-taxes-brain... Freeing Up Intelligence: https://scholar.harvard.edu/sendhil/publications/freeing-intelligence https://scholar.harvard.edu/sendhil/publications/freeing-int... Growing Up Poor Is Bad for Your Brain: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vvb4gy/growing-up-poor-is-bad-for-your-brain https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vvb4gy/growing-up... These articles should be pretty good reads on the subject. Let me know if any of them are especially weak.
Antimachides 8y ago
Half my childhood I grew up in poor conditions. The stress of everything just drenches you. People traumatizing each other, young and old, in their stress and grief. The poor dull each other. Dulled minds are handed down. Poverty is not just economic fact, it is a state of mind.
- wnevets 8y ago
  This has been my experience as well. Every day simple things are just harder and more stressful.
- tomp 8y ago
  Did you escape? If yes, how?
  - EarthIsHome 8y ago
    Maybe the commenter was not as poor for the other half of their childhood.
  - chaosbutters 8y ago
    The typical answers are: education, military, sports, entertainment. You either need to work hard in education or go join the military and survive or be naturally gifted in sports/music.
    - zuck9 8y ago
      > be naturally gifted in sports/music By this are you referring to ease in college/scholarship acceptance?
    - fao_ 8y ago
      > or be naturally gifted in sports/music. Almost all of the people I have seen called 'gifted' in music are ordinary people that were given the chance to develop in music, both through their parents, and through things like council-funded music/orchestral programs, etc.
    - 8y ago
peter_retief 8y ago
Being poor is not something you can tell someone, you need to live it to experience the horror, you are despised and disrespected for something you had no control over
- mrguyorama 8y ago
  >something you had no control over A significant contingent of the population does not believe that to be true.
  - ythn 8y ago
    Some control over* To say poor people have no control is to say they don't have free agency. They are definitely disadvantaged, but not without some control.
    - moate 8y ago
      This article is specifically discussing brain development in children age 0-3 from families living under the poverty line. Babies cannot control their circumstances, nor do they have any free agency. They are entirely without any control.
  - adamsea 8y ago
    Well, when it comes to children at least, they are wrong.
    - mrguyorama 8y ago
      Aye, I do not agree with that idea
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    I think that's covered in the "despised and disrespected" part.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
elvirs 8y ago
I guess thats why im dumb
throwaway5787 8y ago
I grew up poor or lower middle class. But later my parents' finances improved and my siblings grew up upper middle class. I can tell you there is huge difference between my siblings especially youngest and I when it comes to finance and career. 1. They barely save any money, live pretty lavish lifestyle for what they earn. I pretty much focus on saving. Sometimes, I will skip important events, dinners, etc because I haven't met my savings goal. Before I got married, I lived in 33% of after tax income. (My friends split in two groups after college, those who upgraded their lifestyle as they earned more money, and those who either kept college lifestyle as long as possible or did not earn a lot after college to upgrade their life style. I remained friend with later group only.) 2. My siblings don't take shit form their bosses, quit jobs without finding next one. I worry too much about my job, answer phone or emails after work etc. 3. My siblings will quit jobs and travel or find themselves or whatever. I have never ever voluntarily quit job without finding next job. 4. My siblings will risk significant amount of their savings in various ventures. I only invest in index funds. 5. They buy stuff on impulse. I will research best deals. I can go on and on about difference in our mentality but main point is that somehow even with 6 figure income, I fear poverty more than I should. And they pretty much live as if money is unlimited resource. This also causes issues with my wife though she lived in poverty a bit too, so she understands my fears.
- pnutjam 8y ago
  My background mirrors yours, but I'm not the miser you seem to be. I've never made a six figure income and it took years to get to a comfortable income. I also married and had children young. I've pretty much given up on saving and spend what I can to insure my kids have a brighter future.
- etqwzutewzu 8y ago
  It is well know that first-born are more risk averse than not-first-born when adults (e.g., they buy more insurances). See references here: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/5802/do-first-borns-buy-more-insurance https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/5802/do-first-b...
carapace 8y ago
Nutrition.
stcredzero 8y ago
