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And yet, if either my hometown (population 6,000 when I left), or the small town where I went to college (35,000) had retained their downtowns and their walkabi

And yet, if either my hometown (population 6,000 when I left), or the small town where I went to college (35,000) had retained their downtowns and their walkability, I might still live in them. I don't farm, I don't work in a factory. But I do telecommute, so I can set up shop pretty much anywhere. And I do have a soft spot for the kind of small town full of character that I spent my childhood roving semi ferally with my friends and our bikes, popping in and out of ice cream shops, chalking up the sidewalks, buying trinkets at the variety store, playing in the town playground, etc. I'd like for my kids to have something like that. The closest approximation I can find seems to be a city with a population in excess of 1 million. Or at least, that's where the sidewalks and community playgrounds are.

s0rce 9y ago
I've seen touristy little towns with walkable downtown areas in USA. Walla Walla, WA and Wallace, ID. come to mind.
ggg9990 9y ago
Those kinds of communities aren’t created by towns full of telecommuting programmers — they are created by diverse economic activity and people out on the street doing their jobs.
- qaq 9y ago
  Hmm nothing says it can't be created by telecommuting programmers. Get 10K people to pitch in 10K a pop and that's 100 mil to buy land and start a town
  - ebiester 9y ago
    It’s been in my head for a while - finding an area with good weather and a farm landowner willing to sell. I would love to find a developer with core competencies - we used to build cities because of common interest. Why can’t we do it today?
    - qaq 9y ago
      No clue why none has done it so far I guess idea for kick starter :)
    - pault 9y ago
      Historically those towns were most likely built around a common economic interest; intersection of trade routes, mining, logging, etc. The town was created because the people were already there. As far as I know artificial communities don't seem very resilient. I guess 10,000 telecommuting programmers could support a pretty robust economy, but it sounds like a bit of a pipe dream, honestly.
      - ebiester 9y ago
        I think a set of programmers seems like a common economic interest. At 10,000, that’s enough that it won't only be telecommuting at some point. You would likely need a fair amount of additional labor. The alternative is finding a struggling city with good bones that is willing to take a chance, but that can introduce all sorts of hostilities.
        qaq 9y ago
        Starting fresh gives you a lot of interesting options
- Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
  Kind of. I live in a town with a population of 3,000 which has a town playground, kids whizzing around on bikes, a handful of little local shops (plus four pubs), etc... and yet it's full of telecommuting programmers. The main disadvantage is that property prices are high, largely caused by the real commuters rather than the telecommuters (we have a mainline railway station); and that's meant a slow decline in the number of local shops simply because conversion to residential use is much more lucrative. But we've pretty much stabilised now. This is in the UK, and it's not rare over here - there's quite a niche for slightly boho, close-knit small towns. Hebden Bridge, Stroud and Frome are the best known (populations 4.5k, 12k, 26k respectively) but there are plenty more.
  - isostatic 9y ago
    Which town is that? Hebden Bridge I always got the impression was a bit touristy (as well as being the lesbian capital of the country). A bit further south to Marsden, also on a rail line into Manchester and Leeds, is remarkably cheap
- im3w1l 9y ago
  Well assuming those people out on the streets doing their jobs want to "import" goods, the town needs to "export" something. Code is one possible export.
- hinkley 9y ago
  No, but if you’re trying to balance your imports and exports get to g some telecommuters certainly helps. Part of what kills small towns is all the money draining out. Big box stores accelerated that because nothing but the retail labor and utilities are local.
rhapsodic 9y ago
>The closest approximation I can find seems to be a city with a population in excess of 1 million. You must not have put much effort into the search. I have been in many small towns that have had thriving downtowns and vibrant communities. But I've also been in many dead ones, where the local economy was decimated with the demise of a major employer. Maybe that's more the rule than the exception where you're from.
godzillabrennus 9y ago
Royal Oak Michigan has kept a small but vibrant downtown and is going through a large bit of gentrification.
nine_k 9y ago
