8 ms·
Many smaller cities and towns have suffered the loss of vibrant downtowns, but I can't help but wonder if we are misidentifying the causes. Over the last half-
by curtis 8y ago
Many smaller cities and towns have suffered the loss of vibrant downtowns, but I can't help but wonder if we are misidentifying the causes.
Over the last half-century (probably more) we've seen a big part of the economic base for these small cities and downs either disappear or move away. Agriculture used to play a much bigger role in the economy as a whole, and a particularly large role in the economy of many small towns. And manufacturing used but much more distributed across the country in smaller cities and towns. But a lot of those factories have closed down.
As a consequence the tax base in may of these towns and cities didn't go away simply because retail businesses moved out of the city limits. They may have gone away because the entire GDP of the surrounding area dropped.
For reference: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sectors_of_US_Economy_as_Percent_of_GDP_1947-2009.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sectors_of_US_Econom...
- rossdavidh 8y agoI half-agree. You are correct that, if all of the stuff is made or grown elsewhere, local retail will not be enough to keep the local economy in decent shape. But, that does not mean that the process of consolidating retail into remote (mall) chains that are loosely committed to that community, is not also deeply flawed.
- curtis 8y agoI think it's possible that many towns would have benefited from different policies (and I think that's an interesting subject!), but I still think many of them didn't have any real choice.
- nine_k 8y agoIf they had a possibility to develop in a more beneficial way, but could not make that choice, what forced them? Making beneficial choices for local economy and community is basically a job description of local politicians and officials.
- btown 8y agoBut if we don't consolidate retail into mall chains that are loosely committed to that community, it will consolidate into even more-impersonal Amazon warehouses! Wal-Mart is not the local-economy defender we wanted, but it's the one it needs right now! ^ very much /s
- jimmaswell 8y agoBesides arguments about subsidization by social safety nets, Wal-Mart would at least mean local jobs, unlike Amazon.
- bunderbunder 8y agoAnd yet, if either my hometown (population 6,000 when I left), or the small town where I went to college (35,000) had retained their downtowns and their walkability, I might still live in them. I don't farm, I don't work in a factory. But I do telecommute, so I can set up shop pretty much anywhere. And I do have a soft spot for the kind of small town full of character that I spent my childhood roving semi ferally with my friends and our bikes, popping in and out of ice cream shops, chalking up the sidewalks, buying trinkets at the variety store, playing in the town playground, etc. I'd like for my kids to have something like that. The closest approximation I can find seems to be a city with a population in excess of 1 million. Or at least, that's where the sidewalks and community playgrounds are.
- s0rce 8y agoI've seen touristy little towns with walkable downtown areas in USA. Walla Walla, WA and Wallace, ID. come to mind.
- ggg9990 8y agoThose kinds of communities aren’t created by towns full of telecommuting programmers — they are created by diverse economic activity and people out on the street doing their jobs.
- qaq 8y agoHmm nothing says it can't be created by telecommuting programmers. Get 10K people to pitch in 10K a pop and that's 100 mil to buy land and start a town
- ebiester 8y agoIt’s been in my head for a while - finding an area with good weather and a farm landowner willing to sell. I would love to find a developer with core competencies - we used to build cities because of common interest. Why can’t we do it today?
- 8y ago
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> the tax base in may of these towns and cities didn't go away simply because retail businesses moved out of the city limits Cupertino is my hometown. Despite rising incomes and tax receipts, the city has repeatedly failed to cultivate a downtown. Every 10 years, a City Council member decides the reason downtown Cupertino isn't a thing is because it's in the wrong place. So they proceed to open, to great fanfare (and profits, for their buddies in development), a new one. Always disconnected from the old ones. It is a darling for a few years. But then the lack of density kicks in and we end up with another strip mall. In our go-go tech economy, these disparate "downtowns" can inch along. The true pains of this political incompetence won't be felt until the next downturn. By that time, unfortunately, the offending politicians will be in a new job and developers retiring. Local political incompetence has a big part to play in the downfall of America's small towns and small businesses.