There is a study often cited by Thomas Sowell, which is never, ever mentioned by those on the political left in the US and never mentioned by the far right in the US -- as it goes against the narrative of both those groups. The study found that the school aged children of African American servicemen in Germany had the same average IQ as their classmates. Something we're doing to large numbers of urban children in the US is morally equivalent to putting lead in the water. It's largely been the political left in the US which has had control of large urban areas. The culture of the US in the 1st half of the 20th century wasn't harmful in this way. Poles and Italians were able to increase their average IQ's to parity with the US as a whole in that period. African Americans were also making progress in that period, but this stopped in the 1960's. One of the historical patterns which comes across in Thomas Sowell's work is that of minority elites continuing the cultural isolation of their own group to maintain their own power. One of the chief tools of maintaining cultural isolation is identity politics.
- sethjgore 8y ago
  What is the name of this particular study?
  - lr4444lr 8y ago
    Sounds like the Flynn Effect. (Not one study.)
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- lev99 8y ago
  Here is an article written by Thomas Sowell in case someone wanted to read from him first hand. https://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2002/10/01/race-and-iq-n1000028 https://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2002/10/01/race... I am not well read enough on the subject to have my own opinion. My summary of his words: The average score of an IQ test is defined as 100, so the raw intelligence each score represents changes over time as population intelligence changes over time. Some nations have seen an increase in average IQ of 20 points. There is a difference of IQ between African Americans and the rest of the US population, but that can be explained as being socially isolated, and the same difference can be found in other socially isolated populations. * Edit: I am embarrassed to have linked to such a publication, but will not modify my original words.
jonjojr 8y ago
everything is about the environment. If you have an under stimulating environment then even your health is affected. Read about the WWII pregnant survivors of holocaust where their lack of food evolved into the fetus being stingy with proteins and sugars and now they are experiencing health problems because now their body stores more than it needs and weight gain and other health factors arose. So yes, environment can be detrimental to not only brain, but full physiological development
LinuxBender 8y ago
Could a contributing factor be the quality of food that easier to access when poor? I grew up in a slightly higher than poverty environment and had to cook when my mom was at work. I was probably an exception, all my friends would eat frozen prepared meals and fast food. Calories certainly do not equal proper vitamins, enzymes and amino acids, required for a developing living being. Frozen meals and fast food have plenty of empty calories and can put the body in survival mode, storing more fat and leading to blood sugar issues, to say the least. Thoughts?
- ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
  Nutrition is definitely a factor, but probably not the major one. I think the number one factor is probably access to parental attention. It's shocking how much better an elementary age student can do when there is a parent to remind them about a homework project that is due. Or be available to answer a question on basic math or the meaning of a word. Even in two equally driven students, self learning gets stuck at home in ways parents can unblock if they have the time and energy to do it.
robg 8y ago
The work by Greenough is a classic on experiences and brain development. e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3038480 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3038480
camdenreslink 8y ago
Growing up poor > More likely to experience lead paint/lead in water > Harmed brain development.
mikeleeorg 8y ago
The book "How Children Succeed: Grit, Curiosity, and the Hidden Power of Character" by Paul Tough is a nice primer on this topic. The book includes findings from the ACE (Adverse Childhood Experiences) study [1] that points at a link between adverse childhood experiences childhood trauma with health and social problems later in life. Of course, growing up in poverty doesn't automatically mean you'll have a higher ACE level, nor does it mean you cannot change your outcomes, but it does tend to offer more traumatic experiences than children outside of poverty. [1] https://www.samhsa.gov/capt/practicing-effective-prevention/prevention-behavioral-health/adverse-childhood-experiences https://www.samhsa.gov/capt/practicing-effective-prevention/...
andrewl 8y ago
There's a researcher at the Center for Neuroscience & Society at the University of Pennsylvania who researches this topic: https://neuroethics.upenn.edu/portfolio-items/childhood-poverty-and-brain-development-from-science-to-policy-martha-j-farah/ https://neuroethics.upenn.edu/portfolio-items/childhood-pove...
Esperaux 8y ago
If someone can't afford a computer they won't be as experienced as someone who can its all about what you can afford and what you are given that helps you grow to your full potential you need to help the poor afford the means to learn if you want them to become more experienced that is basic knowledge.
Regardsyjc 8y ago
