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"The characteristic feature of the loser is to bemoan, in general terms, mankind's flaws, biases, contradictions, and irrationality — without exploiting them fo

"The characteristic feature of the loser is to bemoan, in general terms, mankind's flaws, biases, contradictions, and irrationality — without exploiting them for fun and profit" -Taleb OP: If you want to make some money with this, send me an email. I get about 3 requests a week from get-rich-quick-minded people who want their own crypto. Not serious players, not credible businesspeople, just average Joes who want to get in while the getting's good. They would probably pay $500 or more. We could make this work.

VikingCoder 8y ago
What a fantastic quote.
- johnfactorial 8y ago
  I think its a villainous and cynical quote, but I expect no less from mankind with all its flaws and biases, contradictions and irrationality.
  - mjburgess 8y ago
    The loser is, at least, a person who thinks that way.
    - vertexFarm 8y ago
      It's nice when you can define yourself as clever and everyone else as a loser with an arbitrary quote. It doesn't really carry any weight, though.
      - mjburgess 8y ago
        See now I wasn't doing that. But here you are decrying oneupsmanship by trying to one-up me. And telling me the weight of my words at the same time you say oneupsmanship carrys no weight. Do you realise that you are the thing you dislike? In this instance, I was remarking that a person who thinks of themself as a loser is also the person who is likely to have adopted this cynical and resentful worldview. A person who opts into this "winner/loser" dynamic has already adopted the world view of one who can lose and will do so. Living-out-your-values doesnt entail winning or losing anything, rather, it is life measured by authenticity and integrity not "victory". The low self-regard, resentment and entitlement in this search for "victory" is fair game for mine and any one elses criticism. I dont need you to tell me the weight of my words, they are weighed according to my values, not yours.
  - chickenfries 8y ago
    In my mind, there are worse things to be in life than a loser, by Taleb's definition. Far worse to be someone who takes pleasure in exploiting the ignorance of his fellow man, in my book. This is the kind of view that sees someone like Trump as a winner in business, rather than someone who doesn't pay his bills, has an enormous amount of debt, and takes money that was supposed to go to St. Jude's from his son's charity organization. > And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. I'm not christian, but I've always loved this quote. It's not about god punishing people for being rich, it's that being rich and worshipping money above all else makes it very, very hard to be a good person.
    - VikingCoder 8y ago
      The end of the quote is "fun and profit." I think you jumped to economic profit for an individual. But I think we should think of the good of the many. Hans Rosling talked about nations that are opt-in for organ donation, versus nations that are opt-out for organ donation. Turns out, people don't change the default. So, opt-out organ donation is MUCH BETTER for everyone. That's an example of exploiting human behavior for the benefit of all. Fun and Profit. =)
      - chickenfries 8y ago
        > I think you jumped to economic profit for an individual. Do you actually think my reading is unreasonable? Somehow I think Hans Rosling would use a different phrase than "for fun and profit." The phrase "for fun and profit" heavily connotes economic profit. Especially coming from Taleb, and especially on HN. But sure, if I take the less common meaning of profit (a benefit) then yes there is nothing selfish about this quote. Edit: Furthermore, this post is about worthless crypto currencies and exploiting the ignorant.
        VikingCoder 8y ago
        Your read is 100% reasonable. I just delight in cataloging those human failings, and being confronted with the message "SO EXPLOIT THEM, ALREADY!" resonates strongly with me. Like, as a for instance, we spend more on the lottery than we do on tons of other stuff combined. [1] And sure, that's neat, it helps pay for some things in states... But that's ridiculously harmful to those who can least afford it. Well, how about if we figure out how to do some good? On FB right now I'm kibitzing with some of my educator friends about trying to gamify education more. Original thought, right? :) But really, this is what we're doing. Exploiting human faults, and trying to do good with them. Humans like semi-varied reward schedules. So, exploit that, and teach them. What other human flaws can we exploit? =D [1] http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/11/news/companies/lottery-spending/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/11/news/companies/lottery-spend...
sharemywin 8y ago
Their might be personalized vanity angle to it. Why wouldn't my friend and family want to trade Bob Coins...
vrepsys 8y ago
We meant this website to be funny and hopefully educational. But perhaps there could be a paid version with more features, like a small website for your cryptocurrency with a logo etc.
- notahacker 8y ago
  Surely the cryptogold rush equivalent of selling spades during the original gold rush!
  - jspash 8y ago