Re kids: did curfews and age limitations exist in your childhood? I'd love to allow my child to go out for an ice cream all by herself, but at 9, she's not yet legally allowed to be alone on the streets.
- TomK32 9y ago
  The laws vary a lot so check what applies for you http://www.freerangekids.com/laws/ http://www.freerangekids.com/laws/
  - Declanomous 9y ago
    Wow, you have to be 14 to be home alone for a lengthy period of time in Illinois? That's stupid. Maybe like, overnight, or for any meals that require substantial cooking, but my parent left me home alone with my younger brother way before then. It's not very hard to make breakfast or lunch, and any issue that would need a parent to solve is probably something they would have to call 911 or bring us to the hospital for anyways.
    - kasey_junk 9y ago
      “any minor under the age of 14 years whose parent or other person responsible for the minor's welfare leaves the minor without supervision for an unreasonable period of time without regard for the mental or physical health, safety, or welfare of that minor;” Actual text of the law implies a lot worse neglect than the website interprets. In fact if you turn it around it seems shocking. A guardian can leave a 15 year old without regard to their health & well being.
      - burfog 9y ago
        The trouble is that the law is initially interpreted by social workers with a rather sour attitude. Thus "without supervision" could be that you were inside and they were on the lawn, and "unreasonable period of time" could be 5 minutes, and the rest of the law is also met if you assume that there is a pedophile around every corner trying to snatch a kid. Utah recently had to redo some similar laws to prevent them from being abused.
amluto 9y ago
The Bay Area, for all its faults, is full of downtowns like this. Get a bike or a Clipper Card and visit all the little downtowns between Mountain View and SF. You may need to search a bit — the real downtowns are often hidden a couple blocks away from El Camino. And the populations are (individually) far, far less than 1M. As long as you stay out of Palo Alto, you can even find housing for merely crazy prices instead of ludicrous prices. New England has lots of little gems, too.
- drdeadringer 9y ago
  I'd like to toss in Campbell, CA and Cambridge, MA into this mix in terms of walkable downtown. Shelter-pricing aside, walking and transit gets you a good mix of places in each. > real downtowns are often hidden You're not kidding. This is part of why I explore around an area, often on foot. There is no counting how many times I've found That Awesome Place Literally Around The Corner by just walking around that corner that's been "off my radar" for however long it's been and then lamenting that I didn't do that sooner due to the auto-pilot many of us use.
- JKCalhoun 9y ago
  > between Mountain View and SF You conveniently left off Sunnyvale. ;) When I read the article I thought it was describing Sunnyvale — with a once-large downtown, replaced by a mall (now failing) while the sliver of a downtown remaining is a popular spot for evening meals, walks. I haven't been in the area recently but I believe they were planning on razing the mall and putting back a downtown.
Guest9812398 9y ago
Europe has hundreds of options for small towns that are walkable. For example, the below has a population of 4,000, and it's going to probably have 50 restaurants, 50 stores, a school, church, town square, football stadium, market, cafes, marina, and park all within a 5-10 minute walk. https://i.imgur.com/tHvem45.jpg https://i.imgur.com/tHvem45.jpg
- MoBattah 9y ago
  Where's that?
  - Guest9812398 9y ago
    Photo is from Piran, Slovenia.
  - IkmoIkmo 9y ago
    Piran/Portorož in Slovenia. It's certainly not a typical town but rather a tourist town. A bit like Venice, which has 20 million tourists a year for a population of 200k. Portorož probably isn't far off from this population to tourist ratio, but with a population that's 100x smaller. That having been said, it's true that Europe has many walkable cities and they don't even have to be small villages.
tnorthcutt 9y ago
This is a significant part of what attracted us to Fort Collins, Colorado. It's not as small as you're describing, but much of the city is walkable, including the downtown area and dozens of surrounding blocks, along with multiple paved bike paths, etc. It feels more like a city built for humans than most of its size in the states.
ocschwar 9y ago
> [-] And yet, if either my hometown (population 6,000 when I left), or the small town where I went to college (35,000) had retained their downtowns and their walkability, I might still live in them. I don't farm, I don't work in a factory. But I do telecommute, so I can set up shop pretty much anywhere Yeah, but really sucks to have to run up frequent flyer miles for interviews.

