4 ms·

What makes you think universal healthcare would be any different? If you recognize the VA's failings, and you blame Republicans for it, what's to stop them fro

What makes you think universal healthcare would be any different? If you recognize the VA's failings, and you blame Republicans for it, what's to stop them from doing it to every "good" idea you have? If a few motivated politicians can ruin the lives of millions those politicians shouldn't have that power in the first place.

Sangermaine 8y ago
>What makes you think universal healthcare would be any different? Because America isn't the entire world and there are many places where socialized healthcare of various forms have been very successfully implemented for a long time. The idea peddled by conservatives in America that the only options for socialized healthcare are inevitable failure or tyranny is simply, demonstrably nonsense. It's exactly this kind of parochial, limited mindset that needs to change.
- rukittenme 8y ago
  Oh yes. Everyone who disagrees with me has a limited mindset. You could have used your open mind to read about a European (within this comment thread) who is having trouble with "the right" in his country: > This is a principal reason why the US was crossed off my list of countries where I would work and live. I fight against the privatization that is occurring within healthcare in my native country, Iceland. We used to have the Scandinavian model but decades of attacks from the right-wing Independence Party has broken our healthcare system. The next phase described by Chomsky is handing it over to private capital since people are outraged that it doesn't work anymore. I'm sickened by the development and feel a little like an old man screaming at the desert wind. It's exactly your kind of Utopian mindset that needs to change. Please read the news of countries other than the US. You might be surprised at the amount of controversy that surrounds universal healthcare systems.
  - jdub 8y ago
    The controversy that surrounds universal healthcare systems goes something like this: "I am disappointed by my treatment in the system!" "Do you want to privatise it?" "Absolutely not."
    - Clubber 8y ago
      In the US, the first sentence holds true, it just costs a lot more.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    How many people out there would honestly be willing to trade their universal healthcare system for a US style system?
    - endtime 8y ago
      Alfie Evans' parents probably would...as would some of the people waiting months to get a simple MRI.
      - monocasa 8y ago
        Alfie Evans didn't have a brain anymore, and would have probably been pulled even quicker in the US system. Insurance agencies are quick to deny funding.
glhaynes 8y ago
So because Republicans will fuck up any government in an effort to prove that government doesn't work, we shouldn't have government?
- veidr 8y ago
  No, in the first place, you shouldn't have a significant percentage of elected officials in the government who will fuck up any government in an effort to prove that government doesn't work. If you do have that, then it is highly unlikely that your country will be able to implement a health care system that is competitive with Canada, Japan, Netherlands, etc. But beyond that, it's very unlikely that your country will be able to implement other fundamentals, such as uncontaminated drinking water, safe schools, etc. In other words, if your country has three branches of government, and the party that controls the executive, legislative, and judicial branches really is willing to fuck up any government in an effort to prove that government doesn't work... then, I'm afraid you are really pretty fucked.
  - Clubber 8y ago
    Ya, that about covers how I feel about it. The GOP strategy is to "starve the beast," unless the beast is military or police spending. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
Daishiman 8y ago
That's not an argument. You can literally say that about very government institution. Governments require somewhat good will from politicians and voters to do their job. Some news. The only reason that system fails is because voters don't care about it. There's nothing exceptionally bad about the US that would not make it so.
stevenwoo 8y ago
That's a single argument in favor of what appears to be some call to remove power from government. The easy counter example is Medicare - we have universal healthcare already for people over the age of 65. Would you say that because the VA doesn't work great in your judgement (people are already coming up with counterexamples within that thread) that we should shut down Medicare?
malyk 8y ago
I think the OP covered this when they said > Until we change our collective view in what the purpose of a government and society is things won’t change significantly. So yeah, if we don't change our collective view, then the republicans (or whomever) will continue to undercut these government run programs as much as possible for their broken ideology.

Sangermaine 8y ago

>What makes you think universal healthcare would be any different? Because America isn't the entire world and there are many places where socialized healthcare of various forms have been very successfully implemented for a long time. The idea peddled by conservatives in America that the only options for socialized healthcare are inevitable failure or tyranny is simply, demonstrably nonsense. It's exactly this kind of parochial, limited mindset that needs to change.

rukittenme 8y ago
Oh yes. Everyone who disagrees with me has a limited mindset. You could have used your open mind to read about a European (within this comment thread) who is having trouble with "the right" in his country: > This is a principal reason why the US was crossed off my list of countries where I would work and live. I fight against the privatization that is occurring within healthcare in my native country, Iceland. We used to have the Scandinavian model but decades of attacks from the right-wing Independence Party has broken our healthcare system. The next phase described by Chomsky is handing it over to private capital since people are outraged that it doesn't work anymore. I'm sickened by the development and feel a little like an old man screaming at the desert wind. It's exactly your kind of Utopian mindset that needs to change. Please read the news of countries other than the US. You might be surprised at the amount of controversy that surrounds universal healthcare systems.
- jdub 8y ago
  The controversy that surrounds universal healthcare systems goes something like this: "I am disappointed by my treatment in the system!" "Do you want to privatise it?" "Absolutely not."
  - Clubber 8y ago
    In the US, the first sentence holds true, it just costs a lot more.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  How many people out there would honestly be willing to trade their universal healthcare system for a US style system?
  - endtime 8y ago
    Alfie Evans' parents probably would...as would some of the people waiting months to get a simple MRI.
    - monocasa 8y ago
      Alfie Evans didn't have a brain anymore, and would have probably been pulled even quicker in the US system. Insurance agencies are quick to deny funding.

glhaynes 8y ago

So because Republicans will fuck up any government in an effort to prove that government doesn't work, we shouldn't have government?

veidr 8y ago
No, in the first place, you shouldn't have a significant percentage of elected officials in the government who will fuck up any government in an effort to prove that government doesn't work. If you do have that, then it is highly unlikely that your country will be able to implement a health care system that is competitive with Canada, Japan, Netherlands, etc. But beyond that, it's very unlikely that your country will be able to implement other fundamentals, such as uncontaminated drinking water, safe schools, etc. In other words, if your country has three branches of government, and the party that controls the executive, legislative, and judicial branches really is willing to fuck up any government in an effort to prove that government doesn't work... then, I'm afraid you are really pretty fucked.
- Clubber 8y ago
  Ya, that about covers how I feel about it. The GOP strategy is to "starve the beast," unless the beast is military or police spending. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

Daishiman 8y ago

That's not an argument. You can literally say that about very government institution. Governments require somewhat good will from politicians and voters to do their job. Some news. The only reason that system fails is because voters don't care about it. There's nothing exceptionally bad about the US that would not make it so.

stevenwoo 8y ago

That's a single argument in favor of what appears to be some call to remove power from government. The easy counter example is Medicare - we have universal healthcare already for people over the age of 65. Would you say that because the VA doesn't work great in your judgement (people are already coming up with counterexamples within that thread) that we should shut down Medicare?

malyk 8y ago

I think the OP covered this when they said > Until we change our collective view in what the purpose of a government and society is things won’t change significantly. So yeah, if we don't change our collective view, then the republicans (or whomever) will continue to undercut these government run programs as much as possible for their broken ideology.