    More like selling those silly clip-on beards and a plastic spade so you can look like an olde-tyme prospector, but not actually give you any skills or leverage.
- gexla 8y ago
  Feature creep already? You have already launched. Add Stripe and go! While you're adding features, can you offer "customer support?" I don't need to actually answer the thing. I just need for it to loop in some elevator music with an occasional robot voice which says "please hold" at random intervals. ETA: I think the site is fine. People will still be interested in using this even if it's meant to be a joke. I bet some people will even be disappointed that the name "crapcoin" is already being used.
everdev 8y ago
Exploiting the problem instead of helping, might be part of the problem. It's a moral question, so there's no right answer, but plenty of us come down on the other side thinking that we're better off in the long run not taking every shortcut we see. It's a race to the bottom and profit at any cost that we've seen be destructive in the long run. There's not a person on this planet that can't be sold some crap with the right pitch. Like Trump said, you play into their wildest fantasies and then let their imagination run wild. But, just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. We all make significant investments in life (stock, real estate, cars, business ventures, etc.) and it's rare to find someone who's well versed in each of those areas. At some point we have to trust each other. When it comes time to spend that money you earned off of average Joe's, I hope you're not the average Joe in the next equation.
nck4222 8y ago
Interesting to see this comment here, and upvoted. I think it shows just how divergent the news.ycombinator community has diverged from ycombinator (the incubator). Or maybe the community is simply a reflection of what the incubator has become. If you look at ycombinator's about or principles page, it's filled with words like helping, teaching, advise, benevolence. I for one, disagree wholeheartedly with the spirit of that quote, and find it disappointing to see it here. I'll finish with a couple quotes found on other pages on this site that I hope still reflect the the purpose of this community/incubator: "The most successful founders are motivated less by money than by a consuming interest in what they’re building." "...empirically the benefits of benevolence are greater than the costs" http://www.ycombinator.com/principles/ http://www.ycombinator.com/principles/
- jrq 8y ago
  But do you seriously believe that the most successful founders' comments are represented in news.yc? HN is about denominators. We all want to get rich. Some of us are willing to work, some of us are willing to hustle, etc. The ideals of YC don't correspond to Internet commenters. Hell, half of the comments here probably don't even correspond to the true intent of the author's opinion. Disclaimer: I'm just some moron on the Internet. No need to wax philosophical over Internet comments.
  - Blahah 8y ago
    We really don't all want to get rich. Some of us just want to solve problems, help people, or alleviate suffering. Some people want to achieve that by getting rich first (not me). A large proportion of even those who want to get rich for selfish reasons don't want to do that by screwing other people over.
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      I wanted to solve problems without money, but I quickly realized that I can solve significantly more problems with money, than with less money. I sold out, took a high paying job. I pay interns to write articles and finance a charity. I spend my evenings writing an app(that I hope makes billions). I can only imagine how many people my charity will teach healthy, low cost food skills if I had millions at my disposal. Its kinda awful, but if I dont do it, I dont think anyone is going to teach kids how to cook low cost foods.
herbst 8y ago
I had the same and 99% of the ideas were Overly complicated and simply did not understand the limitations of Ethereum. Not saying you have the same, but if you didn't listen to those individual ideas yet I doubt EC20 tokens would do the job.
Blahah 8y ago
Taleb is intellectually dishonest and quite probably a terrible human being. His strategy of making money exploiting anti-intellectual movements to do with agriculture and human nutrition is just abhorrent to me. He transparently and carefully constructs the minimal argument required to garner support from existing, factually misguided activists. Your quote actually highlights the entire problem with his approach. He's a charlatan, making money by identifying exploitable social waves that act against the best interests of society, and lending them his intellectual credit.
- lmoml 8y ago
  Agreed. Roman Republican ethics (2000+ years ago) held as a core value the idea that your legacy is more important than personal gain, and that just because you _can_ do a thing, that does not mean that it is best that you do it. Taking advantage of opportunities for personal gain at a net loss to society is childishly small-minded, and ignores the fact that the best elements of society were built by people doing the exact opposite because they had the wisdom to know that it was a more dignified way to conduct one's self in one's short window of existence.
Giorgi 8y ago
That quote sounds like something scumartists would say

