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> But I believe that most men who have been to war would have to admit, if they are honest, that somewhere inside themselves they loved it too, loved it as much
by Mononokay 8y ago
> But I believe that most men who have been to war would have to admit, if they are honest, that somewhere inside themselves they loved it too, loved it as much as anything that has happened to them before or since.
This sounds conspicuously like the conservative version of the people who say "All men secretly desire to rape women."
- 1000units 8y agoThose both sound conservative to me, and I'm very conservative.
- mc32 8y agoIs that really a conservative view? I’ve seen that sentiment on decidedly non conservative sites.
- TimTheTinker 8y agoI welcome the day when ideas stand or fall on their own and are no longer pre-judged and rejected because they are “conservative”, “liberal”, “religious”, “scientific”, or whatever.
- 1000units 8y agoMy more educated friends go a step further and start calling things 'Hegelian' and such when I'm just trying to get directly at matters.
- dbasedweeb 8y agoA fun drinking game is to ask them to rigorously define what “Hegelian” is, and every time the explanation becomes pointlessly vague or self-referential, drink. I take no responsibility for the inevitable stomach pumping though.
- 1000units 8y agoI like to ask them to explain how I can build a rocket ship with it.
- erikpukinskis 8y agoHegelian just means that ideas are situated in series: Thesis Antithesis Synthesis/new Thesis Antithesis Synthesis/new Thesis etc... And that while there is truth, there is no true idea. That what we experience as truth is a segment of dialectic that gives us emotional satisfaction enough to stop. But that this is personal and another person might need a longer chain which includes the antithesis of your ultimate (i.e. chain ending) idea.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- reificator 8y agoOr less controversially: "Everybody pees in the shower". No, sorry. I know you want to feel justified for doing so. But no.
- mcphage 8y agoWell, shit. I started doing that ‘cause I heard everyone else was, too...
- themaninthedark 8y agoI started because it saves time, urine is sterile when expelled and I am using soap to wash the rest of me which should clean everything after up. Makes sense to do it then, rather than use an extra couple gallons to flush 500ml of liquid to what is ultimately the same place. I also regularly clean the shower.
- 1000units 8y agoI feel the same way and have even been encouraging my girlfriend (who finds it gross) to try.
- lostlogin 8y ago> urine is sterile when expelled No it isn’t. There are loads of studies saying this, here is one. http://jcm.asm.org/content/early/2013/12/19/JCM.02876-13 http://jcm.asm.org/content/early/2013/12/19/JCM.02876-13
- cobbzilla 8y agoOh jeez, the whole "is urine sterile" debate. Enter on one side, the purists: "sterile means absolutely, positively no germs" Enter on the other side, the realists: "if I pull open my festering sore, and you piss on it, will I get your illness?" The purists say, "well maybe, the probability is not zero, you can't say that is sterile" The realists say, "Run the experiment it 1000 times, and if no one gets infected, what do you call that? What do you call it if 1 out of 1000 gets infected?" What do you say?
- whatshisface 8y agoI think this was written back before "people" became standard, in the 1980s I think "men" was still in vogue. It says men every few words, but that probably meant less than it does now. Aside, I think it's insane to argue that men "love war" while at the same time admitting knowledge of Vietnam. Weak men like to feel tough by pretending to like war, as if a politician would exert themselves more or less by calling in a strike.
- 1000units 8y agoWar is a call to power and a purpose. It's also disgusting, but a man can get used to anything.
- ShabbosGoy 8y agoSince this was written in the 80s and it’s Esquire, it’s highly possible that the author is a military-industrial complex shill. Or an apologist at best. The only people who love war are corrupted individuals. They have no morals.
- TheAdamAndChe 8y agoWhen I was a young man, the military appealed to me. I liked its presentation of power. Its structure, order, and clear roles seemed to provide a sense of purpose. Maybe war itself would be bad, but the structures and forces that war brings seem like they wouldn't necessarily be bad for everyone. Not everyone thinks or feels like you. That doesn't necessarily make them morally corrupt individuals.
- ShabbosGoy 8y ago> Not everyone thinks or feels like you. That doesn't necessarily make them morally corrupt individuals. Who are you trying to convince? :) If violence appeals to you, then by all means, embrace it. If you are a morally wicked person, then embrace it. But denying your true nature is strange to me.
- 8y ago
- almostApatriot1 8y agoWar is to a degree more consensual. BDSM scores very highly in taboo surveys. I don't think the author would say all men love executing POWs or anything like that. Also, not to support that view, but the amount of sexual violence that has historically accompanied war is startling. There's obviously something to it.
- nbsd4life 8y ago> War is to a degree more consensual. Nobody asked me if I wanted to be bombed.
- w_t_payne 8y agoI don't know about consent -- I don't see much consent going on in conflict ... but there is definitely a lot of truth in the link between sexual violence and conflict. Rape has been used as an instrument of war for all of recorded history - as a demonstration of domination; as a means of punishment and repression - and also - just because the men can. Combating the use of rape and sexual violence in conflict is something that we are trying very hard to make progress on ... but it is a very difficult (maybe even impossible) task; human nature being what it is.
- winter_blue 8y ago"All men" or "all people" is a trope that should be erased from our vocabulary. Most statements making claims (esp. about the motivation) of "all people" are incorrect. Every person has their own opinion, and you simply can't generalize. Unless it's naïve tautological claims like "all people need food to survive".
- DanAndersen 8y ago>Every person has their own opinion Perhaps this is also a too-general claim :)
- duncan_bayne 8y agoActually, you really can generalise - about large, and especially about large homogeneous - populations. For example - homosexual men are statistically more likely to belong to larger families. Evolutionary biologists believe that this is due to the presence of childless gay men benefiting the children of their siblings,thus genes that at first blush seem to be "for" non reproduction survive in the pool. (Someone should notify the Boy Scouts that they've got it exactly backwards). What you can't do is generalise about individuals from their group membership (unless that membership is voluntary, and even that is fraught). http://www.freedomkeys.com/ar-racism.htm http://www.freedomkeys.com/ar-racism.htm But yeah, looking at history, it really does seem like a lot of people, across racial, religious and cultural boundaries, loved war.
- BookmarkSaver 8y agoI feel like this is an incredibly childish and almost insulting reduction of a complicated and important feeling that the author is trying to come to terms with, and one that is likely very common, even if not universal. He spent pages explaining and examining this attitude, and doesn't appear to be using it as a justification at any level, I don't think it is appropriate or helpful to frame it this way at all.
- shamaku 8y agoWar is not a natural state of men. It's a fucking dis-ease. Psychopaths love war. Period.