In my experience, I have recognized cycles of trauma. My mom grew up in poverty with food insecurity and her dad was an abusive alcoholic- so much that when he passed away it was like good riddance. He was so abusive my grandmother refused to remarry. I didn't grow up with food insecurity but I remember that a $1 ice cream sandwich or slice of pizza was a luxury until I got my first job. My first relationship was with an abusive person. He tried to control what I eat, separate me from my friends and family, and almost destroyed me. It was only when a friend recommended me a book Why Does He Do That? that I recognized in horror that not only was he abusive, I saw the same red flags in another relationship, my parents... Environment is so important, sometimes I see this cycle in others. I'm afraid when you come from an abusive environment sometimes you don't know any better. You don't know how you should or deserve to be treated. I saw a documentary about two young girls that were the first in their families to graduate high school and go to college in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the USA [1]. It was a feel good documentary and then I looked up the students on Facebook. One student was now a teen mom and the other had dropped out of college and was working at McDonald's. She was publicly crying for help on her Facebook personal page on why her life was so miserable. I understand that feeling to feel cursed just for being alive. I believe she may have been bullied by her wealthier classmates... Separated from her support network, bullied, and struggling to learn as well as go to school, I feel like her odds were heavily stacked against her to begin with. (And that's what Shanti Bhavan discovered too. You can't help them go to college and leave them hanging, you have to support them through college). However, I've also seen incredible stories of strength from some of the poorest places on earth. Shanti Bhavan [2], Barefoot College [3], and SECMOL [4] have done and are doing incredible work! My uneducated belief is that what all three of those places have in common is their deep love and unwavering belief for their students whether they are children or an illiterate grandmother training to be a solar engineer- as well as arming them with skills to work and provide for their families (probably the major key- that's how they gain their confidence). Maybe that's one way to tackle poverty as a mental health issue. Help traumatized communities that might be in a cycle of trauma to break abusive mindsets. Teach needed skills, confidence, and financial literacy, so they can believe that they can be more than a teen mom or like my mom, locked in an abusive marriage or relationship from financial dependence. I sincerely hope that poor American children today are not being treated worse than children from families who live with less than $1/day. In that sense, I believe instead of tackling poverty as neurological/biological, we should also investigate the environmental and behavioral. As another movement says, violent communities don't need more police officers but mental health counselors. As for anyone who says that the poor are lazy, please read about the salt farmers of India in Gujarat [5]. Watch My Name is Salt [6] to see how they farm salt for 8 months for almost nothing. You will never be able to call the poor lazy after seeing that. [1] Oyler documentary: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B06ZY7Z66X https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B06ZY7Z66X [2] Daughters of Destiny Netflix documentary: http://www.shantibhavanchildren.org/netflix/ http://www.shantibhavanchildren.org/netflix/ [3] Bunker Roy, founder of Barefoot College TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/bunker_roy https://www.ted.com/talks/bunker_roy [4] Sonam Wangchuk, founder of SECMOL TED talk: https://youtu.be/t5-Dea7rpRg https://youtu.be/t5-Dea7rpRg [4] Jungwa, The Broken Balance is a documentary by a SECMOL grad on how climate change is affecting his home in Ladakh, India: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/jungwathebrokenbalance https://vimeo.com/ondemand/jungwathebrokenbalance [5] https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2016/08/salt-farmers-india-rann-kutch-marshes-160823114732598.html https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2016/08/salt-fa... [6] https://www.amazon.com/My-Name-Salt-Farida-Pacha/dp/B01MDK9N8E https://www.amazon.com/My-Name-Salt-Farida-Pacha/dp/B01MDK9N... More resources on poverty: Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City
arvinsim 8y ago
I don't know about brain development but I think that it tends to encourage narrowmindedess. When you only have a few options and choosing the wrong one is potentially devastating, you tend to zero in on the safe and sure choice. Iterate on this a million times and you have a person who will tend to stick to the status quo and dismiss other options.
Karishma1234 8y ago
Growing up poor I think I had more stress then my peers but there was also an element of street smartness which I realised my friends simply lacked. As poor was pretty shameless asserting my needs or optimising for my benefit at the expense of others where as my rich friends seemed to not understand my selfish behaviour. For example when I was offered a job I negotiated 200% more salary upfront. The HR person was shocked but later we settled on 140% more. Where my other friend made much much less. Poverty is a state of mind but it had other benefits too in my case.
known 8y ago
Scientists have discovered that being poor actually impairs our cognitive abilities; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/the-lasting-impacts-of-po_n_4170124.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/the-lasting-impacts...

