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I'm so longing for a Python(like) compiler. MicroPython put together a Python in 250kb. Why the hell can't we make an LLVM frontend for Python that can use typ

I'm so longing for a Python(like) compiler. MicroPython put together a Python in 250kb. Why the hell can't we make an LLVM frontend for Python that can use type hints for optimization? Sure, you lose some dynamic features as you optimize for speed, but that's the dream. Quickly write a prototype, not caring about types, optimize later with adding types and removing dynamicism. I'm currently learning Racket and LLVM and I have about 70 more years to live. I'm gonna try make Python fast on slow weekends 'til I die.

crististm 8y ago
You might be interested in Matthew Might's course on compilers. In one of his courses he targeted a Python compiler written in his weapon of choice, Racket.
quotemstr 8y ago
Unless your Python compiler can use cpython modules without a massive performance penalty, it's going to see very limited adoption. The ecosystem matters.
- Rotareti 8y ago
  I don't think it would be hard to add type annotations to existing projects, though. Something similar happened in the JS world with the transition of JS projects to TypeScript and it wasn't a big deal, IIRC.
- sitkack 8y ago
  We had a chance with ctypes and now CFFI to move away from the platform calcifying cpython module interface that is overly coupled to the cpython runtime. I am very disappointed in the lack of affordances that cpython gives to alternative pythons to support their work. The stdlib is a crufty mess that is overly coupled to cpython as well. The batteries are corroded and need to be swapped out for a modular pack.
Thrymr 8y ago
> I'm so longing for a Python(like) compiler. There is Cython, of course, which is a great python (+) compiler. I assume you mean a just-in-time compiler as opposed to a static compiler.
- turbinerneiter 8y ago
  No. Pypy already does JIT. And Cython has the speed, but not the size. The target of my phantasy compiler are microcontrollers. That's why the (correct) comment of quotemstr isn't that big of a concern to me.
  - blattimwind 8y ago
    Just throwing Python code at Cython doesn't really improve performance all that dramatically, because it'll be doing pretty much the same thing as the bytecode interpreter, except that all the saucy special-cases are now unrolled many times across all code.
Delgan 8y ago
Isn't it what Numba does quite successfully for a subset of Python? [1]: https://numba.pydata.org/ https://numba.pydata.org/
- turbinerneiter 8y ago
  Not static AOT, not creating tiny binaries that fit on a microcontroller. There is a lot of stuff out there that goes in this direction. There is nukita (again no small binaries), there is even an abandoned GCC frontend that can compile some minimal examples, but has been abandoned long ago. Seriously, the time I spent researching this topic - if a proper compiler engineer would spend that on the actual compiler, it'd be done by now.
  - joejev 8y ago
    You must work fast: https://numba.pydata.org/numba-doc/dev/user/pycc.html https://numba.pydata.org/numba-doc/dev/user/pycc.html
    - mclehman 8y ago
      Seeing as that page states the resulting executables still require numpy, I'd guess it was the static requirement that it misses.
dom96 8y ago
Since you're after micro-controllers you might be interested in Nim. At this year's FOSDEM we showed off some micro-controllers running Nim code[1]. The language is definitely less Python-like than Cython, but it might just be similar enough for your use cases (I started using Nim as a Python replacement). 1 - https://twitter.com/nim_lang/status/959736268870639616 https://twitter.com/nim_lang/status/959736268870639616
- Jedd 8y ago
  For people who don't want to bounce through twitter to get to the home page: https://nim-lang.org/ https://nim-lang.org/

crististm 8y ago

You might be interested in Matthew Might's course on compilers. In one of his courses he targeted a Python compiler written in his weapon of choice, Racket.

quotemstr 8y ago

Unless your Python compiler can use cpython modules without a massive performance penalty, it's going to see very limited adoption. The ecosystem matters.

Rotareti 8y ago
I don't think it would be hard to add type annotations to existing projects, though. Something similar happened in the JS world with the transition of JS projects to TypeScript and it wasn't a big deal, IIRC.
sitkack 8y ago
We had a chance with ctypes and now CFFI to move away from the platform calcifying cpython module interface that is overly coupled to the cpython runtime. I am very disappointed in the lack of affordances that cpython gives to alternative pythons to support their work. The stdlib is a crufty mess that is overly coupled to cpython as well. The batteries are corroded and need to be swapped out for a modular pack.

Thrymr 8y ago

> I'm so longing for a Python(like) compiler. There is Cython, of course, which is a great python (+) compiler. I assume you mean a just-in-time compiler as opposed to a static compiler.

turbinerneiter 8y ago
No. Pypy already does JIT. And Cython has the speed, but not the size. The target of my phantasy compiler are microcontrollers. That's why the (correct) comment of quotemstr isn't that big of a concern to me.
- blattimwind 8y ago
  Just throwing Python code at Cython doesn't really improve performance all that dramatically, because it'll be doing pretty much the same thing as the bytecode interpreter, except that all the saucy special-cases are now unrolled many times across all code.

Delgan 8y ago

Isn't it what Numba does quite successfully for a subset of Python? [1]: https://numba.pydata.org/ https://numba.pydata.org/

turbinerneiter 8y ago
Not static AOT, not creating tiny binaries that fit on a microcontroller. There is a lot of stuff out there that goes in this direction. There is nukita (again no small binaries), there is even an abandoned GCC frontend that can compile some minimal examples, but has been abandoned long ago. Seriously, the time I spent researching this topic - if a proper compiler engineer would spend that on the actual compiler, it'd be done by now.
- joejev 8y ago
  You must work fast: https://numba.pydata.org/numba-doc/dev/user/pycc.html https://numba.pydata.org/numba-doc/dev/user/pycc.html
  - mclehman 8y ago
    Seeing as that page states the resulting executables still require numpy, I'd guess it was the static requirement that it misses.

dom96 8y ago

Since you're after micro-controllers you might be interested in Nim. At this year's FOSDEM we showed off some micro-controllers running Nim code[1]. The language is definitely less Python-like than Cython, but it might just be similar enough for your use cases (I started using Nim as a Python replacement). 1 - https://twitter.com/nim_lang/status/959736268870639616 https://twitter.com/nim_lang/status/959736268870639616

Jedd 8y ago
For people who don't want to bounce through twitter to get to the home page: https://nim-lang.org/ https://nim-lang.org/