VikingCoder 8y ago

What a fantastic quote.

johnfactorial 8y ago
I think its a villainous and cynical quote, but I expect no less from mankind with all its flaws and biases, contradictions and irrationality.
- mjburgess 8y ago
  The loser is, at least, a person who thinks that way.
  - vertexFarm 8y ago
    It's nice when you can define yourself as clever and everyone else as a loser with an arbitrary quote. It doesn't really carry any weight, though.
    - mjburgess 8y ago
      See now I wasn't doing that. But here you are decrying oneupsmanship by trying to one-up me. And telling me the weight of my words at the same time you say oneupsmanship carrys no weight. Do you realise that you are the thing you dislike? In this instance, I was remarking that a person who thinks of themself as a loser is also the person who is likely to have adopted this cynical and resentful worldview. A person who opts into this "winner/loser" dynamic has already adopted the world view of one who can lose and will do so. Living-out-your-values doesnt entail winning or losing anything, rather, it is life measured by authenticity and integrity not "victory". The low self-regard, resentment and entitlement in this search for "victory" is fair game for mine and any one elses criticism. I dont need you to tell me the weight of my words, they are weighed according to my values, not yours.
- chickenfries 8y ago
  In my mind, there are worse things to be in life than a loser, by Taleb's definition. Far worse to be someone who takes pleasure in exploiting the ignorance of his fellow man, in my book. This is the kind of view that sees someone like Trump as a winner in business, rather than someone who doesn't pay his bills, has an enormous amount of debt, and takes money that was supposed to go to St. Jude's from his son's charity organization. > And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. I'm not christian, but I've always loved this quote. It's not about god punishing people for being rich, it's that being rich and worshipping money above all else makes it very, very hard to be a good person.
  - VikingCoder 8y ago
    The end of the quote is "fun and profit." I think you jumped to economic profit for an individual. But I think we should think of the good of the many. Hans Rosling talked about nations that are opt-in for organ donation, versus nations that are opt-out for organ donation. Turns out, people don't change the default. So, opt-out organ donation is MUCH BETTER for everyone. That's an example of exploiting human behavior for the benefit of all. Fun and Profit. =)
    - chickenfries 8y ago
      > I think you jumped to economic profit for an individual. Do you actually think my reading is unreasonable? Somehow I think Hans Rosling would use a different phrase than "for fun and profit." The phrase "for fun and profit" heavily connotes economic profit. Especially coming from Taleb, and especially on HN. But sure, if I take the less common meaning of profit (a benefit) then yes there is nothing selfish about this quote. Edit: Furthermore, this post is about worthless crypto currencies and exploiting the ignorant.
      - VikingCoder 8y ago
        Your read is 100% reasonable. I just delight in cataloging those human failings, and being confronted with the message "SO EXPLOIT THEM, ALREADY!" resonates strongly with me. Like, as a for instance, we spend more on the lottery than we do on tons of other stuff combined. [1] And sure, that's neat, it helps pay for some things in states... But that's ridiculously harmful to those who can least afford it. Well, how about if we figure out how to do some good? On FB right now I'm kibitzing with some of my educator friends about trying to gamify education more. Original thought, right? :) But really, this is what we're doing. Exploiting human faults, and trying to do good with them. Humans like semi-varied reward schedules. So, exploit that, and teach them. What other human flaws can we exploit? =D [1] http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/11/news/companies/lottery-spending/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/11/news/companies/lottery-spend...

sharemywin 8y ago

Their might be personalized vanity angle to it. Why wouldn't my friend and family want to trade Bob Coins...

vrepsys 8y ago

We meant this website to be funny and hopefully educational. But perhaps there could be a paid version with more features, like a small website for your cryptocurrency with a logo etc.