s0rce 9y ago

I've seen touristy little towns with walkable downtown areas in USA. Walla Walla, WA and Wallace, ID. come to mind.

ggg9990 9y ago

Those kinds of communities aren’t created by towns full of telecommuting programmers — they are created by diverse economic activity and people out on the street doing their jobs.

qaq 9y ago
Hmm nothing says it can't be created by telecommuting programmers. Get 10K people to pitch in 10K a pop and that's 100 mil to buy land and start a town
- ebiester 9y ago
  It’s been in my head for a while - finding an area with good weather and a farm landowner willing to sell. I would love to find a developer with core competencies - we used to build cities because of common interest. Why can’t we do it today?
  - qaq 9y ago
    No clue why none has done it so far I guess idea for kick starter :)
  - pault 9y ago
    Historically those towns were most likely built around a common economic interest; intersection of trade routes, mining, logging, etc. The town was created because the people were already there. As far as I know artificial communities don't seem very resilient. I guess 10,000 telecommuting programmers could support a pretty robust economy, but it sounds like a bit of a pipe dream, honestly.
    - ebiester 9y ago
      I think a set of programmers seems like a common economic interest. At 10,000, that’s enough that it won't only be telecommuting at some point. You would likely need a fair amount of additional labor. The alternative is finding a struggling city with good bones that is willing to take a chance, but that can introduce all sorts of hostilities.
      - qaq 9y ago
        Starting fresh gives you a lot of interesting options
Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
Kind of. I live in a town with a population of 3,000 which has a town playground, kids whizzing around on bikes, a handful of little local shops (plus four pubs), etc... and yet it's full of telecommuting programmers. The main disadvantage is that property prices are high, largely caused by the real commuters rather than the telecommuters (we have a mainline railway station); and that's meant a slow decline in the number of local shops simply because conversion to residential use is much more lucrative. But we've pretty much stabilised now. This is in the UK, and it's not rare over here - there's quite a niche for slightly boho, close-knit small towns. Hebden Bridge, Stroud and Frome are the best known (populations 4.5k, 12k, 26k respectively) but there are plenty more.
- isostatic 9y ago
  Which town is that? Hebden Bridge I always got the impression was a bit touristy (as well as being the lesbian capital of the country). A bit further south to Marsden, also on a rail line into Manchester and Leeds, is remarkably cheap
im3w1l 9y ago
Well assuming those people out on the streets doing their jobs want to "import" goods, the town needs to "export" something. Code is one possible export.
hinkley 9y ago
No, but if you’re trying to balance your imports and exports get to g some telecommuters certainly helps. Part of what kills small towns is all the money draining out. Big box stores accelerated that because nothing but the retail labor and utilities are local.

rhapsodic 9y ago

>The closest approximation I can find seems to be a city with a population in excess of 1 million. You must not have put much effort into the search. I have been in many small towns that have had thriving downtowns and vibrant communities. But I've also been in many dead ones, where the local economy was decimated with the demise of a major employer. Maybe that's more the rule than the exception where you're from.

godzillabrennus 9y ago

Royal Oak Michigan has kept a small but vibrant downtown and is going through a large bit of gentrification.

nine_k 9y ago

Re kids: did curfews and age limitations exist in your childhood? I'd love to allow my child to go out for an ice cream all by herself, but at 9, she's not yet legally allowed to be alone on the streets.