162 points by johnny313 8y ago

Not when it comes to pure improvisation and ingenuity to get by, solve or problem and make life easier. It's astounding what people in that situation can come up with.

matte_black 8y ago
Wouldn’t that be explained by survivorship bias?
- closeparen 8y ago
  It's possible but not typical to literally die of poverty in the United States.
  - dv_dt 8y ago
    I think that is systematically untrue. Poverty is correlated with a shorter lifespan. More graphs in the second link... https://news.stanford.edu/2016/04/11/geography-income-play-roles-in-life-expectancy-new-stanford-research-shows/ https://news.stanford.edu/2016/04/11/geography-income-play-r... "Being richer was associated with living longer at every level of the income distribution. And the gap between the richest 1 percent and the bottom 1 percent in the nation was vast. At 40, the richest men could expect to live to 87 while the bottom 1 percent had a life expectancy of just above 72 – equal to the average in a developing country like Sudan" https://healthinequality.org/documents/paper/healthineq_summary.pdf https://healthinequality.org/documents/paper/healthineq_summ...
    - Domenic_S 8y ago
      That's a deeply reductionist way of looking at it. > At the same time, the researchers are quick to point out that the findings cannot immediately be reduced to simple cause-and-effect explanations. For instance, as social scientists have long observed, it is very hard to say whether having wealth leads to better health — or if health, on aggregate, is a prerequisite for accumulating wealth. Most likely, the two interact in complex ways, something the study cannot resolve. - https://news.mit.edu/2016/study-rich-poor-huge-mortality-gap-us-0411 https://news.mit.edu/2016/study-rich-poor-huge-mortality-gap... In other words, this is a chicken-and-egg problem.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - dv_dt 8y ago
        If you parse that question carefully, it is not asking if existing wealth can help confer health. The question is if health is needed to accumulate (more) wealth. Word in () added. And that seems like a silly question - of course people are going to have more difficulty accumulating wealth with sufficiently bad health.. I think there is a definite policy question of how exactly is it that wealth helps grant better health, and can we effectively increase our society's health by knowing in more detail... but to me the fundamental link doesn't have much more to prove with that data.
  - klmr 8y ago
    Leaving mortality aside, survivorship doesn’t just apply to literal death; it usually (and importantly here) applies to sampling: Let’s assume for argument’s sake that poverty does indeed have a significant, detrimental effect on brain development. If a researcher now looks at poor people that beat the odds, they might well observe that these people used their (above-average) intelligence to surmount problems in their lives cause by poverty. But it would be invalid to use that observation to extrapolate that all (or most) poor people possess this kind of ingenuity. No: it was only the ones that were very smart to begin with. This faulty generalisation would indeed be an instance of survivorship bias.
  - splitrocket 8y ago
    Incorrect. https://news.mit.edu/2016/study-rich-poor-huge-mortality-gap-us-0411 https://news.mit.edu/2016/study-rich-poor-huge-mortality-gap...
- tlarkworthy 8y ago
  Intelligence is a better predictor for success than wealth https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120329142035.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120329142035.h...
  - jonbarker 8y ago
    Intelligence is mostly a result of environment: access to 1-1 tutors, high quality nutrition, supportive peers. None of these things exist in poor areas in the US as far as I can tell.
    - quantumofmalice 8y ago
      That is not true. Adult intelligence appears to be ~70-80% based on genetic factors. See The Neuroscience of Intelligence by Richard Haier for an overview of the current consensus in intelligence research.
      - moate 8y ago
        IQ tests are frequently biased. How biased will vary from test to test. Also, the data is can be misinterpreted by those unfamiliar with the tests procedures/results 1 70-80% comes from where? Nobody knows exactly what the "smart genes" are, and studies in twins show that variance between individuals in IQ is about 50%-60% genetic...or 40-50% environmental factors2A/2B Even Haier has said that the fact that intelligence is in some way genetic just means that the factors that might influence those aspects of it would also need to be genetic. This can include things like nutrition and mental illness/stress, which are more prevalent among poorer communities. TL;dr- Just because it's genetic, doesn't mean that it's determined at birth. Your biochemistry is constantly changing based on your environment. 1- http://www.theneuroethicsblog.com/2013/09/intelligence-testing-accurate-or.html http://www.theneuroethicsblog.com/2013/09/intelligence-testi... 2A- http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/genes-dont-just-influence-your-iq-they-determine-how-well-you-do-school http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/genes-dont-just-influ... 2B*- https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence
- gtowey 8y ago
  Bingo. I think there are different kinds of poverty being assumed here. On one had you have the innovation coming from the poverty of Cuba where they have adapted in amazing ways. But that's a society where poverty is the norm and things like family structure isn't much affected by it (I'm guessing). On the other hand you have the poverty of the US where it's not the norm. The gulf between poor and rich (or just middle class) is overwhelming. The poor in the US are marginalized -- living in the least desirable areas, terrible access to education, jobs, grocery stores. High crime, broken families. Kids grow up with constant police sirens, sounds of domestic disputes, drugs, crumbling houses. That stress takes a toll. Focus on education is secondary to just surviving another day. Long term stress has been shown to cause a constellation of effects that are ruinous for our health -- mentally and physically. Remember: it's not the absolute value that matters in poverty, it's the income inequality.
  - graeme 8y ago
    Cuba has a lot of inequality too. There's a massive gulf between those with family abroad and those who have to make do only with the income from the (broken) official system. On the other hand, there is very little crime or drugs, and consequently few sirens. So even though Cuba does have slums, there are elements that are better than a poor person in the US would experience. You also don't need a car or need expensive shelter, so there's less chance that everything will crumble if you hit a financial snag. My understanding is that is a major source of stress for US poor. I don't have enough firsthand experience to know whether family structure is affected. But there are definite class differences you can note when talking to people.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
cryptoz 8y ago
> can come up with The ability of a population to sometimes come up with incredible solutions does not negate the theory that growing up poor harms brain development. You have structured your post as a criticism or denial of the point in the article, but your post is just a logical fallacy that makes no sense. Additionally, your post suggests that you think poverty is almost a desirable situation, you show no compassion or concern for the 40 million Americans living in poverty or how the system of American capitalism has left so many of them with likely brain development problems. You dismiss leading science and modern culture for an attitude that certaintly doesn't belong in reasonable conversation online or anywhere. Your post is effectively 'F the poor, nothing is wrong with the situation, they are smart enough to get out of the whole we put them in, who cares about trying to help them or even understand what poverty is like'.
crunchlibrarian 8y ago
The other side of the coin (having grown up dirt poor, nearly starved to death as a child) is that by the time I hit 45 about half my high school class was already dead. Mostly alcohol and the sorts of accidents that come from working dangerous jobs. Only a couple really made it out and thrived, of the ones that remain many are broken and on barbiturates or meth, still just trying to make it through the day somehow. I work with a lot of people now who grew up wealthy on the east coast or in Orange County, and they often just don't believe me that people starved to death a couple states over while they were summering at the Hamptons. These venn diagrams just don't mix, ever.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  Hell, on this board itself, there are many people who will flat out say, "Hunger is not a problem in the US," when talking about people losing jobs.

