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That was a pretty narrow viewpoint. It seemed to lack any consideration of Vietnam as a country or the Vietnamese people affected by his love of war. Do those f
by mcfood 9y ago
That was a pretty narrow viewpoint. It seemed to lack any consideration of Vietnam as a country or the Vietnamese people affected by his love of war. Do those fighting for their countries and lives share that love?
So I guess my takeaway of his point is: War is some special experience that Western Men have (and not women, Vietnamese, or anyone else), where they get to fulfil some kind of murderous power fantasy over people who don't matter?
Maybe this is the sort of story he has to tell himself to ignore the woman he betrayed, the desecrated bodies he laughed at, the utter disregard he held for everything outside himself and his band of brothers.
- ryanmarsh 9y agoWar is some special experience that Western Men have ... where they get to fulfil some kind of murderous power fantasy over people who don't matter? No. Nothing about that is western. That’s just history. War is the most human you’ll ever be. I don’t know how to explain it to someone who doesn’t want to believe their own potential for malevolence. It’s like eating from the forbidden tree in the garden. You’re eyes become open to the savage visceral reality that we’re nothing more than primates that talk.
- placebo 9y agoTrue. Nothing about violence is specifically western. Also true that the reality is that humans have evolved from more primitive animals that are totally driven by survival instincts and thus will usually act that way too (though mostly disguised in more subtle forms than war). What you're missing though (or perhaps deliberately ignoring) is the potential of humans to rise above being marionettes of their animal instinct. Acting by instinct has its upsides sometimes. It certainly brings raw animal gratification but rationalising that we're "nothing more than primates that talk" is just an excuse to enjoy the animal gratification while ignoring the consequences (which beyond hurting other sentient beings also blocks one's way to real freedom, which is the real tragedy).
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- amelius 9y ago> You’re eyes become open to the savage visceral reality that we’re nothing more than primates that talk. If you look at all the accomplishments of mankind in science and art, how can you say that?
- w_t_payne 9y agoHumanity is what happens when we tame human nature.
- erikpukinskis 9y agoI think “civilization” might be a better word for that.
- w_t_payne 9y agoI used 'humanity' to link to humanitarianism and the humanities. Civilisation has ... other connotations.
- erikpukinskis 9y agotame has the same connotations. Anyway you’d have to say more than a one liner if you wanted to have a real conversation about what you meant.
- w_t_payne 9y agoTrue enough.
- ataturk 9y agoAs someone who has probed the depths of his own "malevolence" in very anti-social ways (and with nothing to do with socially acceptable state-sanctioned acts) I understand what you are saying. However, "primates that talk" is not what we aspire to being, at least not me. The enthusiasm that soldiers have for carrying out the policies of their leaders is what bothers me about them. It's really nothing to do with the basic mechanics of killing other than the outright cowardice that technology brings into it all.