7 ms·

If your comment is meant to be sarcastic, then I am failing to see it... Could you explain what you mean by enslaving as prisoner? So you would let a rapist fr

by mk89 8y ago

If your comment is meant to be sarcastic, then I am failing to see it... Could you explain what you mean by enslaving as prisoner? So you would let a rapist free or what?

galazzah 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow
- mk89 8y ago
  Oh, a novel. Never read that.
  - jMyles 8y ago
    Eh? Did you click the link? It's non-fiction.
    - mk89 8y ago
      Read my comment above as an answer to yours. Sorry, but I don't like this sort of nonfictional books. They kind of miss the point, in my opinion.
jMyles 8y ago
No no, I'm just pointing out that the 13th amendment to the Constitution didn't outlaw slavery entirely, but instead a clause literally beginning with the word "except" - can you imagine? "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except ..." It's candor and obfuscation at the very same time. Here's the rest of the text: "...as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." So now, today, we have more black men under the supervision of the "criminal justice system" (which, like the NSA, is not now and have never been truly tasked with achieving its formal goals) than were enslaved in 1860.
- mk89 8y ago
  The concept of prison the way we intend it is relatively new (let's say a couple of hundred years). So I am not surprised to see that there are still some references to slavery here and there, because that was actually the punishment back then. The reason we have more blacks than white in prison is for dozens reasons: - legacy - cultural differences - social injustice Etc. Don't solve problems, ignore them, expect that people behave the way you want, wait until someone screws up here and here, let it escalate, ignore again and/or apply short term solutions, mix all this stuff, fast forward all of it, and you have the current situation. Just be lucky to be on the right side and have good parents.
  - jMyles 8y ago
    I don't think a single iota of the prison disparity - not one - is attributable to "cultural differences". I also don't think that it is an accident. Drug prohibition was designed precisely - and initially sold expressly - as a way to control black and asian people, and later other people of color. > Don't solve problems, ignore them, expect that people behave the way you want, wait until someone screws up here and here, let it escalate, ignore again and/or apply short term solutions, mix all this stuff, fast forward all of it, and you have the current situation. I think that's pretty reasonable. That's pretty much the point I was trying to make about intelligence agencies as well.
    - Clubber 8y ago
      >initially sold expressly - as a way to control black and asian people, and later other people of color. Hippies too; that's why Nixon choose to schedule pot. https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-rich...
      - jMyles 8y ago
        That was much, much later. I'm talking about the legislative movement that culminated in the Harrison Narcotics Act.
s2g 8y ago
Prisoners are allowed to be slaves under the 13th amendment. You don't have to free them to stop allowing slavery in prison.
- jMyles 8y ago
  I suspect that if prisoners are meaningfully unenslaved (ie, enjoy basic rights to body, fair wages, etc) that the system will suddenly realize that drugs aren't so bad after all. As I matter of legislative priority, however, I think it makes sense to work in the direction direction, ie, to work toward ending drug prohibition with an aim to making a substantial dent in what slavery remains in the USA.
eloff 8y ago
There's a lot of people in prison for things that they shouldn't be, like marijuana possession. Especially blacks and latinos. The US jails about 10 times more people than other developed nations - there's something very wrong with that picture. In the land of the free you actually have the least amount of people actually living free...
coldtea 8y ago
>Could you explain what you mean by enslaving as prisoner? It means having 25% of the world's prison population but only 4% of the world's population. It means being a prison state. It means using BS reasons, like marijuana possession, to imprison a large part of your population. It means predominantly giving long prison sentences for small offenses, just because of an "Old Testament" idea of revenge -- that is carried forward in the culture from the days of the nutty religious minorities that established the country. It means having absurd legal constructs, like "3 strikes" laws. It means exploiting prisoners for free labor, and having private prisons, and other such practices, and being the shame of the western world (and large part of the developing world) in this area. It means people casually joking of people getting raped or attacked in your prisons. It means still having the death penalty in 2018. And other such things...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

by mk89 8y ago

If your comment is meant to be sarcastic, then I am failing to see it... Could you explain what you mean by enslaving as prisoner? So you would let a rapist free or what?

galazzah 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow

mk89 8y ago
Oh, a novel. Never read that.
- jMyles 8y ago
  Eh? Did you click the link? It's non-fiction.
  - mk89 8y ago
    Read my comment above as an answer to yours. Sorry, but I don't like this sort of nonfictional books. They kind of miss the point, in my opinion.

jMyles 8y ago

No no, I'm just pointing out that the 13th amendment to the Constitution didn't outlaw slavery entirely, but instead a clause literally beginning with the word "except" - can you imagine? "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except ..." It's candor and obfuscation at the very same time. Here's the rest of the text: "...as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." So now, today, we have more black men under the supervision of the "criminal justice system" (which, like the NSA, is not now and have never been truly tasked with achieving its formal goals) than were enslaved in 1860.

mk89 8y ago
The concept of prison the way we intend it is relatively new (let's say a couple of hundred years). So I am not surprised to see that there are still some references to slavery here and there, because that was actually the punishment back then. The reason we have more blacks than white in prison is for dozens reasons: - legacy - cultural differences - social injustice Etc. Don't solve problems, ignore them, expect that people behave the way you want, wait until someone screws up here and here, let it escalate, ignore again and/or apply short term solutions, mix all this stuff, fast forward all of it, and you have the current situation. Just be lucky to be on the right side and have good parents.
- jMyles 8y ago
  I don't think a single iota of the prison disparity - not one - is attributable to "cultural differences". I also don't think that it is an accident. Drug prohibition was designed precisely - and initially sold expressly - as a way to control black and asian people, and later other people of color. > Don't solve problems, ignore them, expect that people behave the way you want, wait until someone screws up here and here, let it escalate, ignore again and/or apply short term solutions, mix all this stuff, fast forward all of it, and you have the current situation. I think that's pretty reasonable. That's pretty much the point I was trying to make about intelligence agencies as well.
  - Clubber 8y ago
    >initially sold expressly - as a way to control black and asian people, and later other people of color. Hippies too; that's why Nixon choose to schedule pot. https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-rich...
    - jMyles 8y ago
      That was much, much later. I'm talking about the legislative movement that culminated in the Harrison Narcotics Act.

s2g 8y ago

Prisoners are allowed to be slaves under the 13th amendment. You don't have to free them to stop allowing slavery in prison.

jMyles 8y ago
I suspect that if prisoners are meaningfully unenslaved (ie, enjoy basic rights to body, fair wages, etc) that the system will suddenly realize that drugs aren't so bad after all. As I matter of legislative priority, however, I think it makes sense to work in the direction direction, ie, to work toward ending drug prohibition with an aim to making a substantial dent in what slavery remains in the USA.

eloff 8y ago

There's a lot of people in prison for things that they shouldn't be, like marijuana possession. Especially blacks and latinos. The US jails about 10 times more people than other developed nations - there's something very wrong with that picture. In the land of the free you actually have the least amount of people actually living free...

coldtea 8y ago

>Could you explain what you mean by enslaving as prisoner? It means having 25% of the world's prison population but only 4% of the world's population. It means being a prison state. It means using BS reasons, like marijuana possession, to imprison a large part of your population. It means predominantly giving long prison sentences for small offenses, just because of an "Old Testament" idea of revenge -- that is carried forward in the culture from the days of the nutty religious minorities that established the country. It means having absurd legal constructs, like "3 strikes" laws. It means exploiting prisoners for free labor, and having private prisons, and other such practices, and being the shame of the western world (and large part of the developing world) in this area. It means people casually joking of people getting raped or attacked in your prisons. It means still having the death penalty in 2018. And other such things...

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]