robg 8y ago

Correlation is not causation, but most factors say yes. Moreover, the brain health of families is not generally a consideration in school systems. If kids are under toxic stress and not sleeping enough to recover, their brains won't develop to their full potential. That science is well-understood from animal models and glimpsed in human neuroimaging studies.

ksk 8y ago
>Moreover, the brain health of families is not generally a consideration in school systems Has anyone succeeded in making it a consideration and shown results? >If kids are under toxic stress and not sleeping enough to recover, their brains won't develop to their full potential. That begs more questions. Which child is using their brains to its full potential? What does 'full' mean here anyway? and how far away from 'full' are we talking about. >That science is well-understood from animal models and glimpsed in human neuroimaging studies. Could you elaborate?
- KaoruAoiShiho 8y ago
  *raises
  - cjsawyer 8y ago
    Googled it and they are not interchangeable. +1 for learning something
heymijo 8y ago
"If kids are under toxic stress and not sleeping enough to recover, their brains won't develop to their full potential. That science is well-understood from animal models and glimpsed in human neuroimaging studies." I'm in education. I'd like to learn more about these statements. Can you recommend what/where I should search?
- robg 8y ago
  Great popular links above. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014576 Unfortunately, the operational definition of stress in most research is still quite bad.

pressurefree 8y ago

how about with a drunk father? they fucking know this. fuck u economist. end capitalism. its midget jews and mexican hogg heads here in southern california.

quantumofmalice 8y ago

The consensus amongst intelligence researchers is that adult intelligence is ~70-80% based on genetic factors. I refer you to The Neuroscience of Intelligence - Cambridge Fundamentals of Neuroscience in Psychology by Richard Haier and the many studies sited therein. We should help poor and less intelligent people for moral reasons, but it is unlikely to improve intelligence in the poorer population and, if the aid is structured dysgenically, it will serve only to compound the problem.

klmr 8y ago
As you are saying, 20–30 per cent of the variability of intelligence is not heritable. In other words, it’s acquired. This contradicts your claim that “[helping them] is unlikely to improve intelligence in the poorer population”. If done correctly, it will improve intelligence.
- quantumofmalice 8y ago
  I am saying that the evidence suggests that 70-80% of adult[1] intelligence is based on genetic factors (that is distinct from heritability, which is lower, ~60% iirc) leaving the remaining 20-30% as unknown environmental factors. Wealth intuitively does play a role in that, although I believe (with as strong of evidence any anyone else does in the matter of environmental outcomes) that a strong parental bond matters more than wealth. Again, my concern is that if unstructured wealth transfer is treated as a panacea, it will end up having compounding dysgenic effects that outweigh whatever short term individual benefits come of it. This will, in the not very long run, make poverty worse. It isn't saving me any karma since people can't be rational about this topic, but I'll stress again that I think we should help the poor for moral reasons. [1] - It is important to specify adult intelligence, because interventions do appear to help childhood IQ, but this effect fades into adulthood and eventual life outcomes. This is why there was a lot of excitement around Head Start initially, but it has failed to produce the large changes in society that was hoped for.
  - heurist 8y ago
    The remaining 20-30% is related to childhood nutrition, education, opportunities to play, learning from peer groups... all of which are heavily impacted by wealth/poverty. And 20-30% is A LOT. Luck plays as much of a role in wealth as intelligence, so to assume that wealthy are more intelligent from genetic reasons and therefore poor families will remain poor is myopic. Unstructured wealth transfer will never happen (except in cryptocurrencies) so I don't think you need to worry about that. The current effort is to get hardheaded free-marketers to recognize that equal opportunity is a myth.

plurgid 8y ago

An interesting question I've had recently, which isn't necessarily directly related to the subject of the article is, "how does access to technology affect brain development?" When I was a kid, my family was dirt poor, in a fairly literal sense. That was the early to mid 80's and while I was reasonably bright as a student, access to technology really did hold me back. I didn't get my hands on a computer until high school (in '90), and that was a broken C-64 that I had to fix myself. I didn't have a TV to connect it to. I had to earn enough to buy an old black and white TV at a garage sale before I could even get it working. My whole life I felt that this is what held me back, and so when the time came, I endeavored to make sure my kids had access to technology if they were interested. But now I see where tech has headed. They've had computers, but mostly pads and phones their entire lives. It seems almost like these platforms have DULLED their imagination to some extent. I wonder in the coming generations, if we will see some sort of correlation with access to tech in one's formative years. Especially given the intentionally addictive nature of many of the apps that have become popular in recent years. Also as tech has become ubiquitous and cheap, access it not entirely defined by economics anymore either. Success is far more than raw intelligence. I'll be interesting to see how all of that plays out in the next generation or two.

