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Your last paragraph is no longer really correct. The largest rewards have for some time been going to equity plays and financial schemes. You don't build a comp

by api 9y ago

Your last paragraph is no longer really correct. The largest rewards have for some time been going to equity plays and financial schemes. You don't build a company for customers but for the next round of investors, and your product is its stock. In the extreme these can be highly clever and polished versions of the "big store" scam where nearly all actual value is flimsy or illusory. This is because all the money is now at the top. Your customers are the ones who can pay. A related phenomenon is Internet companies where the user is the product. Advertisers and others who want user data or access to attention have far more money to spend than users. Computing has transformed into a surveillance platform to monetize users because users are not the ones paying for anything.

WillReplyfFood 9y ago
Its basically rewarded to be a black hat hacker- you scam your way into a industry, take it over from its previous owners - repackage the whole thing and try to get out before any liability could hit you. Obviously nothing of value is here created- a bank-robber doesent create value, he redistributes it - from the bank to himsel. Same goes for Ueber- it takes pre-existing value (taxi services)- reduces the wages and worker protection- and leaves with its share before the police arrive. To call that innovation is really a insult to the likes of tesla and einstein.
lajhsdfkl 9y ago
> The largest rewards have for some time been going to equity plays and financial schemes The largest rewards are going to people using their money to finance the creation of businesses that create products people want to buy? Yeah that makes sense to me.
- amarkov 9y ago
  You're mixing up levels of indirection. Financing the creation of businesses that create products people want to buy isn't itself an example of "practical products that provide value that the average working class person would want to spend money on". You can say that what our system rewards is always derived from practical products the average person wants, but that doesn't seem like a useful way to think about things.
  - lajhsdfkl 9y ago
    Can you explain to me in simple words what you are refuting in your comment? Nowhere did I suggest that the only way to become rich was to sell practical products. I will state that this is the primary way people acquire vast amounts of money and that whether people become rich via second order and abstract systems such as financing makes no difference. Ultimately the products would not exist without the financial system that was in place.
    - amarkov 9y ago
      It's a lot easier to get a $250k position at Morgan Stanley than build a business generating $250k in profit. If more people go the latter route, that's just a matter of a larger denominator, not an indication of what's actually being rewarded.
- api 9y ago
  The last part about value for customers is optional for as long as there are deeper pocketed investors. Given the concentration of wealth at the top that might be a long long time. I also edited my comment to mention user monetization, which is a related phenomenon.
  - lajhsdfkl 9y ago
    > The last part about value for customers is optional for as long as there are deeper pocketed investors I don't understand what you mean by this? Is this a comment about the current startup funding phenomenon?

by api 9y ago

WillReplyfFood 9y ago

Its basically rewarded to be a black hat hacker- you scam your way into a industry, take it over from its previous owners - repackage the whole thing and try to get out before any liability could hit you. Obviously nothing of value is here created- a bank-robber doesent create value, he redistributes it - from the bank to himsel. Same goes for Ueber- it takes pre-existing value (taxi services)- reduces the wages and worker protection- and leaves with its share before the police arrive. To call that innovation is really a insult to the likes of tesla and einstein.

lajhsdfkl 9y ago

> The largest rewards have for some time been going to equity plays and financial schemes The largest rewards are going to people using their money to finance the creation of businesses that create products people want to buy? Yeah that makes sense to me.

amarkov 9y ago
You're mixing up levels of indirection. Financing the creation of businesses that create products people want to buy isn't itself an example of "practical products that provide value that the average working class person would want to spend money on". You can say that what our system rewards is always derived from practical products the average person wants, but that doesn't seem like a useful way to think about things.
- lajhsdfkl 9y ago
  Can you explain to me in simple words what you are refuting in your comment? Nowhere did I suggest that the only way to become rich was to sell practical products. I will state that this is the primary way people acquire vast amounts of money and that whether people become rich via second order and abstract systems such as financing makes no difference. Ultimately the products would not exist without the financial system that was in place.
  - amarkov 9y ago
    It's a lot easier to get a $250k position at Morgan Stanley than build a business generating $250k in profit. If more people go the latter route, that's just a matter of a larger denominator, not an indication of what's actually being rewarded.
api 9y ago
The last part about value for customers is optional for as long as there are deeper pocketed investors. Given the concentration of wealth at the top that might be a long long time. I also edited my comment to mention user monetization, which is a related phenomenon.
- lajhsdfkl 9y ago
  > The last part about value for customers is optional for as long as there are deeper pocketed investors I don't understand what you mean by this? Is this a comment about the current startup funding phenomenon?