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When the issue of universal health care comes up with regards to US policy I often see those emotional arguments pulling on the heart strings. Unfortunately, t
by austincheney 9y ago
When the issue of universal health care comes up with regards to US policy I often see those emotional arguments pulling on the heart strings. Unfortunately, this is a distraction.
I know this sounds cold, but it comes down to money. Healthcare in America is expensive. The problems appear to be commonly identified by various forms of research and including things like pricing inefficiencies of drugs, malpractice insurance, and administrative inefficiencies.
The problem isn't as simple as blaming medical insurance providers, pricing, or fees. The problems appeared be directly associated to the processes in place, or in the case of drug prices missing pricing regulation. Drug pricing regulation does exist for the VA which has a set pricing schedule, but everybody else gets to pay more.
In order for universal healthcare to come into fruition in the US these cost inefficiencies have to be addressed. If universal healthcare is important for you then these financial and administrative problems are what you should solve for.
- slantedview 9y agoFun fact that most Americans don't know: We _ALREADY_ spend more than enough on healthcare as a nation to fully fund healthcare for everybody. It's just that, unlike in other countries, our current system routes that spending to various for profit entities that don't involve actually providing care. tldr; Lack of funding is not a legitimate argument against providing healthcare to Americans.
- austincheney 9y agoDoesn't that suggest health care in America is too expensive? Increasing funding to an inefficient system doesn't sound like a sustainable or extensible solution.
- Daishiman 9y agoThe inefficiency is in the private sector.
- conanbatt 9y agoMedicare is just as expensive, and the government is what makes drugs, doctors, malpractice and opening facilities so expensive. So no.
- Daishiman 9y agoOther governments don't have a problem making it cheaper.
- conanbatt 9y agoYou will also find other governments with public healthcare make a complete mess of itself. What makes health care expensive in the US is not public vs private, its the regulatory framework on everything. On drugs, on hospitals, on insurance, on doctors, on malpractice, etc.
- mac01021 9y ago> We _ALREADY_ spend more than enough on healthcare as a nation to fully fund healthcare for everybody. I would like to see a study or article demonstrating this. Do you have any links?
- dv_dt 9y agohttps://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/snapshots-health-care-spending-in-the-united-states-selected-oecd-countries/ https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/snapshots-healt... http://cepr.net/blogs/cepr-blog/life-expectancy-and-u-s-health-care-spending-an-international-comparison http://cepr.net/blogs/cepr-blog/life-expectancy-and-u-s-heal... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/health-costs-how-the-us-...
- aninhumer 9y agoThe point I usually see is that the US government healthcare spending per capita is comparable that of other developed countries with universal healthcare.
- jkingsbery 9y agoWhile true, in healthcare, a lot of the incentives that for-profit entities experience are put in place by the government. For example, a lot of the economics around pharma are driven by patent laws.
- 0xfeba 9y agoAnd who lobbied for those patent laws?
- SilasX 9y agoBut that also means that if you could fix the cost bloat, it would be much easier to provide universal coverage, and that trying to do the latter before addressing the former is bound to fail.
- slantedview 9y agoCosts are high, largely, because we have a fragmented mess of a system rather than a single payer.
- SilasX 9y agoHow do you know that that, rather than something else, accounts for the high costs? Edit: for example, Scott Alexander's point about US providers feeling they have to provide expensive treatment just to cover the possibility of a lawsuit: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost-disease/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost-... Edit2: Also, Germany, the Netherlands, Singapore, and several others have typical cost savings but aren't single payer.
- slantedview 9y agoCosts are high for many reasons, but having for profit companies whose own overheads far exceed those of public options (such as Medicare) are the the most obvious contributor.
- conanbatt 9y agoIf private insurace cost as much as medicare you wouldnt still have rising cost of healthcare. Medicare has less admin cost but also they pay the least to providers. I would not adovcate for public health in the us before the government fixes medicare.
- Pharylon 9y agoI don't think emotional arguments are a distraction, they're the whole point. This is a moral issue. Other countries manage to have universal healthcare and it doesn't break the bank. In fact, they spend less per person. The fiscal argument is the distraction.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- conanbatt 9y ago> I don't think emotional arguments are a distraction, they're the whole point. This is a moral issue. I find the moral argument to be disingenuous. It is immoral to make poor people pay a tax that cure the diseases of rich people. "Nobody should go hungry, so everyone should be able to eat anywhere they want and not look at the tab".
- Pharylon 9y agoDisingenuous? You think people arguing that it's immoral for someone to die because they were born poor are not actually sincere in their argument? Tell me, what is my evil ulterior motive? Do I actually just want to increase taxes for the hell of it?
- austincheney 9y ago> You think people arguing that it's immoral for someone to die because they were born poor are not actually sincere in their argument? That would depend upon the specifics of the argument at hand. I also don't think increased funding is a solution to the problem.
- conanbatt 9y agoOf course its not a sincere argument: I believe that you can believe it, but its insincere at least to yourself to say that the reason healthcare should be universally provided through government is for the poor. If you cared for the poor the argument is to make food stamps for healthcare services, not universal. Universal is also for yourself. So yes, it is disingenuous to say that which is best for your is also best for the poor. Reminds me to the typical argument that college should be free so poor people can go, but ultimately, middle class and up go. Healthcare is similar: the richer live longer, which means they live more of the most expensive healthcare years.
- mikeash 9y agoSeems like you have the cart before the horse. Universal health care would be a way to address those inefficiencies and solve those financial and administrative problems.
- austincheney 9y agoThat very well may be, but I have not seen any research suggesting this.
- stevenwoo 9y agoDoes the healthcare marketplace of every civilized country of the world outside of the United States not count as research or an experiment in real life consequences?
- austincheney 9y agoNo, I don't think these alternate examples are relevant. I suspect, and this is not my field of expertise, the largest differentiator is history. The US has been developing its health care system, uninterrupted, longer than other nations. It is much easier, politically, to build a great system if you start from scratch and have excellent examples at hand of what not to do as compared to modifying a deeply entrenched system in current operation.
- DomreiRoam 9y ago"The US has been developing its health care system, uninterrupted, longer than other nations." I don't understand this. How do you define Health care system? because we have care institutions that predates the foundation of the USA.
- mikeash 9y agoOther countries’ socialized systems didn’t just pop into existence fully formed. I’m pretty sure the health care industry in other countries is about as old as ours.
- commandlinefan 9y agoI've always wondered to what extent the high cost of health care in the US is subsidizing universal health care in other countries. If it actually costs millions of dollars to create and test a single medication, but that medication is cheap in other countries and expensive in the US, universal health care in the US may drive up the actual cost everywhere else.
- austincheney 9y agoEconomically speaking I am ok with that. Easier access to a product universally will lower its cost per consumption on average even if that average is a price spike for certain locales. This is a way of saying the outcome benefitting the most people isn't necessarily universally beneficial.
- vilmosi 9y agoDrug costs are a fraction of healthcare costs though.
- bborud 9y agoHealthcare is expensive because of the three-way symbiosis between insurance companies, drug companies and regulation that is designed to only take care of the aforementioned.
- beeftime 9y agoGood point. Totally remove the profit motive from healthcare. Establish a monopsony on medicine through the US government. Hang the ghouls that enrich themselves by throwing families into lifetimes of debt only to further enrich themselves.