notahacker 8y ago
Surely the cryptogold rush equivalent of selling spades during the original gold rush!
- jspash 8y ago
  More like selling those silly clip-on beards and a plastic spade so you can look like an olde-tyme prospector, but not actually give you any skills or leverage.
gexla 8y ago
Feature creep already? You have already launched. Add Stripe and go! While you're adding features, can you offer "customer support?" I don't need to actually answer the thing. I just need for it to loop in some elevator music with an occasional robot voice which says "please hold" at random intervals. ETA: I think the site is fine. People will still be interested in using this even if it's meant to be a joke. I bet some people will even be disappointed that the name "crapcoin" is already being used.

everdev 8y ago

Exploiting the problem instead of helping, might be part of the problem. It's a moral question, so there's no right answer, but plenty of us come down on the other side thinking that we're better off in the long run not taking every shortcut we see. It's a race to the bottom and profit at any cost that we've seen be destructive in the long run. There's not a person on this planet that can't be sold some crap with the right pitch. Like Trump said, you play into their wildest fantasies and then let their imagination run wild. But, just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. We all make significant investments in life (stock, real estate, cars, business ventures, etc.) and it's rare to find someone who's well versed in each of those areas. At some point we have to trust each other. When it comes time to spend that money you earned off of average Joe's, I hope you're not the average Joe in the next equation.

nck4222 8y ago

Interesting to see this comment here, and upvoted. I think it shows just how divergent the news.ycombinator community has diverged from ycombinator (the incubator). Or maybe the community is simply a reflection of what the incubator has become. If you look at ycombinator's about or principles page, it's filled with words like helping, teaching, advise, benevolence. I for one, disagree wholeheartedly with the spirit of that quote, and find it disappointing to see it here. I'll finish with a couple quotes found on other pages on this site that I hope still reflect the the purpose of this community/incubator: "The most successful founders are motivated less by money than by a consuming interest in what they’re building." "...empirically the benefits of benevolence are greater than the costs" http://www.ycombinator.com/principles/ http://www.ycombinator.com/principles/

jrq 8y ago
But do you seriously believe that the most successful founders' comments are represented in news.yc? HN is about denominators. We all want to get rich. Some of us are willing to work, some of us are willing to hustle, etc. The ideals of YC don't correspond to Internet commenters. Hell, half of the comments here probably don't even correspond to the true intent of the author's opinion. Disclaimer: I'm just some moron on the Internet. No need to wax philosophical over Internet comments.
- Blahah 8y ago
  We really don't all want to get rich. Some of us just want to solve problems, help people, or alleviate suffering. Some people want to achieve that by getting rich first (not me). A large proportion of even those who want to get rich for selfish reasons don't want to do that by screwing other people over.
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    I wanted to solve problems without money, but I quickly realized that I can solve significantly more problems with money, than with less money. I sold out, took a high paying job. I pay interns to write articles and finance a charity. I spend my evenings writing an app(that I hope makes billions). I can only imagine how many people my charity will teach healthy, low cost food skills if I had millions at my disposal. Its kinda awful, but if I dont do it, I dont think anyone is going to teach kids how to cook low cost foods.

herbst 8y ago

I had the same and 99% of the ideas were Overly complicated and simply did not understand the limitations of Ethereum. Not saying you have the same, but if you didn't listen to those individual ideas yet I doubt EC20 tokens would do the job.

Blahah 8y ago

Taleb is intellectually dishonest and quite probably a terrible human being. His strategy of making money exploiting anti-intellectual movements to do with agriculture and human nutrition is just abhorrent to me. He transparently and carefully constructs the minimal argument required to garner support from existing, factually misguided activists. Your quote actually highlights the entire problem with his approach. He's a charlatan, making money by identifying exploitable social waves that act against the best interests of society, and lending them his intellectual credit.

lmoml 8y ago
Agreed. Roman Republican ethics (2000+ years ago) held as a core value the idea that your legacy is more important than personal gain, and that just because you _can_ do a thing, that does not mean that it is best that you do it. Taking advantage of opportunities for personal gain at a net loss to society is childishly small-minded, and ignores the fact that the best elements of society were built by people doing the exact opposite because they had the wisdom to know that it was a more dignified way to conduct one's self in one's short window of existence.

Giorgi 8y ago

That quote sounds like something scumartists would say