Endama 8y ago
My understanding is that the strongest predictors of success that psychologists know about are: 1. Intelligence 2. Conscientiousness [1] It's also my understanding that these factors usually are correlated under 40% as success predictors. Seems that a lot of it is just plain luck and/or environment. I don't see raw intelligence not being important towards success anytime soon but I don't doubt how as access to information/technology increases, that other factors will begin to dominate as differentiating factors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientiousness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientiousness
Xeoncross 8y ago
As a counter point, I've always felt that a main thing holding people back was desire & drive. You not having "it" lead to you cultivating a desire and a drive to acquire. Self motivation > resources

thaumaturgy 8y ago

Some further reading on this subject for those that are interested: Poverty linked to epigenetic changes and mental illness: https://www.nature.com/news/poverty-linked-to-epigenetic-changes-and-mental-illness-1.19972 https://www.nature.com/news/poverty-linked-to-epigenetic-cha... Childhood poverty linked to brain changes related to depression: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/news/childhood-poverty-linked-brain-changes-depression-305208 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/news/childhood-poverty-link... What Poverty Does to Your Brain: https://www.attn.com/stories/2442/effects-poverty-brain-mental-health https://www.attn.com/stories/2442/effects-poverty-brain-ment... What Poverty Does to the Young Brain: https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/what-poverty-does-to-the-young-brain https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/what-poverty-does-to... 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result: http://www.philly.com/philly/health/20130721__Crack_baby__study_ends_with_unexpected_but_clear_result.html http://www.philly.com/philly/health/20130721__Crack_baby__st... How Poverty Taxes the Brain: https://www.citylab.com/life/2013/08/how-poverty-taxes-brain/6716/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2013/08/how-poverty-taxes-brain... Freeing Up Intelligence: https://scholar.harvard.edu/sendhil/publications/freeing-intelligence https://scholar.harvard.edu/sendhil/publications/freeing-int... Growing Up Poor Is Bad for Your Brain: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vvb4gy/growing-up-poor-is-bad-for-your-brain https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vvb4gy/growing-up... These articles should be pretty good reads on the subject. Let me know if any of them are especially weak.

Antimachides 8y ago

Half my childhood I grew up in poor conditions. The stress of everything just drenches you. People traumatizing each other, young and old, in their stress and grief. The poor dull each other. Dulled minds are handed down. Poverty is not just economic fact, it is a state of mind.

wnevets 8y ago
This has been my experience as well. Every day simple things are just harder and more stressful.
tomp 8y ago
Did you escape? If yes, how?
- EarthIsHome 8y ago
  Maybe the commenter was not as poor for the other half of their childhood.
- chaosbutters 8y ago
  The typical answers are: education, military, sports, entertainment. You either need to work hard in education or go join the military and survive or be naturally gifted in sports/music.
  - zuck9 8y ago
    > be naturally gifted in sports/music By this are you referring to ease in college/scholarship acceptance?
  - fao_ 8y ago
    > or be naturally gifted in sports/music. Almost all of the people I have seen called 'gifted' in music are ordinary people that were given the chance to develop in music, both through their parents, and through things like council-funded music/orchestral programs, etc.
  - 8y ago

peter_retief 8y ago

Being poor is not something you can tell someone, you need to live it to experience the horror, you are despised and disrespected for something you had no control over

mrguyorama 8y ago
>something you had no control over A significant contingent of the population does not believe that to be true.
- ythn 8y ago
  Some control over* To say poor people have no control is to say they don't have free agency. They are definitely disadvantaged, but not without some control.
  - moate 8y ago
    This article is specifically discussing brain development in children age 0-3 from families living under the poverty line. Babies cannot control their circumstances, nor do they have any free agency. They are entirely without any control.
- adamsea 8y ago
  Well, when it comes to children at least, they are wrong.
  - mrguyorama 8y ago
    Aye, I do not agree with that idea
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  I think that's covered in the "despised and disrespected" part.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

elvirs 8y ago

I guess thats why im dumb

throwaway5787 8y ago

I grew up poor or lower middle class. But later my parents' finances improved and my siblings grew up upper middle class. I can tell you there is huge difference between my siblings especially youngest and I when it comes to finance and career. 1. They barely save any money, live pretty lavish lifestyle for what they earn. I pretty much focus on saving. Sometimes, I will skip important events, dinners, etc because I haven't met my savings goal. Before I got married, I lived in 33% of after tax income. (My friends split in two groups after college, those who upgraded their lifestyle as they earned more money, and those who either kept college lifestyle as long as possible or did not earn a lot after college to upgrade their life style. I remained friend with later group only.) 2. My siblings don't take shit form their bosses, quit jobs without finding next one. I worry too much about my job, answer phone or emails after work etc. 3. My siblings will quit jobs and travel or find themselves or whatever. I have never ever voluntarily quit job without finding next job. 4. My siblings will risk significant amount of their savings in various ventures. I only invest in index funds. 5. They buy stuff on impulse. I will research best deals. I can go on and on about difference in our mentality but main point is that somehow even with 6 figure income, I fear poverty more than I should. And they pretty much live as if money is unlimited resource. This also causes issues with my wife though she lived in poverty a bit too, so she understands my fears.