- niftich 8y agoI'm not sure Cupertino is a good example, because until the 1960s it was all orchards and fields, and the entire town was built in blocks of subdivisions like your usual checkerboard suburb like Henderson or Chandler. Sunnyvale was the closest real town, with a real main street, a train station, and businesses. Anyone can build 'fake' downtowns. They sort of work too. That's not the issue here at all, though. Cupertino had no commercial core that was left to decline.
- ShabbosGoy 8y ago> Cupertino had no commercial core that was left to decline. You need only look to Vallco to see what an abandoned mall is like. It’s really dystopian in a way.
- JKCalhoun 8y agoI don't know, seems like the coming of malls in general was dystopian.
- DrScump 8y agoYou could argue that Cupertino has a long, narrow "downtown": Stevens Creek Boulevard between the new Main Street complex and the Oaks. One limiting factor is that political downtown (City Hall and the library) is off on its own in what was traditionally a business office complex neighborhood, with no nearby commerce per se. The Orchard shopping center at Bollinger and Blaney was, unsurprisingly, an orchard I played in as a kid.
- maxerickson 8y agoHere the local mill makes more product than ever. It employs about ⅓ the people it did at one time though.
- bsder 8y agoIn addition, the whole "malls are failing" rhetoric is a bit distracting. "Developer owned" malls are mostly failing. Companies like WalMart, Target, CostCo, etc. discovered the same thing that McDonald's did--own the real estate under the building for maximum economic leverage. That will never happen in a downtown, so the big companies are simply not going to go there unless the economics really work out.
- heurist 8y agoStrongTowns has developed an extensive body of work investigating that problem. I'd highly recommend reading/following then, especially as urban development issues gain more traction. Having followed StrongTowns for the last two years, and now seeing the rise in frequency and intensities of discussions around livable communities, mixed use, high density housing, etc, I get the feeling their message is finally starting to be heard and adopted by wider audiences. I'd also personally suggest a recurring donation, even if it's small. (I donate monthly but have no other affiliation with StrongTowns). It's an apolitical movement founded by a civil engineer with the intention of developing stronger communities and fiscally sound towns and cities across the country. It's not solely about urban issues - they actually focus on small towns, though cities play a prominent role. It is also not against suburbs or urban sprawl, though they do describe the issues that those methodologies are hampered by. I think if anything will bring Americans back together, it will be a focus on building stronger, fiscally stable communities under a visionary movement that appeals to any political viewpoint. StrongTowns is a strong contender for that role. For that reason I believe they are worth contributing to.
- jimmaswell 8y agoWhat defines a downtown? My town has what I think is supposed to be a downtown and I don't really like it. I hate street parking (both doing it and the fact that it creates dangerous situations of not being able to see around a corner and making the road too narrow), there are too many pedestrians, and traffic is slow. Something feels very wrong about having to use metered street parking to go to a post office. I like spread-out malls/stores a lot better. I hope they find a way to reverse the trend. Besides simply economic concerns, I think the human factor has to be considered. Malls/mini-malls and countrysides/suburb-like environments are a lot nicer for many (I'd guess most) people. I don't think the fact that the budget balances better on a spreadsheet with more density means it's worth it. Preserving a better way of life is an appropriate case for subsidies. At least drive-thrus probably aren't going anywhere for a while.
- elvinyung 8y agoI noticed most of your complaints are related to using a car :) I would say that in a "real" downtown area, you're not supposed to use a car at all. Not having to allocate land for parking essentially allows businesses to be clustered closer together and be more accessible to everyone, without everyone having to own their own car to get anywhere. To quote Jane Jacobs: > The point of cities is multiplicity of choice. It is impossible to take advantage of multiplicity of choice without being able to get around easily.
- tracker1 8y agoI don't quite get why a nearby parking lot and a relatively short track trolley isn't a more common thing.
- elvinyung 8y agoWell, I think what you're describing is essentially good public transit. Anecdotally, I know that in Toronto some people park their car on the outskirts, and then take transit down to the core.