TomK32 9y ago
The laws vary a lot so check what applies for you http://www.freerangekids.com/laws/ http://www.freerangekids.com/laws/
- Declanomous 9y ago
  Wow, you have to be 14 to be home alone for a lengthy period of time in Illinois? That's stupid. Maybe like, overnight, or for any meals that require substantial cooking, but my parent left me home alone with my younger brother way before then. It's not very hard to make breakfast or lunch, and any issue that would need a parent to solve is probably something they would have to call 911 or bring us to the hospital for anyways.
  - kasey_junk 9y ago
    “any minor under the age of 14 years whose parent or other person responsible for the minor's welfare leaves the minor without supervision for an unreasonable period of time without regard for the mental or physical health, safety, or welfare of that minor;” Actual text of the law implies a lot worse neglect than the website interprets. In fact if you turn it around it seems shocking. A guardian can leave a 15 year old without regard to their health & well being.
    - burfog 9y ago
      The trouble is that the law is initially interpreted by social workers with a rather sour attitude. Thus "without supervision" could be that you were inside and they were on the lawn, and "unreasonable period of time" could be 5 minutes, and the rest of the law is also met if you assume that there is a pedophile around every corner trying to snatch a kid. Utah recently had to redo some similar laws to prevent them from being abused.

amluto 9y ago

The Bay Area, for all its faults, is full of downtowns like this. Get a bike or a Clipper Card and visit all the little downtowns between Mountain View and SF. You may need to search a bit — the real downtowns are often hidden a couple blocks away from El Camino. And the populations are (individually) far, far less than 1M. As long as you stay out of Palo Alto, you can even find housing for merely crazy prices instead of ludicrous prices. New England has lots of little gems, too.

drdeadringer 9y ago
I'd like to toss in Campbell, CA and Cambridge, MA into this mix in terms of walkable downtown. Shelter-pricing aside, walking and transit gets you a good mix of places in each. > real downtowns are often hidden You're not kidding. This is part of why I explore around an area, often on foot. There is no counting how many times I've found That Awesome Place Literally Around The Corner by just walking around that corner that's been "off my radar" for however long it's been and then lamenting that I didn't do that sooner due to the auto-pilot many of us use.
JKCalhoun 9y ago
> between Mountain View and SF You conveniently left off Sunnyvale. ;) When I read the article I thought it was describing Sunnyvale — with a once-large downtown, replaced by a mall (now failing) while the sliver of a downtown remaining is a popular spot for evening meals, walks. I haven't been in the area recently but I believe they were planning on razing the mall and putting back a downtown.

Guest9812398 9y ago

Europe has hundreds of options for small towns that are walkable. For example, the below has a population of 4,000, and it's going to probably have 50 restaurants, 50 stores, a school, church, town square, football stadium, market, cafes, marina, and park all within a 5-10 minute walk. https://i.imgur.com/tHvem45.jpg https://i.imgur.com/tHvem45.jpg

MoBattah 9y ago
Where's that?
- Guest9812398 9y ago
  Photo is from Piran, Slovenia.
- IkmoIkmo 9y ago
  Piran/Portorož in Slovenia. It's certainly not a typical town but rather a tourist town. A bit like Venice, which has 20 million tourists a year for a population of 200k. Portorož probably isn't far off from this population to tourist ratio, but with a population that's 100x smaller. That having been said, it's true that Europe has many walkable cities and they don't even have to be small villages.

tnorthcutt 9y ago

This is a significant part of what attracted us to Fort Collins, Colorado. It's not as small as you're describing, but much of the city is walkable, including the downtown area and dozens of surrounding blocks, along with multiple paved bike paths, etc. It feels more like a city built for humans than most of its size in the states.

ocschwar 9y ago

> [-] And yet, if either my hometown (population 6,000 when I left), or the small town where I went to college (35,000) had retained their downtowns and their walkability, I might still live in them. I don't farm, I don't work in a factory. But I do telecommute, so I can set up shop pretty much anywhere Yeah, but really sucks to have to run up frequent flyer miles for interviews.