pnutjam 8y ago
My background mirrors yours, but I'm not the miser you seem to be. I've never made a six figure income and it took years to get to a comfortable income. I also married and had children young. I've pretty much given up on saving and spend what I can to insure my kids have a brighter future.
etqwzutewzu 8y ago
It is well know that first-born are more risk averse than not-first-born when adults (e.g., they buy more insurances). See references here: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/5802/do-first-borns-buy-more-insurance https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/5802/do-first-b...

carapace 8y ago

Nutrition.

stcredzero 8y ago

There is a study often cited by Thomas Sowell, which is never, ever mentioned by those on the political left in the US and never mentioned by the far right in the US -- as it goes against the narrative of both those groups. The study found that the school aged children of African American servicemen in Germany had the same average IQ as their classmates. Something we're doing to large numbers of urban children in the US is morally equivalent to putting lead in the water. It's largely been the political left in the US which has had control of large urban areas. The culture of the US in the 1st half of the 20th century wasn't harmful in this way. Poles and Italians were able to increase their average IQ's to parity with the US as a whole in that period. African Americans were also making progress in that period, but this stopped in the 1960's. One of the historical patterns which comes across in Thomas Sowell's work is that of minority elites continuing the cultural isolation of their own group to maintain their own power. One of the chief tools of maintaining cultural isolation is identity politics.

sethjgore 8y ago
What is the name of this particular study?
- lr4444lr 8y ago
  Sounds like the Flynn Effect. (Not one study.)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
lev99 8y ago
Here is an article written by Thomas Sowell in case someone wanted to read from him first hand. https://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2002/10/01/race-and-iq-n1000028 https://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2002/10/01/race... I am not well read enough on the subject to have my own opinion. My summary of his words: The average score of an IQ test is defined as 100, so the raw intelligence each score represents changes over time as population intelligence changes over time. Some nations have seen an increase in average IQ of 20 points. There is a difference of IQ between African Americans and the rest of the US population, but that can be explained as being socially isolated, and the same difference can be found in other socially isolated populations. * Edit: I am embarrassed to have linked to such a publication, but will not modify my original words.

jonjojr 8y ago

everything is about the environment. If you have an under stimulating environment then even your health is affected. Read about the WWII pregnant survivors of holocaust where their lack of food evolved into the fetus being stingy with proteins and sugars and now they are experiencing health problems because now their body stores more than it needs and weight gain and other health factors arose. So yes, environment can be detrimental to not only brain, but full physiological development

LinuxBender 8y ago

Could a contributing factor be the quality of food that easier to access when poor? I grew up in a slightly higher than poverty environment and had to cook when my mom was at work. I was probably an exception, all my friends would eat frozen prepared meals and fast food. Calories certainly do not equal proper vitamins, enzymes and amino acids, required for a developing living being. Frozen meals and fast food have plenty of empty calories and can put the body in survival mode, storing more fat and leading to blood sugar issues, to say the least. Thoughts?

ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
Nutrition is definitely a factor, but probably not the major one. I think the number one factor is probably access to parental attention. It's shocking how much better an elementary age student can do when there is a parent to remind them about a homework project that is due. Or be available to answer a question on basic math or the meaning of a word. Even in two equally driven students, self learning gets stuck at home in ways parents can unblock if they have the time and energy to do it.

robg 8y ago

The work by Greenough is a classic on experiences and brain development. e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3038480 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3038480

camdenreslink 8y ago

Growing up poor > More likely to experience lead paint/lead in water > Harmed brain development.

mikeleeorg 8y ago

The book "How Children Succeed: Grit, Curiosity, and the Hidden Power of Character" by Paul Tough is a nice primer on this topic. The book includes findings from the ACE (Adverse Childhood Experiences) study [1] that points at a link between adverse childhood experiences childhood trauma with health and social problems later in life. Of course, growing up in poverty doesn't automatically mean you'll have a higher ACE level, nor does it mean you cannot change your outcomes, but it does tend to offer more traumatic experiences than children outside of poverty. [1] https://www.samhsa.gov/capt/practicing-effective-prevention/prevention-behavioral-health/adverse-childhood-experiences https://www.samhsa.gov/capt/practicing-effective-prevention/...

andrewl 8y ago

There's a researcher at the Center for Neuroscience & Society at the University of Pennsylvania who researches this topic: https://neuroethics.upenn.edu/portfolio-items/childhood-poverty-and-brain-development-from-science-to-policy-martha-j-farah/ https://neuroethics.upenn.edu/portfolio-items/childhood-pove...

Esperaux 8y ago

If someone can't afford a computer they won't be as experienced as someone who can its all about what you can afford and what you are given that helps you grow to your full potential you need to help the poor afford the means to learn if you want them to become more experienced that is basic knowledge.

Regardsyjc 8y ago

In my experience, I have recognized cycles of trauma. My mom grew up in poverty with food insecurity and her dad was an abusive alcoholic- so much that when he passed away it was like good riddance. He was so abusive my grandmother refused to remarry. I didn't grow up with food insecurity but I remember that a $1 ice cream sandwich or slice of pizza was a luxury until I got my first job. My first relationship was with an abusive person. He tried to control what I eat, separate me from my friends and family, and almost destroyed me. It was only when a friend recommended me a book Why Does He Do That? that I recognized in horror that not only was he abusive, I saw the same red flags in another relationship, my parents... Environment is so important, sometimes I see this cycle in others. I'm afraid when you come from an abusive environment sometimes you don't know any better. You don't know how you should or deserve to be treated. I saw a documentary about two young girls that were the first in their families to graduate high school and go to college in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the USA [1]. It was a feel good documentary and then I looked up the students on Facebook. One student was now a teen mom and the other had dropped out of college and was working at McDonald's. She was publicly crying for help on her Facebook personal page on why her life was so miserable. I understand that feeling to feel cursed just for being alive. I believe she may have been bullied by her wealthier classmates... Separated from her support network, bullied, and struggling to learn as well as go to school, I feel like her odds were heavily stacked against her to begin with. (And that's what Shanti Bhavan discovered too. You can't help them go to college and leave them hanging, you have to support them through college). However, I've also seen incredible stories of strength from some of the poorest places on earth. Shanti Bhavan [2], Barefoot College [3], and SECMOL [4] have done and are doing incredible work! My uneducated belief is that what all three of those places have in common is their deep love and unwavering belief for their students whether they are children or an illiterate grandmother training to be a solar engineer- as well as arming them with skills to work and provide for their families (probably the major key- that's how they gain their confidence). Maybe that's one way to tackle poverty as a mental health issue. Help traumatized communities that might be in a cycle of trauma to break abusive mindsets. Teach needed skills, confidence, and financial literacy, so they can believe that they can be more than a teen mom or like my mom, locked in an abusive marriage or relationship from financial dependence. I sincerely hope that poor American children today are not being treated worse than children from families who live with less than $1/day. In that sense, I believe instead of tackling poverty as neurological/biological, we should also investigate the environmental and behavioral. As another movement says, violent communities don't need more police officers but mental health counselors. As for anyone who says that the poor are lazy, please read about the salt farmers of India in Gujarat [5]. Watch My Name is Salt [6] to see how they farm salt for 8 months for almost nothing. You will never be able to call the poor lazy after seeing that. [1] Oyler documentary: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B06ZY7Z66X https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B06ZY7Z66X [2] Daughters of Destiny Netflix documentary: http://www.shantibhavanchildren.org/netflix/ http://www.shantibhavanchildren.org/netflix/ [3] Bunker Roy, founder of Barefoot College TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/bunker_roy https://www.ted.com/talks/bunker_roy [4] Sonam Wangchuk, founder of SECMOL TED talk: https://youtu.be/t5-Dea7rpRg https://youtu.be/t5-Dea7rpRg [4] Jungwa, The Broken Balance is a documentary by a SECMOL grad on how climate change is affecting his home in Ladakh, India: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/jungwathebrokenbalance https://vimeo.com/ondemand/jungwathebrokenbalance [5] https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2016/08/salt-farmers-india-rann-kutch-marshes-160823114732598.html https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2016/08/salt-fa... [6] https://www.amazon.com/My-Name-Salt-Farida-Pacha/dp/B01MDK9N8E https://www.amazon.com/My-Name-Salt-Farida-Pacha/dp/B01MDK9N... More resources on poverty: Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City

arvinsim 8y ago

I don't know about brain development but I think that it tends to encourage narrowmindedess. When you only have a few options and choosing the wrong one is potentially devastating, you tend to zero in on the safe and sure choice. Iterate on this a million times and you have a person who will tend to stick to the status quo and dismiss other options.

Karishma1234 8y ago

Growing up poor I think I had more stress then my peers but there was also an element of street smartness which I realised my friends simply lacked. As poor was pretty shameless asserting my needs or optimising for my benefit at the expense of others where as my rich friends seemed to not understand my selfish behaviour. For example when I was offered a job I negotiated 200% more salary upfront. The HR person was shocked but later we settled on 140% more. Where my other friend made much much less. Poverty is a state of mind but it had other benefits too in my case.

known 8y ago

Scientists have discovered that being poor actually impairs our cognitive abilities; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/the-lasting-impacts-of-po_n_4170124.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/the-lasting-impacts...